The big PS3 PAL delay

Some are funny.  Looks more and more like this launch will mirror the PS2 launch.  I\'m so glad I locked up my PS3 way early on with a pre-order, I\'ll be able to scalp it for lots of money, help pay the Christmas bills.

I am beginning to think that holding off on the Ps3 for a while, and sticking with my 360 (which i\'ve had for 8 months) is a better idea, until Sony works out the kinks. There could be lots of blu-ray problems.

[Paul2]

From what I\'ve been hearing is that waiting around for the PS3 is gonna pretty common.

"Former Sony employee Mark DeLoura responded and tried to defend Blu-ray, but did admit that load times will take longer.

“Admittedly, Blu-Ray looks dicey from several non-capacity angles. Blu-Ray movies require a 1.5x Blu-Ray drive, or 54Mbits/second. Sony announced that PS3 uses a 2x BD drive, which is 72Mbits/second or 9MB/second. The Xbox 360 uses a 12x DVD, which should give it about 16MB/second. That is significantly faster for games and will result in shorter load times. And that 12x DVD drive should be a whole lot cheaper. (Note that the PS3 drive will do 8x DVD, and even that is faster than 2x BD.)”

The PS3 just can’t seem to get a break in terms of publicity and this is just another shot to be thrown at Sony, the PS3, and the Blu-ray medium."

Actually, that quotes from a former Sony employee is a little misleading.

Here is a Link of what I mean...

The internet is being massacred by Sony-hating trolls

That\'s pretty true. There\'s a lot of anti-Sony people online.
 
These are real people who won\'t be supporting Sony in stores, but I wonder what kind of influence they\'ll have over people who haven\'t followed the news.
 
The people who right now want the next PlayStation just because it\'s a PlayStation and may not even know that it\'s going to cost at least half a grand.

Well, I can tell you guys one thing for free, here in South Africa (we fall under Europe PAL for gaming) we are all pissed off with Sony and mojority of the people have decided to rather support the wii60.

Now, if the news is as well known in Africa, can you just imagine the rest of the world?

Too bad Sony has me by the balls with certain developers and franchises.

Polyphony, Team ICO, Naughty Dog.. You cant play their games on any other platform.

I wouldn\'t sweat it. I\'m a Sony fan and I thought I\'d never miss this launch. Sony just made it easier for me to wait.

From what I\'ve been hearing is that waiting around for the PS3 is gonna pretty common.

It really isn’t that simple it seems.

360s drive is 12x, yep.. But if the game is pressed on a DVD9 disc (which the majority of the 360 titles are) the maximum read speed drops to 8x.
And since 360 has a CAV drive, it only reaches 12x (SL) or 8x (DL) on the outer edges of the disc, because that’s where it spins the fastest.

A 2x Blu-Ray drive with a BD25 (single layer disc) would actually outperform the drive in the 360, because the BD drive is a CLV drive, so it will keep an constant read speed even if it reads from the inner part of the disc, so the read speed is a constant 72Mbps while a DVD drive goes between 54 and ~130 Mbps for single layer, the maximum speed for a DL disc would be 86.4 Mbps which would only be reached on the outer parts of the disc.

Also since Blu-Ray has more storage space, devs can duplicate data and shorten seek times which will lower loading times.
The space for duplicate data will become less and less on a DVD9 disc if the games keep on growing, that means longer load times.

Even if BR was slower I dont see why PS3 could have a disadvandage over 360. PS3 can also play DVDs at the same speed as the 360\'s. Or am I wrong?

It really isn’t that simple it seems.

360s drive is 12x, yep.. But if the game is pressed on a DVD9 disc (which the majority of the 360 titles are) the maximum read speed drops to 8x.
And since 360 has a CAV drive, it only reaches 12x (SL) or 8x (DL) on the outer edges of the disc, because that’s where it spins the fastest.

Well, I\'m not anti PS3 perse. It\'s just that Sony does need to get it\'s PS3 act together asap. This means ;

- having sufficient PS3 available within a competitive timeframe
- showing evidence to the world that PS3 games stomp both XB360 games and PC games in terms of eyecandy, physics gameplay and eyecandy

I still believe both points might be possible but at this point in time the PS3, as a format, doesn\'t seem all too competent in convincing any gamer.

[Paul2]

It really isn’t that simple it seems.

360s drive is 12x, yep.. But if the game is pressed on a DVD9 disc (which the majority of the 360 titles are) the maximum read speed drops to 8x.
And since 360 has a CAV drive, it only reaches 12x (SL) or 8x (DL) on the outer edges of the disc, because that’s where it spins the fastest.

A 2x Blu-Ray drive with a BD25 (single layer disc) would actually outperform the drive in the 360, because the BD drive is a CLV drive, so it will keep an constant read speed even if it reads from the inner part of the disc, so the read speed is a constant 72Mbps while a DVD drive goes between 54 and ~130 Mbps for single layer, the maximum speed for a DL disc would be 86.4 Mbps which would only be reached on the outer parts of the disc.

