The Japanese hate the Xbox!

That\'s all that should matter, mm.  I could care less about your personal views about Microsoft, but if a system has great games and awesome hardware, why should that stop you from purchasing it.  I was not addressing people like you, mm, only people who say, "I\'m not buying Xbox cuz I hate Bill Gates and/or Microsux!"

thats just the way it is.  how boycotts are created.

im a hardcore gamer so i will look past bill gates deception.  but the average person?  hell yeah they wont support him for that.

mm

**Double Post**

Many in here don\'t want Xbox to succeed because it\'s from Microsoft. Why? Well, somehow it became cool to hate Microsoft and Bill Gates.  Those who know the history of videogames will know that the $11 billion a year phenomenon was born in the United States (at MIT to be exact). Thinking about that, don\'t you think that a US console SHOULD be dominating the market right now? It\'s kind of ironic if you think about it, really. After 3DO it seemed that the Americans just gave up and the majority of them focused on the PC, the mother of videogames.

**Edited for BS**

I don\'t want X-Box to succeed because it doesn\'t take any chances for its creativity or lack thereof.  They created a controller that looks VERY similar to a DC pad, an old PC style architecture with a few bells and whistles, no DVD support out of the box, and the longest list of ports I have ever seen.  Wanna know why I hate the X-Box?  Because it brings absolutely nothing to the table of innovation.

The NGC\'s console design is innovative, a compact cube that had never been done before with a controller that looks different from every controller devised today.  The PS2 is the first console to utilize DVD playback as a built in feature and the first console to utilize streaming technology as its main program medium and its the first console with pressure sensitive buttons on its controller.  The Dreamcast is the first controller to utilize VMU features and full fledged internet play.

After reading all that, what does the X-Box offer us?  I can\'t think of ANYTHING innovative.  Not one damn thing that will effect the way I play games.

All the mistakes of the past have been learned from. ****y marketing, lack of support, and lack of quality hardware has all been learned from, and Xbox represents that.

Yep, now they are making all new ones.  Incomplete devkits because of incomplete hardware (NV25), a machine that plays DVD\'s but doesn\'t, a "justified" higher cost (so says Allard) thanks to an ethernet port and an added HD, and an old PC architecture that brings nothing new to the table.  Look, there\'s just nothing that makes me say "wow" when I look at the X-Box.  Polygons don\'t mean anything to me when their only real franchise title is a game I can buy on my PC.

Xbox represents the New American Console.

To me, the country it comes from makes little difference.  Want X-Box to succeed in Japan with the MS brand name still carved on it, get DragonQuest 8.  That\'s right, wanna curry the Japanese\'s favor, use a game.  You think they hate American products, don\'t give me that BS, they just don\'t like MS, period.  But if you put a series they love on what they hate, they have no choice but to buy it.  They still know its about the games, despite them buying a system for DVD only according to Docjizz...docwiz...Dwarrior, wtfever his name is.  DOn\'t give me this "rising from the ashes" crap, it\'s just a console... what is it with people on this forum using religious tones for gaming?  blah.

It\'s fine if the Japanese gamers HATE Microsoft, but it\'s mind-boggling why American gamers do.

No, it\'s not.  If I could play Half Life on a mac with Counter-Strike, I would.  If I could play half the programs that are out as fast as the PC counterpart on the Mac, I would.  Truth is, they aren\'t and that pisses me off.  I don\'t have a choice when it comes to games, I have to buy a PC with windows to play the games that I want to enjoy as soon as they come out.  Things are not equal in the PC world and MS knows this and it really sucks.  They leave us with a lack of options and no one likes that.  Mind boggling?  I say that\'s a pretty simple reason for hatred.  Like if Sony was the only company making TV\'s and all they made was 31" Wega\'s that cost 2000 dollars.  Do you think you have enough for that?  What choice do you have if you want to watch TV and movies?  Then suppose the only competition didn\'t work with your Sony VCR or your Sony DVD player.  That would really suck and that is exactly my point.

