Smash Bros Brawl perfect score from Famitsu

You have a point Sublime.  It\'s just that games like SF, VF, and Tekken have a huge legacy of tournament play with players doing crazy things such as cataloging the number of frames per each move so they now what move can counter what at high level play.  I\'m not sure if SSB is that "deep" yet.

Here are some favorite Tekken vids of mine:

Qudans (Korea) vs Mainstreet Ryu (Japan)
Knee (Korea) vs Mishimaster (Japan)

every game has its level of hardcore...

SSBM is just the same but why does it always gotta be NO ITEM NO ANYTHING FINAL DESTINATION!!!

its basically gotta be stripped and dumbed down or its broken as hell... so yea on hardcore lvl it fails imo

gives me SF3
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fx3EvFEOkig  make sure to watch it till the last match - amazing fight - prolly most popular sf3 vid of all time

or Guilty Gear XX: Slash and ill show you stuff
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JSsJTx7brXM&feature=related

SSBM has the same amount of crazy frame timings as games like guilty gear and VF imo so i wouldn\'t see why a grabfest match is very impressive

but yea watch some EVO matchs of all the above games and you will see there is plenty of skill and top tier gaming on all of them - pick the style of gameplay you like and be happy no one will ever agree to "this fighting game > all"

You have a point Sublime.  It\'s just that games like SF, VF, and Tekken have a huge legacy of tournament play with players doing crazy things such as cataloging the number of frames per each move so they now what move can counter what at high level play.  I\'m not sure if SSB is that "deep" yet.

Here are some favorite Tekken vids of mine:

Qudans (Korea) vs Mainstreet Ryu (Japan)
Knee (Korea) vs Mishimaster (Japan)

At last some people who know what they are talking about.

No offense THX, but I fell asleep during those Tekken videos. They are simply boring.

None taken  You have to play Tekken to appreciate how hard a wave/lightdash, EWGF, just frame move, or taunt break combo is... among other things.  There are flashier videos that would show off some crazy throws and combos but these show off pure skill imo.

[Jumpman]

I don\'t think Sublime or THX would take kindly to your band wagoning. You\'re whole argument is basically "I know you are but what am I" so yeah continue to post retarded one liners making yourself look worse every time for our amusement.

DANCE MONKEY

every game has its level of hardcore...

SSBM is just the same but why does it always gotta be NO ITEM NO ANYTHING FINAL DESTINATION!!!

its basically gotta be stripped and dumbed down or its broken as hell... so yea on hardcore lvl it fails imo

Items ruin the skill factor...that\'s why they are taken out. Can\'t have some legendary pokemon fall into someone\'s lap and 1 shot someone at 50%. And Final D isn\'t the only stage, its mainly just used in friendly battles and thats why fights with it on youtube are popular. In normal tournies you counter pick certain levels. One thing that Melee has that a lot of fighters don\'t is diversity in levels used in high level play. Different levels, different strategies, etc. As you can see in the 3rd fight the marth player knew when the level would morph and used it to get a sick last kill.

THX

You have a point Sublime. It\'s just that games like SF, VF, and Tekken have a huge legacy of tournament play with players doing crazy things such as cataloging the number of frames per each move so they now what move can counter what at high level play. I\'m not sure if SSB is that "deep" yet.

You have to play Tekken to appreciate how hard a wave/lightdash, EWGF, just frame move, or taunt break combo is... among other things. There are flashier videos that would show off some crazy throws and combos but these show off pure skill imo.

I will continue to stand by my statement that Melee at high level play is the deepest out there. Just looking at MLG tournament results (once the biggest tournament for the game, and again Smash was 2nd behind Halo 2 in tournament play for a long time), there\'s always 7 people who continually rape the field. That Isai guy is also regarded as the best original Smash player ever and is more of a doubles player in Melee who joins singles for fun.

http://www.mlgpro.com/wiki/index.php/2006_MLG_Season:_Final_Tally_of_Prize_Winners

Why? Precision, timing, they simply are better at it than the competition. Hell that Ken guy has a wiki page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Hoang . Always coming first..simply because his technical skills are slightly superior than everyone else\'s.

Post of the near future.

no no no no no no no no no ow i pricked myself no no no no no ow i wandered into traffic

Unicron! RIP 1983-2008

I\'m not trying to be a prick or smartass here... just having a civil debate.

Just looking at MLG tournament results (once the biggest tournament for the game, and again Smash was 2nd behind Halo 2 in tournament play for a long time)

Using the popularity argument in this case is shoddy.. popularity doesn\'t equal game depth.  There are MUCH better FPS\'s out there with more depth than Halo 2.  The game is just more accessible to people than say, CS:Source or Rainbow Six (pre-Vegas) is.

