I think this has gone far enough.?

[Titan]

Its days like this I wish swif, Racer or (e) still posted. They could be the butt end of the jokes.

dint bring them up, they just may show.

Docwiz

I feel I need to put my 2 cents in because this is beginning to funnel into the very welfare of the board in general and I feel a neutral parties deconstruction of the whole incident is needed. I thought this was just an issue between Raz, Uni and Politie but it is affecting all of us. You can seriously feel the tension in every thread now.

Before I go into my opinion, I just want to be clear that I respect everyone here and have no enemies and do respect everyone\'s opinions no matter if they are right, wrong, gay, serious, a joke, whatever. I just try to read things and respond with an open mind, though sometimes I don\'t like many others.

I did enjoy debating Uni about the Halocaust but I am still a bit confused about why he felt the Jews were not innocent as well as some other facts which I had to reread a few times to get the jist. He even PMed me to see if I understood his post and I explained my stance about how it was a bit unclear. I think I understood what he was TRYING to say but I did not and still do not agree at all with what he had to say.

To be honest, this has dragged out so far, I\'m starting to forget what exactly happened and what the original points were. The only thing that is sticking in my mind right now is the fact he stated the Jews weren\'t innocent, which I disagree with 100% (and because it was repeated so much in different threads that it is the only thing I remember at this point from the original topic). It did come across as the fact that he meant they deserved it but I don\'t know if that was his intention. But what he said was what he said and it doesn\'t matter his intention but how it was communicated and he can\'t take that back.

I do feel he needs to sit down and write a response that is completely clear and coherent as to clear up any confusion of his post. Just saying "look back" doesn\'t help because everyone knows this board; no one really goes back to make sense of a post that was confusing from the get go. He said in the thread he explained it again and again but there was so much mudslinging that I don\'t know if its even there or not or if it was clearer. Either that or just not do anything and see if it dies down (which at this rate it will be a long long time)

I did think polities post was a bit off color and I understood why Raz was upset. I would be too to be honest and I was a bit uneased when I read it. Politie I took was just trying to get a rise out of Raz but wishing harm on someone\'s family, serious or not to certain people is just not a laughing matter. Some just shake it off, others don\'t and Raz I take is very defensive over his family and I understand why he is upset. Insult the poster, not an innocent party

Anyway, I don\'t want to take sides because even though this is an internet message board, I can seriously feel the tension as if we were all sitting in a room. I just wanted to put in my two cents and present everything the way I see it from my observations as a neutral party. If this works or not, who knows. But things are just getting a bit out of hand and need a resolution. I feel that we either need to let this go and move on or someone has to man up and either explain, apologize or clarify.

good post, at least you have the decency to be civil about things. The reason I took out on raz is that I think he deserved it. I wanted him to feel as upset as I was about his comments. I have given my reasons as to why I think what I think, but all he does is ignore it and start namecalling. The reason this debate got heated is raz and raz alone.
Also the fact that he is constantly trying to spin it, as if I (and uni) somehow think the jews deserved it. I don\'t. In fact I have already said so many times in these threads. It was a horrible thing.
The point is, things aren\'t as black and white as people tend to see them. Every group of people has it\'s bad apples and it\'s good apples. It\'s not like all Germans in ww2 were evil nazipigs. Had you been born in 1925 in Germany you might have fought in the German army too. Does that mean you\'re inherently evil? of course not, you were forced into the situation. The same can be said of the jews, there were some good and some bad apples. Now, again, this doesn\'t mean they deserved the holocaust! All I\'m saying is, you have to be careful seeing everything too black and white, you can\'t say jews were all saints and German all sinners, just as much as you can\'t say dutch, american, Italian, etc were all inherently good or bad.
I would really like you, or anybody else who can show the decency to respond in a civil manner to respond to this.

[Jumpman]

Unicron made a stupid statement, did not back it up with any logic or rationale thought, did not explain why they were not innocent in relation to the holocaust, will not flat out take it back which is the only saving grace he has left, etc.