So what if you hate Microsoft? Is that really a legit reason not to buy an American console?

I agree with that, it\'s not reason enough.  However, as I said, I dont like them not because they are MS, I don\'t like them because they bring nothing to the table, like stepping backwards.  Sticking with the TV analogy, suppose we all went the MS way.  We all have black and white TV\'s and MS comes out with the clearest black and white TV that\'s somehow all in highres, then up comes Nintendo and introduces the all new COLOR TV, which are you going to buy?  That\'s what I thought.

Are your reasons legitamate to begin with?

I think my reasons are more legitamate then yours for hating Sony.

exactly Ryu!
RevX you were told!
*school childen* owwwwwwwww

I won\'t like the x-box untill they bring something new to the console industy, and they have yet to, and don\'t look to do that... they are too used to taking it easy and sitting on their ass with windows, well thats going to change!

Originally posted by THX
Hmmmm, Japan seems to like small, cute things.  Their cars, icons, & the popularity of small electronics like tiny cell phones and mp3 players all scream portability and pocketability.  Computer games are considered a novelty in Japan, maybe because you need a PC that is the size of 5-6 PS2\'s to fully enjoy them?  I guess they just like small electronics and consider bulky gadgets to be a waste of space, whereas Americans love bigger and louder things.  But then again, they live on a crowded island where space (property) is more coveted.  Maybe it\'s in their blood...

I for one would love to see a console the 3/4 the size of an A/V receiver, strewn with cooling fans and heat sinks.  Videogames are still thought of as playtoys, mainly (imo)  due to their size and designs.  Take the N64 and PSOne for example.  Unless consoles break out of their shoddy exterior, many will think of them as mere playthings.  But you and I both know they are for playing...  games....... I mean.. uhh...  oh nevermind.


Denon AVR-5800 says, "I 0wN J00 7nD 1\'m g0nNa k1lL J00".


PSOne says, "I\'m a lil faggort, play with me."

PS- Please don\'t think of this as a psx bashing, I love all my ps games.

UM Why is that PSone playing Sonic adventure?

The moniter has Sonic on it cause they have it so you can hook other things up to it (systems, dvd players, vcrs).

Also, I\'ll add that Xbox is creative not in system design (although the design is fine), but in the creative support groups that MS hired that is working with developers to do new and exciting things. Any unbiased person who knows what they\'re talking about would agree.

Originally posted by EThugg
The moniter has Sonic on it cause they have it so you can hook other things up to it (systems, dvd players, vcrs).

Also, I\'ll add that Xbox is creative not in system design (although the design is fine), but in the creative support groups that MS hired that is working with developers to do new and exciting things. Any unbiased person who knows what they\'re talking about would agree.

No, only a biased person like you would agree.
Name one thing that MS has done creative and innovative to the console industy, and untill you do I will always shoot your creative crap down.

I can clear up the bit about why the Japanese are concerned about size. Japan is small and is quickly becoming overpopulated. Added to the fact that they have some of the highest real estate prices in the world. The average Japanese family lives in an apartment or a dwelling of equal size. Space is a very big issue for most Japanese. Everything\'s foldable, hideable, or just plain small. Their bathroom sink is attached to the toilet, just to give you an idea.

Originally posted by Teragen
I can clear up the bit about why the Japanese are concerned about size. Japan is small and is quickly becoming overpopulated. Added to the fact that they have some of the highest real estate prices in the world. The average Japanese family lives in an apartment or a dwelling of equal size. Space is a very big issue for most Japanese. Everything\'s foldable, hideable, or just plain small. Their bathroom sink is attached to the toilet, just to give you an idea.

Yes, that is part of the reason, but only part of the reason. Its just japaneesee are picky towards american products.

I have no problem with MS in the market if they further the develpment of the console industy but so far they have yet to do so.

**Edited for BS**

I don\'t want X-Box to succeed because it doesn\'t take any chances for its creativity or lack thereof. They created a controller that looks VERY similar to a DC pad, an old PC style architecture with a few bells and whistles, no DVD support out of the box, and the longest list of ports I have ever seen. Wanna know why I hate the X-Box? Because it brings absolutely nothing to the table of innovation.