Also since Blu-Ray has more storage space, devs can duplicate data and shorten seek times which will lower loading times.
The space for duplicate data will become less and less on a DVD9 disc if the games keep on growing, that means longer load times.

Wow.  Very well said.

I didn\'t realize about the maximum read speed for xbox360 for dual layers DVD drop to 8x.  So that means many xbox360 games that uses dual layers DVD will have a read speed slightly slower than ps3 on most part of the disc until a small portion of the outer edge where xbox360 is slightly faster than ps3.

You also pointed out something I also didn\'t realize about duplicate data on Blu Ray discs which shorten seek times and which will also lower load times.

And of course, I would like to add somethings too.  Both ps3 versions will have a HDD, so that means even lesser load times compare to the core version of xbox360 which doesn\'t come with a hdd.  Also, the 2x read speed of ps3 blu ray will be much quieter than 8x or 12x xbox360 dvd-rom.

Even if BR was slower I dont see why PS3 could have a disadvandage over 360. PS3 can also play DVDs at the same speed as the 360\'s. Or am I wrong?

DVD is 8x maximum for PS3. 360 is 12x/8x (SL/DL).

Knotter8: Agreed. Both will come over time. Sony expects the supply to be 1.2 million units per month after November (sure :rolleyes: ), and the graphics will naturally improve over time, just like they did for PS2, Xbox, GC, 360 and so on.

I predict the first really eye-popping game to be Heavenly Sword, out sometime in Q1-Q2 2007, because IMO the release games don’t really show a difference between 360 and PS3 (well, maybe in fps they will).

So that means many xbox360 games that uses dual layers DVD will have a read speed slightly slower than ps3 on most part of the disc until a small portion of the outer edge where xbox360 is slightly faster than ps3.

Yes, the CAV 360 drive will have a slower transfer speed compared to a CLV BD-drive when the game is pressed on a DVD9.

Both ps3 versions will have a HDD, so that means even lesser load times compare to the core version of xbox360 which doesn\'t come with a hdd. Also, the 2x read speed of ps3 blu ray will be much quieter than 8x or 12x xbox360 dvd-rom.

Since the HDD is standard on all PS3 systems, all games can take advantage of it. Cache of different data should help load times greatly (IIRC, GT:HD had a load time of less than 4 seconds when it was demoed at E3)
And yes, the 2x BD drive should be less loud than the 360 drive. Sony has said that the system sound level is around 29dB (comparable to PS2 Slim), if that’s when a game is running or not they haven’t said.

Ouch, so they\'ve slashed the launch figures a further 75%.... Now launching with 400k consoles in NA and 100k consoles in Japan.  

These things are going to be selling on Ebay for like 2-3 grand at launch, methinks.

Sony is still stubbornly clinging to the 6 million shipped by end of fiscal year stance, but I wonder if that\'s really possible, and if they even have that much control over the blue laser diode creation process.

Sony talks about the reduction

*edit* today\'s update:

When it comes to PS3 launch supply the sky is not falling, says Dave Karraker, SCEA\'s newly appointed head of corporate communications. Naturally, Sony\'s putting the best face possible on a situation that\'s not optimal, but the exec claims that there will be more PS3 supply at launch than Xbox 360 had.

"By the end of the year, we will have..more than double what Microsoft sold through of Xbox 360 [in 2005], explained Karraker as reported by Gamespot. "The supply we have at launch is comparable to what was available for the PlayStation 2, not Xbox 360," he continued. "The total allocation for units in North America...is just less than what we had for PS2 and more than Microsoft had for Xbox 360."

....

More HERE.

So it seems that Sony wants to ship 3 million (360 shipped 1.5 in 2005) by the end of the year... a lofty goal considering their launch numbers now, we\'ll have to see how it plays out.  I wish I knew the numbers for launch day with the 360, did they really have less than 400k consoles in NA?

Looking back, Europe gets the shaft with this launch compared to the 360 launch, but the rest of the delayed world gets the same treatment (Remember the \'global 360 launch\' was only mostly global).

Launch for the 360:
November 22, 2005 in United States, Canada and Puerto Rico
December 2, 2005 in Europe
December 10, 2005 in Japan
February 2, 2006 in Mexico and Colombia
February 24, 2006 in South Korea
March 16, 2006 in Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan
March 23, 2006 in Australia and New Zealand after a 3-week delay.
September 23, 2006 in South Africa, Chile, India, Brazil, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, and Slovakia.

Launch for PS3:
November 17, 2006 in Canada, US, Japan.  (Puerto Rico?)
March 2007 in Europe
?????? 2007 in the rest?

Somehow Sony always finds a way to fuck over Europe. I\'ll stick to Microsoft this time, at least they actually try to make it attractive to buy their stuff.