We\'re not letting it go until he admits he\'s wrong.

The reason I took out on raz is that I think he deserved it. I wanted him to feel as upset as I was about his comments. I have given my reasons as to why I think what I think, but all he does is ignore it and start namecalling. The reason this debate got heated is raz and raz alone.

Don\'t even start that one. Every body in that thread except for Clips and Titan were name calling . I was not the only person. And name calling is extremely common on this forum. You\'re the only one who went off topic with comments about my family. You are the only one who wrote a post that got a response like, "wow.. quite a tantrum.". Not me.  I really don\'t care what you think about me or my posts. You don\'t like them? Tough shit, buddy. However , what you said, even though this is an internet forum was just sad and pathetic.

I did think polities post was a bit off color and I understood why Raz was upset. I would be too to be honest and I was a bit uneased when I read it. Politie I took was just trying to get a rise out of Raz but wishing harm on someone\'s family, serious or not to certain people is just not a laughing matter. Some just shake it off, others don\'t and Raz I take is very defensive over his family and I understand why he is upset. Insult the poster, not an innocent party

Even the Tit gets my point about your absurd remark.

Unicorn makes me angry on a poster\'s level. I think he might be the absolute worst poster in the history of PSX2Central. I\'ve never seen someone be so constantly wrong. His opinions mean nothing. If I was his five year old son I\'d devise a plan to get adopted somehow knowing my life is in immediate jeopardy. He never admits he\'s wrong, instead choosing to write a two page post about some obscure topic briefly mentioned in the thread.

It\'s like watching a specie going extinct in front of your eyes. Everyone knows the result, but he drags on avoidable the inevitable.

Jumpy nailed it. Uni has to be the single worst poster ever. He makes these absurd remarks, gets called on them and then either writes "read back" or writes some essay that doesn\'t have anything to do with the topic.  

I know I can be annoying, but ninety percent of what I say is just bullshitting with people. Just like the baseball thread. I wasn\'t trying to piss any one off and you could tell, by the way Luke and I started with the "this sucks more" responses.

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

make me a admin again, so i can rain fire on this shit hole forum.


















.. although i am drunk atm, so u can ignore me

Make me a mod again, so I can delete Uni\'s and Pet\'s post for fun.

[nO-One]

I just wanted to chime in.... nazi\'s are bad mkay.

I was gonna write a whole essay about my views on the subject and yatta yatta. But I think I\'ll just copy Luke and play it cool because I am.

Don\'t even start that one. Every body in that thread except for Clips and Titan were name calling . I was not the only person. And name calling is extremely common on this forum. You\'re the only one who went off topic with comments about my family. You are the only one who wrote a post that got a response like, "wow.. quite a tantrum.". Not me.  I really don\'t care what you think about me or my posts. You don\'t like them? Tough shit, buddy. However , what you said, even though this is an internet forum was just sad and pathetic.



Even the Tit gets my point about your absurd remark.


Jumpy nailed it. Uni has to be the single worst poster ever. He makes these absurd remarks, gets called on them and then either writes "read back" or writes some essay that doesn\'t have anything to do with the topic.  

I know I can be annoying, but ninety percent of what I say is just bullshitting with people. Just like the baseball thread. I wasn\'t trying to piss any one off and you could tell, by the way Luke and I started with the "this sucks more" responses.

I love how you claim you don\'t care when you clearly do. Oh btw you\'re the one who started the insulting, I was merely reacting. From now on I\'m done talking to you

WTF is going on in this thread?

...

Titan I ve sent you a PM for that exact same reason to see if I made myself clear and if there was anything you wanted me to clarify. You did not tell me you were confused about that specific part, neither did you tell me that you are still confused. You told me that you were confused at the beginning only.

That said this is a note to all: this post is directed to Titan and Titan only:
a) since there is an obvious bias against me by others in here that existed for a long time
b) there is also a deliberate effort by a select few to feed the misinterpretation and carry others away with it. It was their long awaited chance. And It works pretty well.

