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Author Topic: The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?  (Read 4522 times)

Offline CHIZZY

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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2008, 07:55:31 AM »
people makin\' over $200k are living well? That\'s all realtive, son... If you live in a place like NYC, it doesn\'t go as far as other places. Or even New York State, where we have exorbanant state income tax. And with inflation in place, and the cost of energy sky-high, I think that number is hitting upper-mid class at best, not "wealthy"
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Offline Eiksirf
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2008, 10:21:20 AM »
Quote from: Mr. Kennedy
maybe we could stop spending money on things like you know... the iraq war, foreign aid, welfare, the IRS, and other useless government beauracracies.

So the wealthy face their first bad break in at least 8 years and we should abolish all the government agencies that benefit middle and lower class America and the world at large?
 
How about instead, the wealthy take their medicine and stop complaining.
 
Remember that government is by the people and for the "people".
 
"People" now extends to all races and creeds and income levels and sexual orientation and political alignment. That means the government is for a single, jobless mother of six just as much as it\'s for Captain Kennedy, Self-Sufficient Man of the Year.
 
So, no, you can\'t have it your way.
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Offline Mr. Kennedy
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2008, 10:31:53 AM »
The government is there to protect us, not run our lives, it says so in the bill of rights.

Tell me where in the constitution it says we shall redistribute wealth and provide  free health care based on the mere fact that they\'re a U.S. citizen.  People need to understand the difference between rights and priveleges, and it has nothing to do with wealth and everything to do with getting off your ass and taking responsibility for your life.

If we start doling out welfare checks and health care to every schmuck that walks the street their will be no benefit to the hard working individuals of this country.  I am a fan of workers, not moochers.  If you think people are incapable of overcoming adversity you have a very cynical view of society.

I see it like this, more good comes from freedom than bad.  You start giving the government more and more power, bad things will happen.
\"In the last 12 months 100,000 private sector jobs have been lost and yet you\'ve created 30,000 public sector jobs. Prime Minister, you cannot carry on forever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecidented engorgement of the unproductive bit. You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt.\" - Daniel Hannan

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Offline GigaShadow
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2008, 10:53:27 AM »
I am middle class.  Explain how the IRS and welfare benefit me Eik.

No one forced that mother to have six kids.  Sounds like she is lacking in the personal responsibility department.  I should not have to pay for her laziness, inability to use birth control and use common sense.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 10:55:38 AM by GigaShadow »
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline Mr. Kennedy
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2008, 11:16:55 AM »
Moral of the story.  We are responsible for our own lives and the decisions we make, as well as the consequences of those decisions.
\"In the last 12 months 100,000 private sector jobs have been lost and yet you\'ve created 30,000 public sector jobs. Prime Minister, you cannot carry on forever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecidented engorgement of the unproductive bit. You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt.\" - Daniel Hannan

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Offline Bozco
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2008, 02:57:59 PM »
Quote from: GigaShadow

No one forced that mother to have six kids.  Sounds like she is lacking in the personal responsibility department.  




*gasp*  Taking the words right out of my mouth.

Offline Jumpman

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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2008, 04:00:03 PM »
I thought Giga was pro life?
Who is this anamoly we call Jumpman? How is he able to do what he does and still survive after years of torment? It seems he feeds on the hate, growing with an intense passion to put unassuming members in their place.

Offline luckee
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2008, 04:15:44 PM »
Quote from: GigaShadow
I am middle class.  Explain how the IRS and welfare benefit me Eik.

No one forced that mother to have six kids.  Sounds like she is lacking in the personal responsibility department.  I should not have to pay for her laziness, inability to use birth control and use common sense.



Maybe the bible did. :confused:
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Offline clips

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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2008, 06:53:38 PM »
Quote from: Mr. Kennedy
Moral of the story.  We are responsible for our own lives and the decisions we make, as well as the consequences of those decisions.


Would you guys be happy if those folks weren\'t getting a check? Or would you find something else to criticize?....seems to me everybody is up in arms over these folks gettin\' a check, and i see the point to a degree, but it\'s just about impossible to figure out who is really benefiting from welfare and those that abuse it.

