Can we win the War on Terror?

[Cerberus]

I guess we know who it was that locked it then.

[Living-In-Clip]

Exactly.
Someone got testy when called out on something and locked a perfectly viable thread.
Go figure. ...

With that said, education won\'t help. Deportion won\'t help. Fact is, its part of life now. We can try and cut down on it, but that\'s all.

Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Exactly.
Someone got testy when called out on something and locked a perfectly viable thread.
Go figure. ...

With that said, education won\'t help. Deportion won\'t help. Fact is, its part of life now. We can try and cut down on it, but that\'s all.

Perfectly viable thread???  You call a thread that deteriorated into your petty personal vendetta with me viable?  That is why it was closed - it was no longer about the topic at hand.  I can see this one is heading the same way - thanks LIC! :rolleyes:

Ummmm, delete a few posts and open it up again?  I know you mods have it hard and such, but it shouldn\'t take too much of your precious time.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Perfectly viable thread???  You call a thread that deteriorated into your petty personal vendetta with me viable?  That is why it was closed - it was no longer about the topic at hand.  I can see this one is heading the same way - thanks LIC! :rolleyes:

Oh? Does the perfectly topical debate you were having with me and the other members fall under the category of petty personal vendetta as well? It\'s nice how you closed the thread without stating that you were closing it nor giving any explanation as to why you were closing it. And instead of pacifying the hostile atmosphere of the discussion, you only exacerbated it with your closing post. Good work, moderator.

To the discussion at hand: I disagree with LIC. As I posted in the London bombings thread, I think education CAN help in rooting out acts of terrorism, at least the "jihad" inspired ones. Most of these attackers have a twisted perception of Western culture and the meaning of Islam. If, through education, we could drive this perception out of them (if not out of them, then out of their progeny), we\'ll have in our hands a SLOW but long-term solution. For example, my grandmother in Korea believed and still believes that ALL blacks are uneducated thieves and that I should never approach them if I can help it. Why does she, whom I can vouch to be a VERY good woman, and many others in Korea share this notion? Because they have never interacted with a black person and has let local stereotypes  skew their views. Actually knowing black people and having been educated in a much more cosmopolitan world view, I don\'t share this ignorance. I think the same can be worked out for Islam.

EDIT: I hate run-on sentences.

Geez, I argue with the guy but stop bitching at Giga and focus. Focus people!

Originally posted by GigaShadow
The only way to solve this problem with the War on Islamic Fundamentalism  

Wait wait wait. The "War on Islamic Fundametalism" Giga? Since when? You show me one case where someone from our government has referred to the war in such a manner and I\'ll be shocked. The Bush adminstration is trying it\'s damndest keep from calling it that, to do it\'s best not to turn this into the holy war that some muslims believe it to be.

This escalating name game tends to be the defense of many conservatives who are still grasping at straws for some sort of justification for Iraq. Because the War on Terror in Iraq is failing, do you feel the need to say our military actions are for some greater cause?

[clips]

Originally posted by hyper
Oh? Does the perfectly topical debate you were having with me and the other members fall under the category of petty personal vendetta as well? It\'s nice how you closed the thread without stating that you were closing it nor giving any explanation as to why you were closing it. And instead of pacifying the hostile atmosphere of the discussion, you only exacerbated it with your closing post. Good work, moderator.

To the discussion at hand: I disagree with LIC. As I posted in the London bombings thread, I think education CAN help in rooting out acts of terrorism, at least the "jihad" inspired ones. Most of these attackers have a twisted perception of Western culture and the meaning of Islam. If we could drive out this perception through education if not out of them, then out of their progeny,  then we\'ll have in our hands a SLOW but long-term solution. For example, my grandmother in Korea believed and still believes that ALL blacks are uneducated thieves and that I should never approach them if I can help it. Why does she, whom I can vouch to be a VERY good woman, and many others in Korea share this notion? Because they have never interacted with a black person and has let local stereotypes  skew their views. Actually knowing black people and having been educated in a much more cosmopolitan world view, I don\'t share this ignorance. I think the same can be worked out for Islam.

damn hyper...at least tell your grandmother that i\'am EDUCATED! ...seriously tho, this war is just like the war on drugs like someone stated earlier, it can never be won. if this war was more focused on afganastan (spel) where the person responsible for 9/11 resides, then i\'d be more on board with bush...saddam at one point wanted an honest debate with bush about the so-called wmd\'s...bush denied to even to speak with him....meh i not gonna get off topic with this,..the war on terror cannot be won...period..

Originally posted by Ghettomath
Wait wait wait. The "War on Islamic Fundametalism" Giga? Since when? You show me one case where someone from our government has referred to the war in such a manner and I\'ll be shocked. The Bush adminstration is trying it\'s damndest keep from calling it that, to do it\'s best not to turn this into the holy war that some muslims believe it to be.

 

Our government hasn\'t lableled it that and that is exactly what is wrong.  This isn\'t a war on terror, it is a war on Islamic Fundamentalism.  Tell it for what it is.  A war againt Islamafacism.  Not ISLAM, just the fundamentalists.

This isn\'t a "Holy War".  It is a war against a part of a religion that is bent on destroying our culture.  We are not trying to eradicate Islam (though I have my own opinion on that matter), we are trying to destroy this Wahabist perversion of Islam.  If you destroy that, then you destroy Islamic terrorism.  If all the Muslims who claim that those teachings are a perversion actually stood up and did something about it, the US could pull out of the area much sooner.

Originally posted by hyper
Oh? Does the perfectly topical debate you were having with me and the other members fall under the category of petty personal vendetta as well? It\'s nice how you closed the thread without stating that you were closing it nor giving any explanation as to why you were closing it. And instead of pacifying the hostile atmosphere of the discussion, you only exacerbated it with your closing post. Good work, moderator.

