PS3 specs, facts, speculations and rumours !

[Evi]

Originally posted by Unicron!
And imagine if the consumer is forced to buy his games twice if his console is broken and buys a new one

Good point. That would be so stupid. You\'d have to re-purchase your entire library of games.

[Titan]

Originally posted by EviscerationX
Wait...WTF? Does that mean you couldn\'t bring the game to a friend\'s house? And you\'d have to bring the fuggin\' console everywhere you go? That would most certainly blow.

Yeah, and what happens if the console craps out....a lot like what the PS2 did for most people. Like I said, I don\'t see them using this technology..ever.

[Evi]

Sounds like the worst idea ever conceived.

[BizioEE]

The RSX graphics synthesizer is using the G70 architecture, but is one generation ahead !?!

On another note about the G70 architecture, Sony\'s upcoming PlayStation 3 will be using NVIDIA\'s RSX processor that is based on the G70 architecture. A few months ago, some NVIDIA representatives mentioned it would be as powerful as the GeForce 7800 GTX. However during G70 launch briefing, NVIDIA\'s CEO - Jen-Hsun Huang, made a statement that the RSX graphics synthesizer is using the G70 architecture, but is one generation ahead. That could either mean more features, or more parallel processing pipelines, or a combination of both to give the RSX the needed power to see through it\'s useful lifetime in the future when it\'s released. Whatever the case, this sounded a lot more logical to us. After all, the GeForce3 was a fresh product when the XBOX was launched and it had a GPU more powerful than the desktop GeForce3 products.

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles...=1638&pg=4

Sony is so silent...they\'re going to throw a bomb on X360 launch...

Or they are so silent cuz they\'re a bit worried.

Increased clockspeeds on either cpu or gpu would mean ;

- requires to have better/higher yields
- requires more wattage and results in
more heat buildup.

All we can say atm is that Xbox360 is ramping up fine both with the developers and the anticipating audience.

And ow yeah.. Revolution has gotten alot of sympathy even though we haven\'t yet seen a single fvcking Rev game either !

Originally posted by Knotter8
Or they are so silent cuz they\'re a bit worried.

Increased clockspeeds on either cpu or gpu would mean ;

- requires to have better/higher yields
- requires more wattage and results in
more heat buildup.

All we can say atm is that Xbox360 is ramping up fine both with the developers and the anticipating audience.

And ow yeah.. Revolution has gotten alot of sympathy even though we haven\'t yet seen a single fvcking Rev game either !

A few people have speculated that the RSX was only recently finished. That could be the reason why we have no firm information on the RSX yet.

IIRC Sony is shipping the final dev kits next month, so the RSX should be done now.

Developers have hinted we’ll know all in due time.

Btw, I read rumours saying Sony will be showing us something this month to try and steal some thunder from the X360 launch. A few people have been hinting towards Sony talking about the online plans.
I’m starving for information right now so I hope we’ll get to see something new soon.

mmmaybe...

but Sony\'s current DRM scandal, the whole stupid idea of PS3 games only playable on the first PS3 console....

I have a feeling Sony as a company has so many Heads pointing in so many directions that it has become a bit of a steerless ship.

Maybe it doesn\'t affect Sony Computer Entertainment all too much, but things don\'t look all that great atm.

Originally posted by Knotter8
mmmaybe...

but Sony\'s current DRM scandal, the whole stupid idea of PS3 games only playable on the first PS3 console....

I have a feeling Sony as a company has so many Heads pointing in so many directions that it has become a bit of a steerless ship.

Maybe it doesn\'t affect Sony Computer Entertainment all too much, but things don\'t look all that great atm.

I doubt Sony (or Sony BGM USA who this affects) tries to pull anything like that anytime soon, considering the huge PR backlash this “scandal” has caused.

About the patent, I don’t know why that has been brought up by websites. The patent was from 1999 (updated in 2004 though). A feature like that might kill off the PlayStation brand.

The different SCE divisions are now supposed to work closer than ever. IIRC SCEE, SCEA and SCEI will be united under SCE World Wide (Phil Harrison was made the chief govna I believe), the idea is to let developer share software more easily. I remember reading articles about the different divisions fighting amongst their own, I think this is an attempt of Sony to get rid of that because its hurting the PlayStation business.


I think this will be good for SCE.