I guess you can have a type of monitoring program where a social worker monitors a certain group of folks, but even then...i think gov. whitman (when i used to live in jersey) passed legislation that required folks to get off of welfare witin 6 - 7 months, but i don\'t think it worked out very well,...people either tried to find work, but couldn\'t, or ended up asking for extensions, i\'m not really sure what happened with that law.
knowledge, wisdom & understanding..these are the basic fundamentals of life

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Offline Eiksirf
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2008, 08:27:56 AM »
Quote from: Mr. Kennedy
The government is there to protect us
 
If we start doling out welfare checks and health care to every schmuck that walks the street their will be no benefit to the hard working individuals of this country.

"Us" includes every schmuck that walks the street and "protecting," well that\'s a conveniently vague term, isn\'t it? Offering a kind of minimum means to live and raise those children is protection. And, there are no happy health care and welfare fairies who create the support and protection for these families, even if it\'s protection from their own incompetent mothers and fathers. That kind of protection costs money and that means we all have to foot the bill since we fund the government and this is part of the government\'s role.
 
Quote
I am middle class. Explain how the IRS and welfare benefit me Eik.

Welfare doesn\'t benefit you. For that matter, neither does ovarian cancer research, but the world and government don\'t revolve around only your needs. Thank God.
 
Quote
No one forced that mother to have six kids. Sounds like she is lacking in the personal responsibility department. I should not have to pay for her laziness, inability to use birth control and use common sense.

Yeah, you\'re right about her lack of responsibility, but unless you want a government that comes in and ties our citizens\' tubes, or one that leaves hard-luck children to die like in a third world country, then you\'ll have to pay for welfare.
 
Even if you can\'t think of anyone but yourself, luckily most of the country values American life and has already put those programs in place. They\'re not perfect and could use some tweaking, but they\'re necessary.
 
I really don\'t get the high-horse, holier-than-thou, government-for-me-only attitude. It\'s like wanting to vote for your own personal fantasy world, no? That\'s one way to go, I guess.
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Offline clips

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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2008, 08:38:06 AM »
Excellent post Eik....i agree 100%..:applause:
knowledge, wisdom & understanding..these are the basic fundamentals of life

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Offline Mr. Kennedy
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2008, 08:40:08 AM »
I\'d be for giving children under the age of 18 health coverage, but I\'d say once their out of high school or college (should they choose to continue their education which I always recommend), that they\'re on their own and must find work.  I say this because in this case I think it\'s best for the child to focus on their education.

My big issue is people who don\'t go to college, or the military, or enter the workforce and expect the working individuals of this country to pay for them.  There has to be a reasonable line between those who can\'t and those who won\'t work.

They should do this without increasing taxes, should be easy if you cut off all the people who are abusing the system of welfare.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 08:47:46 AM by Mr. Kennedy »
\"In the last 12 months 100,000 private sector jobs have been lost and yet you\'ve created 30,000 public sector jobs. Prime Minister, you cannot carry on forever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecidented engorgement of the unproductive bit. You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt.\" - Daniel Hannan

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Offline Eiksirf
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2008, 08:43:35 AM »
Quote from: Mr. Kennedy
My big issue is people who don\'t go to college, or the military, or enter the workforce and expect the working individuals of this country to pay for them. There has to be a reasonable line between those who can\'t and those who won\'t work.

That I can agree with. I hate moochers too, and living in a city, I mean, I see them and it pisses me off, ya know? That\'s why I\'m thinking we need to fix the welfare system and all that, get it running the way it was probably meant to when it was conceptualized.
\"What are you supposed to be, a clown or something?\"
\"Sometimes.\"
 
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Offline GigaShadow
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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2008, 03:50:40 PM »
Quote from: Jumpman
I thought Giga was pro life?


Wrong.  I have never stated I was pro life.  Generalizations suck don\'t they.  BTW I am not religious either.
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Offline Viper_Fujax

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The constitution is a charter of negative liberties?
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2008, 03:53:14 PM »
Quote from: GigaShadow
 Generalizations suck don\'t they.


i think you just blew a hole in the space-time continuum
You\'re never too old to burn to death in a fire

 

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