However misguided you are, I must respect your opinion.  However I\'d like to make a rebuttal.  I believe different from you on the fact that a gaming system has to be "creative".  Microsoft doesn\'t care about being "creative" as far as system design goes.  A console\'s "creativity" has nothing to do with what really matters, and that\'s the games.  What Xbox brings to the table though are resources to help the developers be creative.  The developers are the only ones who need to be creative and that\'s all I or any other gamer should worry about.  The technology Microsoft has provided is the best technology to create games on.  That\'s why it has the PC architecture.  Every developer already knows how to program for Xbox, so they can spend all their time creating great content instead of wrestling with new hardware.  Xbox may be like a PC inside, but there\'s no doubt that it will be the most powerful machine on the market this fall.  As for the games...don\'t judge yet because we haven\'t seen all the Xbox exclusives from Microsoft and their second parties.  You and anyone else who makes the "portbox" argument are being a bit hasty.  Reserve your argument until after E3.  Right now you\'re merely speculating since most of the REVEALED titles can be found on other platforms.  By the way, for every port you can name for the Xbox, I can name one for the PS2.

About the controller: If it ain\'t broke, don\'t fix it.  Microsoft designed many controllers (they even had one shaped like an "X"!!) and tested them all over the world.  Gamers chose the DC-like design, not Microsoft.  It seems as if Sega\'s design passed the focus groups and research labs.  However, Microsoft has tweaked the design so that it is much more comfortable than the DC pad.  You have to realize that MS just doesn\'t design a controller and say, "Okay, this is it!"  No, they test, test, and test!    I\'ll say it again, Microsoft didn\'t choose the controller, the gamers that tested it chose it.  The majority chose the DC-like design period.  Maybe you should have signed up for the focus group Ryu.  Every vote counts!
 

The NGC\'s console design is innovative, a compact cube that had never been done before with a controller that looks different from every controller devised today. The PS2 is the first console to utilize DVD playback as a built in feature and the first console to utilize streaming technology as its main program medium and its the first console with pressure sensitive buttons on its controller. The Dreamcast is the first controller to utilize VMU features and full fledged internet play.

As for innovation, Xbox is the first GAME MACHINE with a built in HDD and an Ethernet port.  Unlike a "compact design" and the VMU that have added no innovation to GAMES, the Xbox\'s HDD and Ethernet WILL add innovation to GAMES.  However, I\'ll refrain from explaining this since individuals such as yourself need tangible proof.  The DVD movie playback adds absolutely NOTHING to the GAMES.  This is all a matter of Microsoft and Sony\'s philosophies.  The Xbox is a GAME MACHINE, while PS2 is the Sony Corporation all in one box.  Any thing wrong with that?  Depends on who you ask.  Microsoft did not include DVD movie playback in the box because the developers didn\'t want it.  It\'s all about keeping them happy.  Developers were worried about the PS2 situation...keep in mind that the Konami\'s and the EA\'s won\'t make money off of DVD movie sales.  They wanted to make sure that their games would sell and so Microsoft included DVD movie playback as an OPTION.  Ryu, do you have a PS2?  Do you watch DVD movies?  If so, did you purchase a remote and reciever for it?  Thank you.  Excluding DVD movie playback will have zero effect on the games.  Just as you complain about Xbox not having movie playback, I can complain about PS2 lacking a HDD/Ethernet, except my complaint would be legit.  A HDD/Ethernet ADD-ON will split the GAMES market which is bad for Sony.  A $30 remote package for the Xbox does not.  If you want to watch movies, fine.  If you don\'t, fine.  But all Xboxes will be the same hardware-wise.  Can we say the same about PS2?
[/quote]

After reading all that, what does the X-Box offer us? I can\'t think of ANYTHING innovative. Not one damn thing that will effect the way I play games.