[BizioEE]

NVidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang stated during Sony\'s pre-show press conference at E3 2005 that the RSX will be much more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultra video cards combined. Current industry speculation is that the RSX may be based on the G70 architecture used in NVidia\'s GeForce 7 Series GPUs which were introduced in June of 2005, but implementing many more parallel pixel and shader pipelines than any consumer PC GPU (NVidia\'s top-of-the-line GeForce 7800 GTX currently contains 24 pixel and 8 vertex pipelines), and clocked higher than any PC GPU based on G70 (with speculation that the RSX chip will be reworked using the new G71 architecture topping 650-700mhz and an improved vertex pipeline support, as well as an increased 512mb memory) (again, the 7800 GTX is clocked at 430 MHz, compared to 550 MHz for the RSX). An nVidia spokesperson was quoted in PlayStation Magazine as saying that the 7800GTX "shares a lot of similar inner workings with the PS3\'s RSX chip, only it (the 7800GTX) isn\'t nearly as fast (as the RSX)."

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=47985

it\'s interesting, and I\'m too curious ...who knows...

fasty, read the entire post of this guy and tell me what you think...he does great posts and seems to know a lot...

Originally posted by BizioEE
http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=47985

it\'s interesting, and I\'m too curious ...who knows...

fasty, read the entire post of this guy and tell me what you think...he does great posts and seems to know a lot...

Hmm interesting post.. It goes beyond what I know.

The 1.8 TFLOP figure Sony/nVidia announced is comparable to the 1 TFLOP figure MS/ATI released for the Xbox 360. These figures does not show how many of these flops are programmable. I\'m not sure if that guy understands that. I think he\'s trying to get the G70 numbers up to the 1.8TFLOP figure but instead using programmable flops.

1.8TFLOP vs 1TFLOP are just PR numbers.

I think the "real" programmable FLOP number of the RSX is somewhere around ~400 Billion for RSX and ~240 Billion for the Xenos.

Still RSX is a little mystery. I hope we learn more about it SOON.

EDIT: Read xbdestroya\'s posts in that thread. I think they\'re pretty good.

The only thing we know for sure is that Nvidia surprised friend and foe with the 110Nm 7800GTX 512mb @ 580/1750 mhz clocks.

That just shows there\'s ALOT of stretch in G70\'s clockspeeds.

RSX is also most likely to be fabricated on 90Nm slab, so that will even have better thermal characteristics.

My only big question mark is the 128bits memory controller on RSX

Originally posted by BizioEE
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25109&page=2
Seven, Fastson and anyone what do you think ?

I think the RSX will be much more than an overclock G70 based processor !

Personally? Not a chance at all. Sony has enough of a "paper advantage" to claim with or without a dual RSX. Also, RSX is already a huge chip that produces a lot of heat - and that in itself poses a few problems such as cooling measures that have to fit within a small case (remember, it\'s a consumer device, not a PC-card that\'ll go into a big PC case). Also, double GPU would be very expensive - if you already have the "paper spec" advantage, why waste money on a potential that may or may not help you? It\'s more important to Sony to get PS3 out in Spring with enough units they can get and top-notch software. If you see any performance upgrades, expect higher clocks on CELLs side but not more.

[BizioEE]

Originally posted by seven
Personally? Not a chance at all. Sony has enough of a "paper advantage" to claim with or without a dual RSX. Also, RSX is already a huge chip that produces a lot of heat - and that in itself poses a few problems such as cooling measures that have to fit within a small case (remember, it\'s a consumer device, not a PC-card that\'ll go into a big PC case). Also, double GPU would be very expensive - if you already have the "paper spec" advantage, why waste money on a potential that may or may not help you? It\'s more important to Sony to get PS3 out in Spring with enough units they can get and top-notch software. If you see any performance upgrades, expect higher clocks on CELLs side but not more.

let\'s wait and see...I\'m just too curious to know everything about PS3...

[BizioEE]

Originally posted by fastson
Hmm interesting post.. It goes beyond what I know.

...Still RSX is a little mystery. I hope we learn more about it SOON.

EDIT: Read xbdestroya\'s posts in that thread. I think they\'re pretty good.

oh yeah !

Well, I kind of did not want to be the one to make a thread like this, but then again it is something I want to discuss. We\'ve been going over it to some extent in the \'PS3 spec upgrade\' thread but I\'d like to isolate focus onto the RSX alone, and what some recent developments with the G70 might mean for it.

I wanted to post some insights last night to get discussion rolling but thought I might as well take the time to work it into a full article, which I have since done. Anyway to keep the discussion to the things in which I have the most interest, here are the relevent RSX \'extrapolation\' parts, rather than re-posting:


Quote:
...First and foremost, for anyone that has been wondering whether or not it would be possible for Sony to reach it\'s stated goal of 550 MHz with RSX, this release should put those fears firmly to rest. Not only has NVidia been able to do it with a 110nm chip (RSX will be 90nm), they have done it without any of the advanced low-k and silicon-on-insulator (SOI) technologies Sony will be using. In fact since the first leaks of the GTX512\'s performance began to emerge a week ago, the tenor of the discussion has changed noticeably from wondering whether Sony would meet the 550 MHz clock in the first place to wondering how much they might exceed it by.