I\'m not gonna lie, this looks like it takes some fast reflexes and seems like a blast:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CkyNXdPiUjA&feature=related

But I still have doubts on it being the deepest fighter out there.  People that play all fighters competitively agree that VF5 is.

It\'s all opinion, so here is mine.

1: I think the pure speed of a SSBM match , will make it a lot more complex, due to reflexes alone.

2: I think, all around depth, that most likely VF5 would be considered the deepest.

3: I still say Street Fighter 3: Third Strike is the deepest fighting game out there.

4: I\'ve played every Tekken, \'cept for Tekken 5, I just felt the franchise started to go stale. I apperciate what those players were doing, but it was still just downright boring, for me to watch.

[Jumpman]

I\'m always civil. I was banned 5 times for being too civil.

My whole point there was basically just popularity+big events+consistent winners every time= proven depth. It\'s not random people doing freak combos getting luck kills, its just skill prevailing. Everyone knows everything about the game but 7 people out skilling everyone proves the large amount of depth involved.

I wouldn\'t argue people who say VF5 is the deepest, but I will say if its already being considered the deepest after only 1 year or so of being released isn\'t a great sign. Just looking on youtube, the evolution of Melee progressed progressed a lot over the years. Even over 2006 you could Ken (the best player) changing his style to accommodate those of others. But whatev, I\'m sure VF5 is deep, and I\'m sure Melee is on the same level.

That\'s a nice video because it features Link, a nobody character in the hands of most to be honest. And he plays weird, doesn\'t even wash dash, just has great spacing and timing on his moves. Here\'s a vid of the 2006 final championship match of the nation, also featuring two of those seven elite players (Ken guy got 3rd). Fox vs Fox aka fattest character vs fattest character.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fE6hUHkEPS0&feature=related

I\'m always civil. I was banned 5 times for being too civil.

My whole point there was basically just popularity+big events+consistent winners every time= proven depth. It\'s not random people doing freak combos getting luck kills, its just skill prevailing. Everyone knows everything about the game but 7 people out skilling everyone proves the large amount of depth involved.

I wouldn\'t argue people who say VF5 is the deepest, but I will say if its already being considered the deepest after only 1 year or so of being released isn\'t a great sign. Just looking on youtube, the evolution of Melee progressed progressed a lot over the years. Even over 2006 you could Ken (the best player) changing his style to accommodate those of others. But whatev, I\'m sure VF5 is deep, and I\'m sure Melee is on the same level.

That\'s a nice video because it features Link, a nobody character in the hands of most to be honest. And he plays weird, doesn\'t even wash dash, just has great spacing and timing on his moves. Here\'s a vid of the 2006 final championship match of the nation, also featuring two of those seven elite players (Ken guy got 3rd). Fox vs Fox aka fattest character vs fattest character.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fE6hUHkEPS0&feature=related

Next outburst like that and I\'ll have Unicron ban you.

Watch it.

Nah I d leave him alone so he would hurt himself more :yawn:

[Jumpman]

Nah I d leave him alone so he would hurt himself more :yawn:

Actually VF5 came out in July 06 on arcades in japan so its been more then a year.

I would say SSBM is a deep game at tourney lvl but even then saying same 7 people are in top tier isnt really a good point as thats pretty much the case with many games and even some people carry over multiple games as top contenders - daigo - justin wong are two players that excel at games from MVSC2 - sf3 - tekken - etc

i will continue to say there is depth in most popular fighting games - thats why they became so in first place, they offered a good range of playability from casual to hardcore. It\'s peoples different tastes. i personally like my guilty gear as you your Smash brothers - i rather 2d fighter to 3d so we will both have a bias on it in the end.

but on another note i do plan on picked up brawl when it comes out just for the sake of its fun to play - specially with friends

Also Virtua Fighter has shown its depth in previous installments such as VF4 as well. It keeps retaining it and improving it. So even if VF5 was released yesterday it would have still been accurate enough to be deemed deepest. The gameplay is old and has been evolving for years

[clips]

Aye, Clips, I\'m sorry if I offended you. It\'s nothing against you.

I just see so many opinions formed that don\'t have a lot of facts to back them up, and occasionally I like to call people on it.

No offense taken,...i think i just took your post the wrong way,...so i was kinda bein\' the jerk there....my bad...:highfive:

[Jumpman]

3 millionish in sales already.

Best selling game of the year yes it will be.