You are free to ask any question you want. Anyone else will be completely ignored. It will be like talking to a wall. Hostility and some of the members\' personality issues, complexes etc are not of my concern. If I decide to reply to someone else as well that means he is willing to discuss not to attack.

First I will make a direct quote because I am completely confident and I dont care how much misinterpretation or misunderstanding it may cause:

Its as if the Jewish have endured the most losses in recent history and we should feel sorry mostly for them. And it is not like they are innocent either.

Everything I will explain now is encapsulated in that quote.  

Note that half of the quote refers to past while the second refers to the present (are not were). I did not say "were" because it is like saying that they deserved their fate in the 30-40\'s. The "are" though refers to the fact that the Jews are not free of crime and murders themselves. Their record includes both being victims and victimizers.I am referring to the fact that the Jews are not the biggest victims of recent history. They are one of the biggest victims though. There is nothing in this sentence that is clearly pointing that the Jews deserved it nor that the holocaust wasnt a big deal. I understood though that my sentence was subject of ambiguity and it confused later on. So I wanted to clarify on it and I did try. Thats why I told you that I view the holocaust as a huge and tragic event to eliminate the misunderstandings. It is indeed a HUGELY TRAGIC EVENT! ONE OF THE WORST

That quote though was pointing towards something else too. The fact that other losses, crimes and events are minimilized next to the holocaust. Not an effort to minimalize the holocaust as some others tend to claim.

If there is someone who needs to be finger pointed at is not me. But others who view the holocaust as the biggest and most tragic event, while such tragic events are many. To an extend that almost none of us even remember, care or mention for example the 20 million Russians killed also by the Nazis (including children, women, men and soldiers). A number far surpassing the 6 million Jews. And that because the words "holocaust" or "genocide" are not attached on them. Those "throwing the stone" should watch their faces in the mirror and ask their selves who is undermining what, and who is almost acting as if communists or Russians deserved to die or as if it wasnt as serious as the death of Jews (no genocide tag? Not big deal). They are just as bad. But the Russians never got the same empathy. Even though they lost much more.

I tried to explain farther that our perception of the holocaust is inflated at the cost of other tragedies and facts. Including the fact that the countries that claim to be saviors or supporters of the Jews, did not want the Jews either. They killed Jews theirselves during the WW2 by bombing the concentration camps, and they didnt care to stop the bastard Hitler from getting rid of the Jews until Hitler turned against them. Hypocrisy ruled after the end of the WW2 and exploited the holocaust (thus they exploited the misery and death of the Jews) by adding a few twists, as an effort to attack any communist support and undermine public awareness of the Russian losses.
This also served as means of practicing nationalistic propaganda inside their countries.

Today whoever tries to point out  the EU, US and Israel effort to exploit the Jewish holocaust for their political and nationalistic interests, is misunderstood as being an anti-semitic, a Jew-hater, a Nazi supporter.

This thread was the definite proof of my point. The effort to prove me wrong automatically proves my point right. It proves that the propaganda was an outstanding success. And if I did that discussion on purpose to prove this, it would have been an outstanding success as well. The expected behavior is extremely visible

My great grandfather and grandfather fought against the Nazis during the WW2, my best friend is subject of an attack by the Neo-Nazis in Russia, and a Neo-Nazi supporter in my country wants to harm me because I am fighting against his stupid views.These stupid accusations towards me and Politiepet do not have any relation with reality.

These are my views. End of Story

WTF is going on in this thread?

Things were said, feelings got hurt... The world keeps spinnin\'.

Regarding some of the expected replies from other members:
Any insulting characterizations and efforts to make me admit something I do not agree with are redundant and ignored. For those that are more capable at name calling, insults, bias and hostility than discuss feel free to talk to the wall.

But I can forgive and continue as if nothing happened as long as any of you are willing to put it back and discuss in a civilized manner. I do NOT hold anything against ANYONE.

If someone wants to have direct answers, this is my email SayNoToFascism@hotmail.com

I d gladly discuss with anyone in msn if he requests too.