I can name TWO things on the Xbox that will effect the way you play games.

1. Hard Disk Drive
2. Ethernet

Name two things on the PS2 that will effect the way you play GAMES??  Ah!  I thought so.  I am in no way ragging on the PS2, but I just used that example to prove my argument.

exactly Ryu!
RevX you were told!
*school childen* owwwwwwwww

I won\'t like the x-box untill they bring something new to the console industy, and they have yet to, and don\'t look to do that... they are too used to taking it easy and sitting on their ass with windows, well thats going to change!

Unfortunately, I\'m obligated to myself to respect that opinion (no matter how convoluted it is).  I already revealed to Ryu what new things Xbox brings to the industry.  I\'m pretty sure you\'re talking about exclusive games right?  I can name a handful of exclusive games for the Xbox, but I won\'t do so because you are grounded deeply in your thinking.  For every PS2 exclusive title worth its salt, I can name one for Xbox.  Like I said before, for every Xbox "port" you list, I can list one for the PS2, maybe two.  The only problem I\'m going to have with that is that MS won\'t reveal the ton of exclusives that first and second parties are working on right now.  We\'ll see at GameStock in March.  Until then, you are basing your arguments on SPECULATION.  You think this way: "I don\'t know of many Xbox exclusives therefore there aren\'t that many."  That\'s the truth...you don\'t KNOW of any as of yet.  Like me, I advise all to reserve your judgement until GameStock, or even better, E3.  If we all do that then we\'ll all have FACTS to base our arguments on instead of SPECULATION.  Saying Xbox will have "mostly ports" is nothing but bold-face SPECULATION.  If I wanted to (and I will certainly not), I could call PS2 the PortStation2 because all it has are PSX and N64 ports.  However, I won\'t do that because it is STUPID and doing so would make me a HYPOCRITE.

Please, I emphasized LEGIT reasons to hate Xbox, not trumped up ones.

two things that the PS2 offers before ANY other console maker that affect gaming

1-DVD capacity
2-pressure sensitive analog buttons

sorry rev, had to do it


mm

The ps2 is the first console with
1.) Back-Compatiblity
2.) 2 USB ports
3.) Firewire (ILINK)
4.) Truely expandable console, with major plans
5.) DVD playback out of the box.
6.) to play your older games better
7.) modern design
8.) pressure sensative buttons
9.) DVD medium
10.) The first have ethernet/hardrive (sorry, they will be out before your x-box)

WOW! thats ten things
and you only have two
Both of which is not unique and the ps2 will accomplish before the x-box release
so in other words, what is so innovative about the x-box!
NOTHING!

I love how you take nothing, and try to make it into something and include to much bulls*it that it seems like alot.

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

Ps2 has done more for gaming then any system. Most of the systems are following it. HD/Eithernet, USB etc.

I believe different from you on the fact that a gaming system has to be "creative". Microsoft doesn\'t care about being "creative" as far as system design goes. A console\'s "creativity" has nothing to do with what really matters, and that\'s the games.

Think of it this way: Where would we be today if every console had the same design as Nintendo\'s NES?  No creativity in design, no improvement, just the tried and true to make developers happy.  Now, would you really be happy as a gamer with that prospect?  Remember my analogy between MS\'s hi-res B&W TV and Nintendo\'s color TV... would you prefer to make movies in color, as a director, or movies in a pretty B&W?  Now, if you had to choose which movies to see, would you see the color one or the B&W one... sure, the director could still make an equally impressive movie and make the audience feel for the characters and love the story, but having it in color is just so much more filling and real.  If the console does not innovate, then it bottle necks creativity.  New possibilities are opened up with improved hardware and new ideas.  Do you think Kojima could have thought of any other way to do certain actions for Snake without Sony\'s idea for pressure sensitive controllers?  More buttons?  Suppose by your logic if we still used the NES 8-bit pad.  I rest my case on that.

