I think this has gone far enough.?

pffft the holocaust never even happened... duh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

cuz wikipedia is always true

[Viper_Fujax]

"Holocaust denial is the claim..."

its not saying it\'s true. the claim, itself, is true though.

don\'t ever question wikipedia again

Titan I ve sent you a PM for that exact same reason to see if I made myself clear and if there was anything you wanted me to clarify. You did not tell me you were confused about that specific part, neither did you tell me that you are still confused. You told me that you were confused at the beginning only.

That said this is a note to all: this post is directed to Titan and Titan only:
a) since there is an obvious bias against me by others in here that existed for a long time
b) there is also a deliberate effort by a select few to feed the misinterpretation and carry others away with it. It was their long awaited chance. And It works pretty well.

You are free to ask any question you want. Anyone else will be completely ignored. It will be like talking to a wall. Hostility and some of the members\' personality issues, complexes etc are not of my concern. If I decide to reply to someone else as well that means he is willing to discuss not to attack.

First I will make a direct quote because I am completely confident and I dont care how much misinterpretation or misunderstanding it may cause:

Everything I will explain now is encapsulated in that quote.  

Note that half of the quote refers to past while the second refers to the present (are not were). I did not say "were" because it is like saying that they deserved their fate in the 30-40\'s. The "are" though refers to the fact that the Jews are not free of crime and murders themselves. Their record includes both being victims and victimizers.I am referring to the fact that the Jews are not the biggest victims of recent history. They are one of the biggest victims though. There is nothing in this sentence that is clearly pointing that the Jews deserved it nor that the holocaust wasnt a big deal. I understood though that my sentence was subject of ambiguity and it confused later on. So I wanted to clarify on it and I did try. Thats why I told you that I view the holocaust as a huge and tragic event to eliminate the misunderstandings. It is indeed a HUGELY TRAGIC EVENT! ONE OF THE WORST

That quote though was pointing towards something else too. The fact that other losses, crimes and events are minimilized next to the holocaust. Not an effort to minimalize the holocaust as some others tend to claim.

If there is someone who needs to be finger pointed at is not me. But others who view the holocaust as the biggest and most tragic event, while such tragic events are many. To an extend that almost none of us even remember, care or mention for example the 20 million Russians killed also by the Nazis (including children, women, men and soldiers). A number far surpassing the 6 million Jews. And that because the words "holocaust" or "genocide" are not attached on them. Those "throwing the stone" should watch their faces in the mirror and ask their selves who is undermining what, and who is almost acting as if communists or Russians deserved to die or as if it wasnt as serious as the death of Jews (no genocide tag? Not big deal). They are just as bad. But the Russians never got the same empathy. Even though they lost much more.

I tried to explain farther that our perception of the holocaust is inflated at the cost of other tragedies and facts. Including the fact that the countries that claim to be saviors or supporters of the Jews, did not want the Jews either. They killed Jews theirselves during the WW2 by bombing the concentration camps, and they didnt care to stop the bastard Hitler from getting rid of the Jews until Hitler turned against them. Hypocrisy ruled after the end of the WW2 and exploited the holocaust (thus they exploited the misery and death of the Jews) by adding a few twists, as an effort to attack any communist support and undermine public awareness of the Russian losses.
This also served as means of practicing nationalistic propaganda inside their countries.

Today whoever tries to point out  the EU, US and Israel effort to exploit the Jewish holocaust for their political and nationalistic interests, is misunderstood as being an anti-semitic, a Jew-hater, a Nazi supporter.

This thread was the definite proof of my point. The effort to prove me wrong automatically proves my point right. It proves that the propaganda was an outstanding success. And if I did that discussion on purpose to prove this, it would have been an outstanding success as well. The expected behavior is extremely visible

My great grandfather and grandfather fought against the Nazis during the WW2, my best friend is subject of an attack by the Neo-Nazis in Russia, and a Neo-Nazi supporter in my country wants to harm me because I am fighting against his stupid views.These stupid accusations towards me and Politiepet do not have any relation with reality.