I want to take this OUT of the forum, since I do not want Politiepet to be trashed anymore because of me and I do not want the forum to keep looking like a stupid warzone with no purpose! This forum deserves better

Titan I ve sent you a PM for that exact same reason to see if I made myself clear and if there was anything you wanted me to clarify. You did not tell me you were confused about that specific part, neither did you tell me that you are still confused. You told me that you were confused at the beginning only.

That said this is a note to all: this post is directed to Titan and Titan only:
a) since there is an obvious bias against me by others in here that existed for a long time
b) there is also a deliberate effort by a select few to feed the misinterpretation and carry others away with it. It was their long awaited chance. And It works pretty well.

You are free to ask any question you want. Anyone else will be completely ignored. It will be like talking to a wall. Hostility and some of the members\' personality issues, complexes etc are not of my concern. If I decide to reply to someone else as well that means he is willing to discuss not to attack.

First I will make a direct quote because I am completely confident and I dont care how much misinterpretation or misunderstanding it may cause:

Everything I will explain now is encapsulated in that quote.  

Note that half of the quote refers to past while the second refers to the present (are not were). I did not say "were" because it is like saying that they deserved their fate in the 30-40\'s. The "are" though refers to the fact that the Jews are not free of crime and murders themselves. Their record includes both being victims and victimizers.I am referring to the fact that the Jews are not the biggest victims of recent history. They are one of the biggest victims though. There is nothing in this sentence that is clearly pointing that the Jews deserved it nor that the holocaust wasnt a big deal. I understood though that my sentence was subject of ambiguity and it confused later on. So I wanted to clarify on it and I did try. Thats why I told you that I view the holocaust as a huge and tragic event to eliminate the misunderstandings. It is indeed a HUGELY TRAGIC EVENT! ONE OF THE WORST

That quote though was pointing towards something else too. The fact that other losses, crimes and events are minimilized next to the holocaust. Not an effort to minimalize the holocaust as some others tend to claim.

If there is someone who needs to be finger pointed at is not me. But others who view the holocaust as the biggest and most tragic event, while such tragic events are many. To an extend that almost none of us even remember, care or mention for example the 20 million Russians killed also by the Nazis (including children, women, men and soldiers). A number far surpassing the 6 million Jews. And that because the words "holocaust" or "genocide" are not attached on them. Those "throwing the stone" should watch their faces in the mirror and ask their selves who is undermining what, and who is almost acting as if communists or Russians deserved to die or as if it wasnt as serious as the death of Jews (no genocide tag? Not big deal). They are just as bad. But the Russians never got the same empathy. Even though they lost much more.

I tried to explain farther that our perception of the holocaust is inflated at the cost of other tragedies and facts. Including the fact that the countries that claim to be saviors or supporters of the Jews, did not want the Jews either. They killed Jews theirselves during the WW2 by bombing the concentration camps, and they didnt care to stop the bastard Hitler from getting rid of the Jews until Hitler turned against them. Hypocrisy ruled after the end of the WW2 and exploited the holocaust (thus they exploited the misery and death of the Jews) by adding a few twists, as an effort to attack any communist support and undermine public awareness of the Russian losses.
This also served as means of practicing nationalistic propaganda inside their countries.

Today whoever tries to point out  the EU, US and Israel effort to exploit the Jewish holocaust for their political and nationalistic interests, is misunderstood as being an anti-semitic, a Jew-hater, a Nazi supporter.

This thread was the definite proof of my point. The effort to prove me wrong automatically proves my point right. It proves that the propaganda was an outstanding success. And if I did that discussion on purpose to prove this, it would have been an outstanding success as well. The expected behavior is extremely visible

My great grandfather and grandfather fought against the Nazis during the WW2, my best friend is subject of an attack by the Neo-Nazis in Russia, and a Neo-Nazi supporter in my country wants to harm me because I am fighting against his stupid views.These stupid accusations towards me and Politiepet do not have any relation with reality.

These are my views. End of Story

Nazowned!