Unfortunately, it\'s not as simple as that. Remember that although PC cards can have relatively large cooling solutions attached and benefit from operation within the spacious confines (comparatively) of a PC, the heat and power restrictions placed on RSX will be much more severe. There is no doubt at this point that RSX could be clocked well beyond 550 MHz, but that doesn\'t mean it will be. Low-k and SOI will reduce power requirements (and thus heat) by a good bit, as will the move to a 90nm process, but remember applied voltage will play a very large role in determining just how \'hot\' the chip will run. With a stated goal of 550 MHz and an architectural base with seeming room for speed, Sony will certainly have some options open to them. At the end of the day though, expect them to clock the RSX at the highest clock achievable at the same voltage at which they can comfortably reach 550 MHz. Maybe this means 550, maybe it means 560, maybe it means 600 MHz - who knows? Of course it can work in reverse, too. If Sony finds that going from 530 or 540 MHz to 550 is a full step in voltage, they may just opt to clock it a couple of MHz lower and save on power and heat. Indeed due to yield issues with the original EmotionEngine, Kutaragi launched the PS2 with a larger power supply and CPU voltage than he had originally desired, something which let\'s us know that such concerns feature prominently in SCE\'s thinking.

Increased clockspeeds aren\'t the only thing that we can be hopeful of receiving in terms of PS3 upgrades though. With ATI\'s new x1800 cards and the new GTX512, we are seeing a new class of GDDR3 memory entering the fray. 1.1ns RAM modules from Samsung and others have the potential to reliably reach speeds of 1800 MHz (DDR) and are being featured prominently in all of these new cards. Such memory was not available at the time of the XBox 360 and Sony PS3 E3 announcements, when the best memory available was indeed the GDDR3 memory they announced with. With it\'s later launch, Sony now has the opportunity to upgrade the class of GDDR3 it is using in the PS3 should it choose to do so. At what we can only assume would be a nominal increased cost over the memory presently slated to be used, RSX would gain access to greater memory bandwidth, something that has been seen by some as a potential bottleneck. This is not to say that they will of course, but the option is there where it wasn\'t before.

To end, some of the most exciting possibilities concerning the RSX don\'t come from analysis of the G70 itself at all, but from talk of certain changes the 90nm revision of G70 is rumored to feature. In addition to theorizing that the 90nm revision of the chip will sport a full eight pixel quads (32 pixel pipes) and 10 vertex shaders, Josh Walrath at Penstar Systems indicates that NVidia may be reworking the anti-aliasing unit in the 90nm revision in order to allow for multi-sample anti-aliasing and HDR lighting to be implemented concurrently. There is also talk that texture filtering may be raised back up to pre-NV40 series levels. If true, we might expect any or all of these architectural improvements to find their way into the RSX - something that all those anticipating the PS3 should find fairly exciting.

At the moment all of the above is all speculation. But with G70 our only tangible hardware lead into what RSX may eventually turn out to be, at the very least it is informed speculation.

Earlier this year Sony announced that final dev kits will begin shipping to PS3 developers this December, and that those dev kits will include functional RSX chips. It\'s hard right now in this information void we find ourselves to say whether those dev kits are getting set to ship or not - indeed we don\'t even have full confirmation that RSX has even taped out - but perhaps once those development kits do start shipping, we will gain a little more insight into just what exactly the RSX is...  

http://psinext.e-mpire.com/index.php?categoryid=3&m_articles_articleid=264

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25664


This is for you Fasty

Wow that was an interesting read. Some nice speculation there. I like this part

In addition to theorizing that the 90nm revision of the chip will sport a full eight pixel quads (32 pixel pipes) and 10 vertex shaders, Josh Walrath at Penstar Systems indicates that NVidia may be reworking the anti-aliasing unit in the 90nm revision in order to allow for multi-sample anti-aliasing and HDR lighting to be implemented concurrently. There is also talk that texture filtering may be raised back up to pre-NV40 series levels. If true, we might expect any or all of these architectural improvements to find their way into the RSX - something that all those anticipating the PS3 should find fairly exciting.

I’m trying not to get my hopes up, but.. I like the sound of that.

Thanks for posting that, Bizio.


Oh and about the PS3 copy protection stuff, SCEE has made a statement.

Sony responds to PlayStation 3 DRM rumor

Sony has dispelled the rumor that the PlayStation 3 would make use of a new DRM system that would prevent gamers from playing used games. A SCEE spokesperson recently stated, “this is false speculation… PlayStation 3 software will not be copy protected to a single machine but will be playable on any PlayStation 3 console.” Rumor extinguished.

http://joystiq.com/entry/1234000213068073/

Happy days.