israel & hezbollah...

hmmm...maybe it was just a bad idea to put israel in the middle of all those arab countries in the first place?......fast, whatever the case may be,...it\'s clear that the pals and everybody else in that region don\'t want to compromise..

Actually, I think its both sides who are unwilling to compromise right now. Or maybe you meant that when you said everybody?

most have clearly stated that they want israel out of the entire region...as i\'ve stated before both sides have their moments, but when you have 14 yr old palestine kids blowin\' themselves up on a bus,...and their parents reinforce it, something is wrong with that picture...how can you negotiate with people that will strap a bomb to themselves on a whim?

Sure, the people who blow themselves up are fanatics, desperate fanatics. Suicide bombings is one of the most effective weapons they have, if these people had the same weapons Israel or Hezbollah has I bet they would use those instead.

But remember how the Palestinians live, they are closed off from the rest of the world. Nothing gets in or out without Israel’s permission. They are prisoners in their own towns. Some parts of the towns lack electricity thanks to Israel blowing up the power plants (which Europe paid for mind you), no running water etc.
Could these living conditions added to the constant attacks birth such fanatics? But I also see Israels POV, the wall has kept suicide bombers out, at least to a degree.

However, I believe you must negotiate with these people, Hamas. There is no other way, that or exterminate the whole people. As we have seen, you can not end something like this with military might.
How many times have Israel occupied Gaza? Cleared the streets.. they are still there.

When Israel entered Lebanon they held their banner high “We will wipe them out!”, this was not achieved and they might have learned that military might is far from everything.

This is what I believe anyways.

Israel is no saint in this at all but if i had to look at who is the real aggressor here, i\'d have to say it\'s the pals and hezbollah,...they were the one\'s who started this whole charade....

Its so mixed up everything, its unclear who started what. But this last war or crisis didn’t start 1 month ago, it has been going on for many many years.
What Hezbollah did when all this started has connections way back. You see, Israel still holds some of Lebanon. Hezbollah was created to drive the Israelis out of Lebanon, most of the land was given back but Israel still occupies some parts, they also hold several thousand of Lebanese prisoners. Hezbollah wants Israel out of the last remaing territories and the prisoners freed.
Also, just a few weeks prior Israel repeatedly violated Lebanese airspace with fighter jets, this is not uncommon, they repeatedly violate sovereign nations airspace.
And if its true what some newspapers are saying, that all this was planned from the beginning by Israel, I think even the slightest thing could have triggered this whole mess.

did you see the video with those people firing rockets within a heavily populated civilian area?,..then when israel fires back, THEY get blamed for the death and destruction?...

There are many examples of wrong doings by both sides. UN bombing for example, or other residential buildings hit near Beirut.
Btw, if you\'re referring to the Qana bombings which killed several children, AFAIK Israel never released a video of Hezbollah shooting rockets from that location. The location they showed (from what I remember) were from a different part of Qana, the outskirts of Quana from what I remember, not the location that was later bombed. Also the video they showed was several days old.
Or has there been another video released of that event?

What I hope, is that Israel has learned something form this. They got a good smack on the nose, the gung ho mentality should have shattered I hope.
Let the UN control the boarder, and I hope they are up to keeping both sides from starting this shit again, but I’m used to seeing the UN let me down so my hopes are not that high.

You see, Israel still holds some of Lebanon. Hezbollah was created to drive the Israelis out of Lebanon, most of the land was given back but Israel still occupies some parts, they also hold several thousand of Lebanese prisoners.

"something" farm. Was thought to belong to Syria, but the Syrians acknoledge it as lebonese.

They struck gaza yesterday and today. What did the palestineans do since the cease fire? I haven\'t heard.

Israel keeps kidnapped offcials and militants as well so don\'t point the dirty end of the stick too quickly.

Israel threatened Wednesday to widen the conflict over the abduction of one of its soldiers, sending thousands of troops into Gaza, arresting a Palestinian Cabinet minister and buzzing the summer home of Syria\'s president, who is blamed for harboring Hamas leaders.