To the discussion at hand: I disagree with LIC. As I posted in the London bombings thread, I think education CAN help in rooting out acts of terrorism, at least the "jihad" inspired ones. Most of these attackers have a twisted perception of Western culture and the meaning of Islam. If, through education, we could drive this perception out of them (if not out of them, then out of their progeny), we\'ll have in our hands a SLOW but long-term solution. For example, my grandmother in Korea believed and still believes that ALL blacks are uneducated thieves and that I should never approach them if I can help it. Why does she, whom I can vouch to be a VERY good woman, and many others in Korea share this notion? Because they have never interacted with a black person and has let local stereotypes  skew their views. Actually knowing black people and having been educated in a much more cosmopolitan world view, I don\'t share this ignorance. I think the same can be worked out for Islam.

EDIT: I hate run-on sentences.

I think the reason was pretty obvious was it not?  LIC whining and bitching about me insulting people when he turns around and insults me as well as pouting over me being a mod - something he can\'t seem to get over. He also called me a racist which I found amusing - NEWSFLASH LIC:  Islam isn\'t a race!

  Also did I mention you were part of the problem with that thread hyper?  No.  You can thank LIC for leading it down the path of closure.  In regards to deleting posts - people whine just as much when their posts get deleted.  Either way you can\'t win.  So it is going to remain closed.  

As for your "solution"...

You can not educate, reason, understand or negotiate with Islamic fundamentalists.  If you try you are labeled as an infidel, a non believer, etc by them.  I really don\'t understand why liberals can\'t grasp this.  These people can not be reasoned with.  They would sooner kill you rather than sit at a table with you.  End of story.

I think by "Islamic fundamentalists" you mean "Islamic extremists." There are large portions of muslims who are fundamentalist, but peaceful.

But if fudamentalists is really what you are after then the US will have to declare a war on Malaysia and :gasp: Saudi Arabia! This reinforces my point that a global War on Terror is too far-reaching, too vague for us to ever acheive victory. Terrorism has no boundaries so how can you fight to contain it?

The only solution I see is fighting the ideology and those who spout it.  

You are correct that the "Global War on Terrorism" is a very misleading name.  Islamic fundamentalism/Islamic extremists - same thing.  The fundies support the extremists by providing them aid, though they don\'t blow themselves up.

Islamic terrorism can be defeated, but mainstream Islam needs to help in this matter.

[Living-In-Clip]

Ummmm, delete a few posts and open it up again? I know you mods have it hard and such, but it shouldn\'t take too much of your precious time.

Hope that is sarcasm, because mods don\'t have it hard.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
The only solution I see is fighting the ideology and those who spout it.  

You are correct that the "Global War on Terrorism" is a very misleading name.  Islamic fundamentalism/Islamic extremists - same thing.  The fundies support the extremists by providing them aid, though they don\'t blow themselves up.

Islamic terrorism can be defeated, but mainstream Islam needs to help in this matter.

No they can\'t. There will always be someone or something to take their place. It\'s part of life now. We need to focus more on domestic security and less on policing the world, such as Iraq.

Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
No they can\'t. There will always be someone or something to take their place. It\'s part of life now. We need to focus more on domestic security and less on policing the world, such as Iraq.

Sure there will always be someone preaching this crap, but it is rampant now in the Middle East and is a definite problem.  By cracking down on this type of ideology, less terrorists, less terrorism.  Saudi Arabia has turned a blind eye to it and ignored it for so long that is has grown into a major problem.  

You can concentrate on domestic security all you want, but if the terrorist factories in the Middle East are pumping out crops of terrorists it will just be a matter of time until they succeed in pulling off another attack in the US.  

Islamic terrorism can be defeated, but a major part of that is to have mainstream Islam fight it in their Mosques.  How can you say that it wouldn\'t work?  If people\'s minds weren\'t being filled with this crap from so many sources their numbers would decline.  For example, the KKK here in the US used to be huge and committed murders in the name of their race and organization.  By rounding up the leaders of the movement who spread the this hate their numbers declined to an insignificant amount.  Today all they can muster is a parade with about 20 particpants where they are outnumbered by counter protesters 20 to 1.  Please don\'t say it can\'t be done, because it can.

For all the problems in Iraq - it is drawing most of these Jihadists there instead of them coming here.  A lot seem to forget that Saddam paid suicide bombers families large sums of money to carry out their attacks in Israel.  He was sponsoring terrorism and it would only have been a matter of time until he was paying them to do it here.

Regarding the excuse that Lefty Ken the London Mayor has now given these terrorists - that being under the thumb of the West for 80 years justifies their attacks and they are angry.  If that were true one would think blacks would have been blowing up things left and right for decades in this country.  I don\'t buy it.

What is this guy still doing in the UK running around freely?

Attacks on UK will continue, radical cleric says

By Gideon Long
Reuters
Friday, July 22, 2005; 10:57 AM

LONDON (Reuters) - Militant Islamists will continue to attack Britain until the government pulls its troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan, one of the country\'s most outspoken Islamic clerics said on Friday.

Speaking 15 days after bombers killed over 50 people in London and a day after a series of failed attacks on the city\'s transport network, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed said the British capital should expect more violence.

"What happened yesterday confirmed that as long as the cause and the root problem is still there ... we will see the same effect we saw on July 7," Bakri said.

"If the cause is still there the effect will happen again and again," he said, adding he had no information about future attacks or contacts with people planning to carry out attacks.

Bakri, a Syrian-born cleric who has been vilified in Britain since 2001 when he praised the September 11 hijackers, said he did not believe the bombings and attempted attacks on London were carried out by British Muslims.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/22/AR2005072200709_pf.html

This is the crap I am talking about.  Why would the UK government let this asshole run around and spout his shit?  Why?