These are my views. End of Story

You know why the Russians don\'t get empathy?  Because THEY COULD fight back.  The Jews didn\'t have an army, guns, etc.  Also one could argue the Soviet numbers are inflated due to their tactics of dumping numbers into a battle regardless of losses because they could.  Also the Soviets were allied with Germany until 1942.

In quite a few battles that the German\'s lost - statistically they killed the twice the amount of Soviets than than troops they lost.

[Titan]

Titan I ve sent you a PM for that exact same reason to see if I made myself clear and if there was anything you wanted me to clarify. You did not tell me you were confused about that specific part, neither did you tell me that you are still confused. You told me that you were confused at the beginning only.

That said this is a note to all: this post is directed to Titan and Titan only:
a) since there is an obvious bias against me by others in here that existed for a long time
b) there is also a deliberate effort by a select few to feed the misinterpretation and carry others away with it. It was their long awaited chance. And It works pretty well.

You are free to ask any question you want. Anyone else will be completely ignored. It will be like talking to a wall. Hostility and some of the members\' personality issues, complexes etc are not of my concern. If I decide to reply to someone else as well that means he is willing to discuss not to attack.

It didn\'t dawn on me until I went back after the PMs we sent each other but at that point it turned into a flamefest so at that point I didn\'t care anymore nor would it have mattered.

if you guys can\'t fight nice, threads will be closed.

it doesn\'t take much effort to show maturity in a debate.

I love how you claim you don\'t care when you clearly do. Oh btw you\'re the one who started the insulting, I was merely reacting. From now on I\'m done talking to you

Cry me a river, you big baby. I insulted you - whoopie. Insult me back, but you don\'t have to be a big pussy and start wishing children dead. That, even on a forum, is a disgusting thing to say and just shows how worthless, you, as a human being are.

As for Uni\'s long and pointless essay. Nice try to spin it. We were talking about the holocaust and you went in a different direction with your pointless comment about the Jews are not innocent.  Fine, the holocaust isn\'t one of the single most tragic event in the world. On the other hand, how are suppose to read it? When you are talking about a single event and then some dumbass comes out and makes an offensive remark like that, expect to catch heat.

You can try and spin it any single way you want, but you have yet to come up with a logical reason for saying what you said.

Today whoever tries to point out the EU, US and Israel effort to exploit the Jewish holocaust for their political and nationalistic interests, is misunderstood as being an anti-semitic, a Jew-hater, a Nazi supporter.

This thread was the definite proof of my point. The effort to prove me wrong automatically proves my point right. It proves that the propaganda was an outstanding success. And if I did that discussion on purpose to prove this, it would have been an outstanding success as well. The expected behavior is extremely visible

Here you go with your completely off base and stupid comments. No one is trying to exploit the holocaust.

Ever think there is a "biased against you", because you constantly make these absurd remarks?  Jumpy nailed it when he said you can easily be considered one of the worst posters this forum has ever seen.

   if you guys can\'t fight nice, threads will be closed.

it doesn\'t take much effort to show maturity in a debate.
Today 08:00 PM

Go ahead and start closing every single thread in CE then, by all means.

pff! go cry me a river! Who are you to judge where we should draw the line! In the end, you were the one who came in here and started insulting me to my very core. You had it coming to you that I would retaliate and your a hypocrite for crying that I don\'t play it nice.... To me you were already crossing the line, I don\'t see why I would have to be respectful about the way I got back at you.


back on topic: NOT!!!!\'s a link that explains my and uni\'s point in great detail... Call us crazy all you want, but there are a shitload of historians who will tell you exactly the same as we did.

edit: link removed for obvious reasons...

pff! go cry me a river! Who are you to judge where we should draw the line! In the end, you were the one who came in here and started insulting me to my very core. You had it coming to you that I would retaliate and your a hypocrite for crying that I don\'t play it nice.... To me you were already crossing the line, I don\'t see why I would have to be respectful about the way I got back at you.


back on topic: here\'s a link that explains my and uni\'s point in great detail... Call us crazy all you want, but there are a shitload of historians who will tell you exactly the same as we did.

HAHAHA @ shitloads of historians. Yeah, keep dreaming.
There is also people who believe the world is flat. We call them idiots now\'a\'days.
And if you need a link to explain your beliefs, then you are seriously screwed.