No deaths or injuries were reported in the incursion, launched early Wednesday in southern Gaza. But Palestinians filled up on basic supplies after warplanes knocked out electricity, raising the specter of a humanitarian crisis. The Hamas-led government warned of "epidemics and health disasters" because of damaged water pipes to central Gaza and the lack of power to pump water.  

Israel\'s concern goes beyond the rescue of the soldier and the negative precedent abducting soldiers would set. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert\'s government is alarmed by the firing of homemade rockets on Israeli communities around Gaza and support for Hamas in the Arab world, especially from Syria.

In a clear warning to Syrian President Bashar Assad, Israeli airplanes flew over his seaside home near the Mediterranean port city of Latakia in northwestern Syria, military officials confirmed, citing the "direct link" between his government and Hamas. Israeli television reports said four planes were involved in the low-altitude flight, and that Assad was there at the time.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/28/D8IHGQH00.html

As far as Israel "kidnapping" officials (of the terrorist group Hamas and Hezbollah) and militants ie. terrorists I don\'t see the problem with it.

"something" farm. Was thought to belong to Syria, but the Syrians acknoledge it as lebonese.

Myth

"Israel still has not satisfied the UN\'s requirements to withdraw completely from Lebanon because of its illegal occupation of Shebaa Farms."

Fact

Despite the UN ruling that Israel completed its withdrawal from southern Lebanon (UN, June 18, 2000), Hizballah and the Lebanese government insist that Israel still holds Lebanese territory in eastern Mount Dov, a 100-square-mile, largely uninhabited patch called Shebaa Farms. This claim provides Hizballah with a pretext to continue its activities against Israel. Thus, after kidnapping three Israeli soldiers in that area, it announced that they were captured on Lebanese soil.

Israel, which has built a series of observation posts on strategic hilltops in the area, maintains that the land was captured from Syria; nevertheless, the Syrians have supported Hizballah\'s claim. According to the Washington Post, the controversy benefits each of the Arab parties. "For Syria, it means Hizballah can still be used to keep the Israelis off balance; for Lebanon, it provides a way to apply pressure over issues, like the return of Lebanese prisoners still held in Israeli jails. For Hezbollah, it is a reason to keep its militia armed and active, providing a ready new goal for a resistance movement that otherwise had nothing left to resist" (Washington Post, January 30, 2001).

In January 2005, the UN Security Council adopted a resolution condemning violence along the Israel-Lebanon border and reasserted that the Lebanese claim to the Shebaa farms area is "not compatible with Security Council resolutions."

and in case you are confused about Hezbollah\'s intentions:

“If they go from Sheba\'a, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine...[Jews] can go back to Germany or wherever they came from.”
— Hezbollah spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin

That still doesnt make it fact that the land was captured from syrians or whether it belongs to lebanon. That\'s seems to be up in the air.

Whats exactly wrong with the 48 borders?

You ignore the whole "[Jews] can go back to Germany or wherever they came from." line.  Basically the captured land (captured after Israel was invaded), is used as a buffer zone to keep those interested in Jewish annihilation away from the border.  The UN will help a bit, but they will need to have generous rules of engagement and have to be willing to fight if they realistically expect to make a difference in the area.

Everytime Israel concedes anything, for any reason, the surrounding militant groups claim a victory, say that their cause is working, and make fresh demands.  The anti-semite views you espouse I find incredibly disturbing, since as far as I can every offensive act that Israel takes is in response to another\'s acts or threats.

I think on this issue we\'re probably going to have to agree to disagree, since were clearly starting off from such different viewpoints.

"something" farm. Was thought to belong to Syria, but the Syrians acknoledge it as lebonese.

Ah, yep.

Btw, good to see you back, luckee.. You too Giga.

Whats exactly wrong with the 48 borders?

Ask the Arabs they are the ones that destroyed them.  If you look at a 1948 map of the area you can see the PALS had the best land and a majority of what was Palestine.

