Gamecube 1.5 GB Disks

What do you all think of Nintendo opting to have custom-made optical disks for the Gamecube. They are 8cm wide, but only hold 1.5 GB, about one-third the space of a regular DVD disk.

NINTENDO\'S REASON
The main reason Nintendo opted for an exclusive mini-disk is for pirating reasons. DVD disks are now very easy to pirate, whereas this new optical disk will require new "burners" that will be able to crack the complicated coding. The downside to all this protection against piracy is that the disks will only hold 1.5GB. Although that is an amazing amount of disk space (more than twice the space of a Playstation CD), it still does not compare to the 4.8 GB of a PS2 or X-Box DVD.

DOES IT MATTER?
Many are enraged at Nintendo, blaming them for making the same mistakes they did with the Nintendo 64. This is what I think. 1.5 GB is an incredible amount of space, and although I would have preffered if Nintendo had found some way to make the Matsu****a-made disks hold more it will help them keep down the pirating that occured with so many Playstation games. Thus, they get more of a profit.

The truth is that most Playstation 2 games that are on shelved at this moment do not use the DVD disks, because they do not need the space and those disks are much more expensive. Therefore developers are not buying these 4.8GB space disks yet. The only instance in which games will require this much space is for loads of movie cut-scenes and music. Therefore, Nintendo has made it so that their mini-disks are around the same price as a Playstation CD, and if developers need more space they can always put games on multiple disks. No one ever complained about those in the past.

Another option was that these disks could be used for future handhelds, but I find that these disks would be too large for a "handheld".

IS THIS BAD OR GOOD?
Reply to this thread and tell me what you think about the optical mini-disks, and whether or not they will ultimately help Nintendo and developers, or go the way of the cartridge.

Hey is this the same Saotome from Zaibatsu and IRC?  Anyways, I think this decision will help Nintendo in the long run.  No matter what you think, piracy does cut in on company profits and is a pain for small developers trying to hit it big in the $6+ billion videogaming industry.

Besides you can use both sides of the optical disc for 3 gigs of data.  It\'s FMV that is the real megabyte hogger.  We all know Nintendo prefers to use real-time graphics instead of pre-rendered cut scenes.  Look at MGS or Zelda; they have no pre-ren. cut-scenes and they are considered to be videogame classics.  And when you think about it, FMV is only good for one viewing.  After that most game players just FF to the next level when coming across it again.

Bottom Line- 1.5 - 3gb of raw data is more than enough for modern gaming.  But we will see...

I think it is good for Nintendo to go for that type of media.

Lets go back years when the Nintendo 64 was released in Japan. 2 Days later the Doctor 64 backup unit was released. This was a masterpiece to games because games were only 4-32megs. Easily found on the internet. Nintendo has done very well on there own software sales. But alots has been lost because of these backup units.

Hence for the Gamecube it is best to go this way. Because we can all see that piracy continues with the Dreamcast and PS2. Maybe Nintendo will finally break that barrier.

We ShAlL SeE..

"Many are enraged at Nintendo, blaming them for making the same mistakes they did with the Nintendo 64."

Then these people are pissed off for a stupid and moot reason. What they should really be concerned about is what Nintendo plans to do with their licencing fees. Yeah, these smaller disks won\'t hold as much info as a standard DVD disk. Big deal, it\'s not the same problem as what the N64 had since CD\'s can be swapped wheras cartridges cannot. Therefore, how much data is the NGC limited to per game? As much as it needs.. you just do a lot more swapping than with the PS2\'s DVD\'s. It\'s not like the N64 where you had ONE 64meg cart being an absolute total.

Now this is where their licencing fees come in. Since the Mini-DVD\'s are proprietary.. Nintnedo could ask whatever price they want for them, expecially if they impose some sort of "You must buy the disks from us or you don\'t produce the game" sort of sanction. How much will they charge? Will they charge per game or per disk? How are they planning to update developers with this new burning/encryption hardware? How much will that cost? These are the questions you need answers to before accusing Nintendo of pulling the same mistakes as they did with the N64.

Mark my words though, developers WILL begin regularly making games that fill even the 4.5 gig DVD\'s within two years time.

[Living-In-Clip]

I think it is an excellent choice for Nintendo, but some people get the disc confused as just another form of the expensive cartridge choice. It isn\'t. Cartridges are extremely pricey to manufactor, where as the mini-disc isn\'t. And just because it is a proprietary  format, doesn\'t mean it will be expensive. Remember, the GD-ROM was for Sega, and it was no more expensive (maybe less expensive) then the current PS2 games that are on DVD.