I insulted you at the very core? Which time? The time I said I fell asleep reading your post or was it the time I compared you to your butt-buddy, Uni?

As for the whole "drawing the line". It\'s an obvious thing, that even Tit acknowledged. Fair play is the poster. It\'s just common sense, something you, obviously lack.

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

wait... the world isn\'t flat?!?!!




"kills self"

wait... the world isn\'t flat?!?!!




"kills self"

No, it isn\'t.
And woodchips is not an actual currency.

pff! go cry me a river! Who are you to judge where we should draw the line! In the end, you were the one who came in here and started insulting me to my very core. You had it coming to you that I would retaliate and your a hypocrite for crying that I don\'t play it nice.... To me you were already crossing the line, I don\'t see why I would have to be respectful about the way I got back at you.


back on topic: here\'s a link that explains my and uni\'s point in great detail... Call us crazy all you want, but there are a shitload of historians who will tell you exactly the same as we did.

Ok I am going to call you crazy.  That link that you posted to support your point is to DAVID DUKE\'s website LMAO.  I am sorry, but almost every American knows about that guy.  He is an ex Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan , He formed the National Association for the Advancement of White People and his ex wife started the website Stormfront among other things.

It is no wonder you two are nuts.

[Jumpman]

As for Uni\'s long and pointless essay. Nice try to spin it. We were talking about the holocaust and you went in a different direction with your pointless comment about the Jews are not innocent.  Fine, the holocaust isn\'t one of the single most tragic event in the world. On the other hand, how are suppose to read it? When you are talking about a single event and then some dumbass comes out and makes an offensive remark like that, expect to catch heat.

You can try and spin it any single way you want, but you have yet to come up with a logical reason for saying what you said.

That\'s pretty much how I saw it too. The "innocent" remark makes absolutely no sense in the context of the discussion and is totally irrelevant...more than the holocaust nonsense anyway. He wanted to say that a few Jews were guilty of some minor tragedies so uh...their whole people are not innocent of any past/present/future crimes.

Or you can look at it this way...

If there was a thread about slavery, and I chimed in and said, "well its not like they\'re all innocent",  You better believe that Clips would be at my front door with a baseball bat.

Or you can look at it this way...

If there was a thread about slavery, and I chimed in and said, "well its not like they\'re all innocent",  You better believe that Clips would be at my front door with a baseball bat.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Unicron!
c)Allies using the holocaust as a tragic event despite that they did not want the Jews. Holocaust also considered in propaganda studies as a real event used for propaganda purposes by the EU allies and the US including as a counter attack towards any form of admiration and empathy for the Russian entry that determined the loss of the Nazi\'s, causing the death of 20 million Russian\'s.

???????????

Wanna clarify just what the hell you\'re trying to say there???

20m Russians died because 6m Jews died???

Russians died because the West used the Holocaust to create Israel???

Few people recognized Russia\'s contribution to WW2...so...they died???

OOOOoooooh.....Now I get it. Its because you dont know much about the details of history, the political, social and economic state of the countries and their relations, thats why you misinterpret constantly my posts. I cant help you in that. I can not afford wasting my time trying to teach someone with blinders and no manners. I am not a professor and I can not punish you in any way.

Thats ok though. The only thing I can do for you is show understanding.

That was a total asshole reply...

I asked you a simple fucking question, insult-free, and you proceed to insult my intelligence?

All I did was try to interpret what you said, based on the way you worded it and instead of clarifying, like I asked, you just respond with the same response throughout the whole thread: "Not gonna explain it, read again, blah blah blah..."

These are YOUR EXACT WORDS: ...a real event used for propaganda purposes by the EU allies and the US including as a counter attack towards any form of admiration and empathy for the Russian entry that determined the loss of the Nazi\'s, causing the death of 20 million Russian\'s.

Just tell me, how the hell do you interpret a poorly worded sentence like that to mean anything other than the Holocaust was responsible for 20m dead Russians?

Then you proceed to cry that English is not your primary language?

If you had said that first and tried to work with us, we wouldn\'t have such hostility but you just came off as an asshole...