The Bouncer\'s Legacy- will it be good or bad? (Astro\'s take inside)

FF7 was the 1st Big Squaresoft game for Psx, and we all now that it was possibly the most influential Square title EVER. FF7 simply took the gaming world by storm with it\'s great story, gameplay, replay value and graphics and forever changed the industry. After FF7, the RPG genre took off in the USA and Europe and now it is certainly one of the most popular game genres.

Now,3 years later Square is set to release it\'s 1st Big title for Ps2. Early reports indicate that the game is short, the gameplay and control seems to be flawed, there\'s not much interaction with the environments (unlike classic beat\'em ups), and overall it looks like Square spent most of it\'s time perfecting the look of the game. The game\'s main attraction is certainly it\'s graphics. I have already heard many ppl say that they are going to buy The Bouncer because of it\'s  gorgeous graphics. Honestly im a little concerned by this an here\'s why:

If the Bouncer becomes a smashing success then it\'s only a matter of time before we start seeing large amounts of The Bouncer clones. Game makers are always looking for the next big thing so they can get on that bandwagon and make lots of profit from the trend.

When Sonic came about, lots of Sonic inspired characters (and games) were born. The same thing happened with Doom, Street Fighter,Final Fight, Mortal Kombat, Virtua Fighter,FF7 etc. But unlike all those great games The Bouncer seems to lack the gameplay punch... So if The Bouncer isnt such a good game imagine the clones!

Games full of cinemas, FMV, cutscenes,etc. Man, that\'s not the videogame future i want, but if a game like this ends up beeing a huge seller you can bet that developers will try and emulate Square\'s newest formula.

Developers:
"I mean why focus on developing games with great gameplay when companies that do that (SEGA!) are not thriving as much? Instead let\'s develop games like The Bouncer, games with tons of cinemas, so gamers are lured in by their graphics and buy them to show off their system"


Will this really happen? Will developers sacrifice gameplay in favor of graphics? Will The Bouncer start the next big trend in the videogame industry just like FF7 did with psx?

Will The Bouncer\'s influece gonna be a bad one, or i do i really have nothing to be concerned about?  

Astro :smokin:

[Edited by Astroboy2112 on 01-05-2001 at 02:20 AM]

[Living-In-Clip]

I can\'t add alot to your post, like  I usually try and do with these subject "matters". You nailed it on the head for the most part.

If the Bouncer sells massive amounts, and it will. Then, we could very well see developers cloning the forumla that made the game. This always happens. You can take for example the original WipeOut. After it, there was plenty of clones. If this is bad or not, just depends on how well the genre is from the start and how bad the clones turn out.  

I really feel indifferent towards The Bouncer. I think for some it will be an excellent short term game. But for the most, I feel it may end up being a big dissapointment. Keep in mind, this is only my opinion. I have nothing to base it off of, other then the little bits of information I\'ve read or seen.

Hopefully I\'m wrong, because this generation really needs a good beat\'em\'up game.


I read your post again, and think maybe I missed the point. Let me address your comment about developers focusing on CGI/Cinemas etc instead of gameplay. It won\'t be different then 32bit. Why? Because soon as the CD medium and the systems started being able to push these things, they started focusing on those things. I guess we can look "forward" to that again. Blah.

Originally posted by Astroboy2112
Will this really happen? Will developers sacrifice gameplay in favor of graphics?...

Well, I guess M$ with their X Box gonna reeeeaaaally help the developers in that part. If you got power then it\'s great, but too much.... I don\'t think so. Developers probably will only use a small portion of what the X Box power offer. But I\'m no sure about Square though. They\'re starting to only look more on graphics and a lot less on gameplay, I\'m not sure they can\'t resist the power of X Box. Please let me be wrong about this:crap:

[Living-In-Clip]

The main thing is, its first generation software. Anytime a new console is out, the first thing pushed is the graphics. That is because, the \'casual gamer\' wants to see fantastic graphics, with their new system. They want to show off their new system to a friend. They wanted to be "awwed" and "swooned" with the graphics.

So, developers are pushed and push for fantastic looking first generation software. And it sells. And until the 2nd or even 3rd generation of software, most titles are just eyecandy for most systems.

Of course, there is a few save examples. An example right off the top of my head, is Metal Gear Solid 2, where the is an equal amount of focus on gameplay and graphics. But, for the most part, even in the media, they focus on graphics. How do the graphics look? And with new consoles coming out, slightly more powerful, there is even more pressure to push the graphics. You can\'t really advirtise gameplay well. But, you can throw impressive graphics out in a commercial and wow someone in 15 seconds.

On the side of the events. With 3 consoles, each very close to each other, the graphic changes won\'t be that noticeable. So, developers may end up focusing on gameplay. We\'ve seen the 3D world and we\'ve got a good idea on what it can offer from the 32 bit era. We\'ve got past the amazement of seeing our favorite character in polygons and such. We now just want the game to play as good as it looks. And developers will notice that this generation, I believe.

Now I agree with some parts of this thread. That\'s a good point, Astro, but how can you say that Bouncer\'s clones will always be worse? You haven\'t even played Bouncer have you?

And it is not always so. Doom. It was good game, but many clones surpassed it. First one wich was truly greater and more popular was Duke Nukem 3d. Of course it brought new engine ( wich was good at the time ) and many new ideas but still it was referred as doom-clone.

Now Bouncer might not be bad at all. But it will be a success. Square knows this. But that\'s why they\'ll make Bouncer 2 wich\'ll be so much better in gameplay, longetivity and such.

Everything is about marketizing.

Nope Joyda i havent played The Bouncer yet, but when  i hear that you get 1-2 minutes of gameplay and then Bam Cinemas start to roll in, i get a little worried.

Beeing this a potential trend starter, im a little concerned that developers might want to follow the same path to success. Cinemas and fmv are great but they dont add replay value to a  game. Great gameplay does!

The Bouncer glorification of cinemas is my main concern. I\'m concerned that developers might clone the game focusing on having more cinemas and better graphics than The Bouncer instead of improving actual gameplay. Im afraid that the new trend in the videogame industry might not be beat \'em ups but games with little gameplay time and mucho cinemas!  

Astro :smokin:

Astroboy2112 Final Fantasy7 was not the first PSX1 game from Square.
Square started with other games.One of this is Tobal.An original fighting game that also got bad reviews.
Tobal(similar moves with the bouncer) appeared very weird for some.But it is a master piece.

The point is that Square starts with some not so perfect games on a new console.Then they begin puting all their effort for the games they think are key titles.

Living in a clip is right:

The main thing is, its first generation software. Anytime a new console is out, the first thing pushed is the graphics. That is because, the \'casual gamer\' wants to see fantastic graphics, with their new system. They want to show off their new system to a friend. They wanted to be "awwed" and "swooned" with the graphics.

This time they put all their effort on a game which has  nice gameplay and GREAT graphics.These are what a good first gen game needs.
Now think...if the game was longer how much better its reviews would have been?A lot lot better.With other words its main flaw is that it is short.Nothing else.That only disappointment affects the whole opinion about the game.

i see this generation being like The move from 8 bit to 16 bit.  the rendering method is the same just with much more power. So I think we\'re gonna see alotta what we saw last generation but bigger and better looking w/ some exceptions of creartive bursts from eceptional developers. The only big factor I see that is really gonna push towards something new for this generation is the online factor.

I hope square doesn\'t dissapoint us.