The GC can compress textures at a 10:1 ratio, which saves a huge amount of space for the disc. Then, take in account if for some reason the game needs to be larger they can always throw in another disc just like in the regular CD days. There is little reason to think the small disc will deliver a smaller game then the PS2. As it currently stands, none of the developers are taking advantage of the massive space on DVDs and when they do, it will probably be mostly fancy cinemas.

Also, SonyFan does bring up a good point. Due to the format being proprietary, Nintendo could charge as much as they want for the games. I don\'t think they will, but they could. One of the biggest flaws for the N64 was the cartridge format and the price of games. Legend of Zelda: Majora\'s Mask is $70 dollars! So is Conkers Bad Fur Day. That is alot to pay for a game. We will have to wait and see if Nintendo is going to charge us out of the ass for GC games, but I doubt they will. If they charged near $70 dollars for a game this time around, it would be suicide.

But, piracy will continue. Matsuhita will be producing their own version of the GC that will play DVDs, so in theory someone could copy the contents of the Mini-disc onto a DVD-R and then use it on that unit. Of course, for this to happen DVD recorders would have to come down on price and become more mainstream. When this happens, Sony will also find itself being pirated like with the original PSone. And there is no \'fool-proof\' way for Nintendo to gurantee no one pirates the games. Remember folks, there is always someone out there that is looking for a way to get free games and there is always a way. Just takes one guy (or gal) with alot of free time to discover it.

Wow! I\'m actually quite surprised at the positive response here, and I\'m happy most of you see it the same way I do. Oh, and THX, I\'m not at Zaibatsu or IRC, but I do post at the Enix and HTLOZ message boards.

About prices for these disks. Nintendo truly wants to become competitively priced with the Gamecube, so I think around launch time to expect the same sort of prices that current PS2 game have, and that then the prices will lower as the system becomes available.

proprietory disks = more money for nintendo

they jacked developers with cart costs, now they get to do it again

good grief

Originally posted by mm
proprietory disks = more money for nintendo

they jacked developers with cart costs, now they get to do it again

good grief

If you read anything above, maybe you\'d realize that Nintendo will be distrbuting its disks at a price similar to the Playstation CDs. And like Living-In-Clip mentioned above, the Sega Dreamcast also had its own little exclusive disk, the GD-ROM, which was not too expensive for developers.

And Nintendo power said that 236 Super Mario 64 fit into one disc! That is really powerful, and Way a go Nintendo!

I agree with everything said here except the part about Nintendo only using Real-time graphics.
Im sure the only reason Nintendo didnt use real-time graphics on the N64 was because they wouldnt fit.
Dont be surprised if you start seeing a lot of FMV\'s on the Gamecube.

Faith- "Real-time graphics" are considered to be raw data rendered on the fly by the machine\'s internal gpu & cpu.  The data is saved as a set of instructions of which poly goes where, leaving the console to do the hard work, thus saving starage space on the medium.  Nintendo did this all the time with the N64, with great results imo.

FMV is prerendered material, pre-processed on a graphics workstation, then saved as bulky video & audio information on the storage medium.  It looks pretty but takes up a hell of a lot of space.

Originally posted by Crippler
I think it is good for Nintendo to go for that type of media.

Lets go back years when the Nintendo 64 was released in Japan. 2 Days later the Doctor 64 backup unit was released. This was a masterpiece to games because games were only 4-32megs. Easily found on the internet. Nintendo has done very well on there own software sales. But alots has been lost because of these backup units.

Hence for the Gamecube it is best to go this way. Because we can all see that piracy continues with the Dreamcast and PS2. Maybe Nintendo will finally break that barrier.

We ShAlL SeE..

Unlikely. GC has quite a few expansion ports. So? So like V64 or whatever that cdr system is, a backup drive could be used, like a hdd or in the future maybe, a dvdr drive, custom fit to  GC. Pir8s always find a way... unfortunatly for them, and fortunatly for Nintendo, with GC it may be so hard, or expensive that it doesnt catch on like the current situation...




I\'m all for the mini DVDs, I\'m mean, 1.5 gig is more than enough space, and theyre so friggin cool looking!

Originally posted by Red_Hair_Dude
And Nintendo power said that 236 Super Mario 64 fit into one disc! That is really powerful, and Way a go Nintendo!

and nintendo power = full of crap

236 x 32 megs = 7552 megs

Originally posted by mm


and nintendo power = full of crap

236 x 32 megs = 7552 megs

Actually, you can just use math for that equation mm. It was not only Nintendo Power that stated this.

People in this day and age still read Nintendo Power? Sheesh.

- dm
- what\'s in the f\'cking box?