Fatal has a very valid point about the land Israel now holds that was not part of the 1948 boundary.  If you look back you will see that once Egypt made peace with Israel and founded diplomatic ties with them they gave the Sinai back to Egypt even though vast quantities of oil were discovered there - they even dismantled Jewish settlements there.  Syria took the opposite approach by calling for the destruction of Israel, failing to recognize them as a state and sponsoring terrorist groups.  Why should they give it back to a country that threatens their existance?

It is too late to go back to the 1948 borders unless God himself came down and threatened to Sodam and Gamora anyone who violated the peace.

And to lighten the mood a little I present Women of the IDF:

http://israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?t=13

Some are hidious, but quite a few are pretty damn hot and I want to know why their women can wear such tight uniforms and ours can\'t.

Meh, avarage. I\'m used to better.

There are some incredibly good looking israeli chicks. I met one such in so.beach 2-3years ago..talk about smokin. No gag reflex either

You ignore the whole "[Jews] can go back to Germany or wherever they came from." line.  Basically the captured land (captured after Israel was invaded), is used as a buffer zone to keep those interested in Jewish annihilation away from the border.  The UN will help a bit, but they will need to have generous rules of engagement and have to be willing to fight if they realistically expect to make a difference in the area.

Everytime Israel concedes anything, for any reason, the surrounding militant groups claim a victory, say that their cause is working, and make fresh demands.  The anti-semite views you espouse I find incredibly disturbing, since as far as I can every offensive act that Israel takes is in response to another\'s acts or threats.

I think on this issue we\'re probably going to have to agree to disagree, since were clearly starting off from such different viewpoints.

Probably b/c I dont give a shit where they go or stay. I was just asking a question about the 48 border.

Please point out my anti-semitic remarks.

Interesting.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,432054,00.html

From rockets to reconstruction: the Islamic militant group Hezbollah has quickly switched its priorities from fighting Israeli troops to helping with reconstruction efforts in southern Lebanon. Hardworking, well organized and not about to disarm or retreat, they are impressing local residents.

Going for a majority party, ay Hassan?

The orders from Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah were very clear, but militia commander Suliman couldn\'t carry them out this time. The head of the Shiite extremist group told his fighters by radio on Saturday that as part of the cease-fire agreement starting this week they were to switch from military camouflage to civilian clothing. Suliman would have gladly obeyed, but there was just one problem.

"Unfortunately I only have one pair of trousers," says the Hezbollah veteran while grinning embarrassedly. "What can I do?"

Anyway, I hope the build up is speedy and that the country can remain stable. On the 31st of August an International donor conference for Lebanon will be held in Stockholm.

Beirut was once called the Paris of the middle east.

Views would be what I said, however, I do regret that choice of words, Luckee (I suppose "Probably b/c I dont give a shit where they go or stay." is more apathetic than anti).  I think better would have been to say I dislike that you are defending terrorists or their actions, and as I\'ve stated before, I can\'t really look back and find an act that Israel has done where they weren\'t reacting to a hostile act.

I don\'t really see this as much of a \'middle of the fence\' issue, to me one side is clearly morally superior to the other, especially when you look at the stated political/global goals for each side.  In the other posts in here is explained why Israel couldn\'t possibly have given back all the land siezed after they were invaded to countries unwilling to concede their right to exist.

IMO Hezbollah is the winner in terms of prestige/public views (in the area), Israel is the winner in terms of arms/armnament/damage, and t he only real loser is Lebanon, which has to once again rebuild after a war.  Hopefully the moderates in the country will stand up to Hezbollah and disarm it, so that the only military power in the country is the state\'s own army.

That\'s the one thing I don\'t understand. Terrorists don\'t rebuild. They could just use that money for more "evil" if they were just simply a terror organization. Some may argue it is to get support,  but these terror groups around dont really seem to give a shit about image as thousands are always willing to die. Whether they do fine things in their community or not won\'t really change how people in their land look at them.

I really think they are bidding to eventually take lebanon over in 20 years or so.