What Xbox brings to the table though are resources to help the developers be creative. The developers are the only ones who need to be creative and that\'s all I or any other gamer should worry about. The technology Microsoft has provided is the best technology to create games on. That\'s why it has the PC architecture. Every developer already knows how to program for Xbox, so they can spend all their time creating great content instead of wrestling with new hardware.

I am worried about their creativity.  Just how many second party games do you think can be made with the idea of 1/5th the dev power in mind?  I know MS will be able to put out probably one first party title by launch, then there\'s the second party titles, hindered by incomplete dev kits, and then finally we have all the ports.  Ports do not equal creativity no matter how much you sugar coat it with "extra features" and HD support.  PC architecture does not mean it will have better games then the PS2 and that\'s fact.

About the controller: If it ain\'t broke, don\'t fix it. Microsoft designed many controllers (they even had one shaped like an "X"!!) and tested them all over the world. Gamers chose the DC-like design, not Microsoft. It seems as if Sega\'s design passed the focus groups and research labs. However, Microsoft has tweaked the design so that it is much more comfortable than the DC pad.

Hypocrite.  I remember you *****ing about Sony using a dual shock 2 as their main controller and saying that it wasn\'t innovative cept say the pressure sensitive buttons, another idea MS has carefully implemented.  Now, it\'s a controller that\'s much like that of a DC pad and you say "if it aint broke dont fix it"?  Oh what a load of crap.

You have to realize that MS just doesn\'t design a controller and say, "Okay, this is it!" No, they test, test, and test! I\'ll say it again, Microsoft didn\'t choose the controller, the gamers that tested it chose it. The majority chose the DC-like design period. Maybe you should have signed up for the focus group Ryu. Every vote counts!

Look, I\'m sure the gamers who thry brought in probably said "We like this, but we dont like this" and they changed it accordingly, suppose again those same gamers said "Make this like the DC controller but with a round D-Pad and a second analog stick like Sony\'s"... That\'s not creative at all.  I\'m sorry, but if you think 5000 numbnuts is enough to speak for the millions and millions of gamers in the world, then you are SADLY mistaken and the Japanese gamers have attested to this, quite openly I might add and to put it simply, they hate it, nuff said.

As for innovation, Xbox is the first GAME MACHINE with a built in HDD and an Ethernet port.

So, saying something will be built in instead of an add on is innovative?  Suppose Sega released a 32X all in one system, would that be innovative?  I don\'t think so.  Just goes to show that building something in does not mean innovation when another company will already have done it first.  Ethernet support and HDD\'s were announced for both Sega and Sony before MS was even taken seriously about their console so nuts to your supposed innovation brought to us by the almight MS.  :rolleyes:

Unlike a "compact design" and the VMU that have added no innovation to GAMES, the Xbox\'s HDD and Ethernet WILL add innovation to GAMES.

The VMU allows me for the first time in GAMING HISTORY to take my characters from the game, download them to my VMU and level them up or improve them while I am away from my console, then, when I take the character back the next day, I can look at my VMU for all his statistics while I roam free on a clear game screen without worrying about seeing health because it\'s on my controller.  Lets also not forget that the VMU allows me to see how certain motions are performed from a game on my controller ala, shenmue when doing moves.  You should know that though, you supposedly play it a lot more then any PS2 games. :rolleyes:

The DVD movie playback adds absolutely NOTHING to the GAMES. This is all a matter of Microsoft and Sony\'s philosophies. The Xbox is a GAME MACHINE, while PS2 is the Sony Corporation all in one box. Any thing wrong with that? Depends on who you ask. Microsoft did not include DVD movie playback in the box because the developers didn\'t want it. It\'s all about keeping them happy.

Lets see, just using the DVD format in the console for the first time adds a lot to games seeing as how it allows for the largest amount of space on any format in gaming history, another idea MS is now using.  Lets also not forget that Sony lovs its developers as much as MS does supposedly and it sounds like Squaresoft is pretty happy where they are, especially since they have yet to announce their loyalty to MS even though you said they would at the CES, another sermon wasted right, Revvy?  

Also, lets not praise the X-Box for being a game machine here when it is CLEARLY more then that when it has an HD and an ehternet port and DVD playback.  Having it to where it can play DVD\'s with or without the inclusion of a remote does not make it ANY LESS of a DVD player then Sony\'s machine.  you said "so what, 30 bucks for a remote" well, now, that\'s a bit of a double edged sword isn\'t it?  To make developers happy, you gotta pay 30-50 extra dollars, does that make you happy especially when that money could be used towards a game or some other peripheral?

Developers were worried about the PS2 situation...keep in mind that the Konami\'s and the EA\'s won\'t make money off of DVD movie sales. They wanted to make sure that their games would sell and so Microsoft included DVD movie playback as an OPTION.

Last I checked, develoeprs were pleased with the sales of the PS2 software given the amount available to the public as present.  So, what\'s your point?  Sure, developers don\'t make any money off of DVD sales, but it seems they are making plenty of money off of gamesales instead.  Developers unhappy about DVD playback?  I think that\'s a rumor you can put to rest after past Christmas sales of the PS2 software dont you think, Revvy?

Ryu, do you have a PS2? Do you watch DVD movies? If so, did you purchase a remote and reciever for it? Thank you.

Actually, no I didn\'t at first.  I was content with the controller and can easily say that for every person who has a ps2, not all of them have a remote and are content with their controller, but the fact of having a choice for their medium is great, something MS does not give you since you end up paying for the DVD player REGARDLESS of the remote you buy, unless they drop the price of the console and make the remote cost 200 dollars which I seriously doubt they will do.

Excluding DVD movie playback will have zero effect on the games. Just as you complain about Xbox not having movie playback, I can complain about PS2 lacking a HDD/Ethernet, except my complaint would be legit. A HDD/Ethernet ADD-ON will split the GAMES market which is bad for Sony. A $30 remote package for the Xbox does not. If you want to watch movies, fine. If you don\'t, fine. But all Xboxes will be the same hardware-wise. Can we say the same about PS2?

The fact that you miss is that the consumer STILL pays for a DVD player in the console as well.  what\'s the point of paying extra for a feature you may or may not use.  Lets put that to test again with ethernet support.  How many people in the US and Japan really have broadband support?  Not nearly as much as the 56K market by a long shot, but hey, with the PS2, we got a choice thanks to the USB ports on the front of the machine and current USB modems, but I guess that Ethernet I am paying extra money for is useless if I dont have broadband, right?  Lets also not forget the implication of an HD for games is useful only in the way for saving the entire game to the HD and decreasing load times, but that doesn\'t mean load times are non existant at all, and what good is dling certain expansions for games if I don\'t have BB in my house... does that mean I payed all this money so games load faster?  hah, pure genius when it comes to money suction on MS\'s part, but you buy into it as if it was the greatest thing since canned ham. :rolleyes:

Now answer this, do I have to pay extra for the HDD and the ethernet adapter if I dont have BB in my house?  Not with Sony.  You see, no games, I repeat, NO GAMES will require a HDD for the Sony system.  Sure, there will be benefits to having both the BB and the HDD, but by no means will you need it to play your favorite games just like how Sega does not require you to go online to dl certain things that would fix bugs in the game, but if you ever wanted to, you HAVE THE OPTION of doing so.  Unlike X-Box, you pay for peripherals, expensive ones at that, that you may or may not use... I may not buy a DVD remote, but I pay for it anyways and I may not have BB, but I have to buy that ethernet adapter anyways... and if I have a 56K service?  Well, I guess I am **** out of luck then huh?  Oh well.

I can name TWO things on the Xbox that will effect the way you play games.

1. Hard Disk Drive
2. Ethernet

But Sony offers them first, so what\'s your point on them offering it when it\'s clear that Sony will be the first to offer an HDD and Sega is the first to offer Ethernet support?  What exactly is MS bringing when the ideas are already done?

As for games, all you want is better graphics and you can tell that by your sig so you don\'t even qualify to speak of such things ok, revvy?