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Author Topic: why in sci fi films?????  (Read 2329 times)

Offline Black Samurai
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« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2001, 09:16:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Samwise
Well, believe it or not, but other countries don\'t go around talking about the US all the time. Outside US people know it\'s not the center of the world, but some Americans are full off it.


I never said that they did. It is just when something happens involving the US other countries feel the need to down us for it.

As for American ****iness, I have to agree that it is the media that causes this perception. Americans have been fed pro-US propaganda since birth and will be fed it until death. That is just the way it is and there will still be jackass yanks until China or some other opportunistic nation knocks us off the top of the heap.
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Offline Darth Joyda
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« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2001, 09:40:25 AM »
This discussion has gone far deeper than I first thought it would - and I brought the ID4-movie-subject partly as a \'joke\', but it had some point to it. It is just my personal hatred - hatred towards \'clichè\', and \'clichè\' to me these days is America saving the world.

Take Armageddon for example - pure action movie, americans save the day, and the russian ( wich is the only foreign key-character may I remind ) is suddenly funny - mostly because of the accent. Armageddon = Big American Clichè.

So I agree with SmallLady - you can see the media is spreading comedy on the subject she spoke about.
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Offline Black Samurai
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« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2001, 10:00:45 AM »
OMG!! Its an AMERICAN movie!!! How is that cliche? Does the US save the world in English movies? How about Australian? Give me a break.

I don\'t want to sound like one of those c0cky americans that people dislike but how can you fault an american filmaker for having american heroes? That is something that I just don\'t understand.
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Offline Darth Joyda
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« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2001, 10:08:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gohan
OMG!! Its an AMERICAN movie!!! How is that cliche? Does the US save the world in English movies? How about Australian? Give me a break.


Actually I mean the overall of these \'cheesy\' movies, examples are Armageddon and ID4 for christ\'s sakes :)
They\'re hollywood mega-movies - I don\'t care if Americans save the world all over again if the movie is GOOD rather than full of cheesy \'comments\' and quessable ending.

The clichèness in those films is just the impossibility - how can a crew of oil-bumpers become skilled astronauts, or even able to be in a shuttle take-off, after, what, two weeks of practise?

I just hate movies of those kinds.. and it IS pretty funny after ALL that americans save the world if the problem is considering the whole world. They do make the American President look like the center of the world. I appreciate movies like Jackal ( and usually those who are based on TRUE stories ), where even a small country like Finland is presented.

Don\'t take everything so word to word, nor be so aggressive - in other words, give ME a break, Gohan :)
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Offline Faithdies
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« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2001, 10:19:53 AM »
You know,
Im from America, and I think our government is ****ty.
But, I mean come on.
When people made Independence Day, they didnt think, "Ohh, America is so much better than every country, they HAVE to save the world."
They though,"We are from America, AMERICANS are from AMERICA.America Saves the world."
Are you telling me they arnt any Denmarkian Movies where someone from Denmark saves the world.Or from Finnland?
They make movies "Cheesy" cause women like the Romantisiscm, and men like the Suspense.
Easy.

The reason America is ****y is because of WWII.
We know that without us, the world might be under the yoke of the Nazi Regime, so we feel you all owe us or something.

Offline Ryu
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« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2001, 11:00:43 AM »
You guys all need to put down the Goddamn crackpike and open your f*cking eyes.  First, not all Americans think they are the best in the world.  If the ones that you have talked to about America from America represents your stereotype of us, then you are as blind and ignorant as you think us Americans are.  Lets also not forget that there really is no "Americans" to begin with in conforms to the stereotypes represented in this thread.  Remember, the only true Americans are the ones called "Native-Americans" and settlers from many other countries decided it would be a good idea to flush them out and take over their land.  How many movies have you seen where the Native-American was the hero?  Hell, the only one that I can think of that even comes close, and by no stretch of the imagination was he the true hero, was Chief Bromden in One flew Over the Cuckoo\'s Nest.

The fact is, America is made up of about every single race and religion represented in the world.  We have at least well over 100 people representing nearly every culture and country within our borders.  Our billions of Americans are merely only Americans by label.  We are the representation of the entire world and that\'s a fact you are all going to have to face.  You can stereotype us all you want, but in some shape way or form, you are inherintly stereotyping your own people.  America is the first country to successfully combine THOUSANDS of cultures into one large culture while still maintaining a stature of world power and allowing those people to speak for themselves.  The next time you label any one American as being ****y or biased, you might want to ask that American what his heritage is and you just might be shocked that his ancestors came from a country not too distant from your own.  The only question I have to ask is, "why would anyone want to leave from your oh-so-great countries and want to come to this supposed sh*t-hole in the first place?"

I\'m not saying anything along the lines of "You don\'t like it, leave or don\'t come here," but I am saying that you should all realise that before you sterotype us, you are all really stereotyping yourselves.

Lastly, just as was said before, million dollar budget movies funded by American companies for the supposed "American Culture" are obviously going to cater to their target audience.  Cloud looks inherintly Japanese... but he saved the world... Squall looks inherintly Japanese\\American, but he saved the world... Fei from Xenogears looks pretty damn Japanese and again, he saved the world.  Leo looks pretty damn Japanese, even though he grew up in Jupiter and yet again, he saved the (station).  I accept that fact entirely when it comes to games, but people have a hard time accepting movies or films?  Get over it.  If you can play a game designed by a Japanese creator where a Japanese man or woman saved the Earth and say "that was the most fun I\'ve ever had," then can\'t you get over your evil American sterotypes and say "that movie was pretty damn good, lets go watch it again"?

Jesus Christ, us Americans have it the hardest as any other country because we are looked on as the country that represents the whole friggin planet.  I dont see anyone else putting their hopes behind China or Russia as a representative of the planet.  This is not a knock on other countries, but America is seen as the country that all others should live by.  So if we f*ck up at some point in time, namely the Vietnam war, we are frowned upon, but if we pull through and do something everyone likes, namely WW2, we are loved beyond belief, but if we don\'t do anything recently that really impacts the world in some quasi-illuminated way, we\'re looked down on.  It\'s the "what have you done for me lately" clause.  It\'s sad really, but I\'m sure Pearl Harbor will be a VERY popular movie in Japan even though it\'s a true story. :rolleyes:
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Offline nO-One

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« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2001, 11:05:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Faithdies
so we feel you all owe us or something.


I\'m sorry big brother :( but the Naziz were teazing us at school.

The thing that get\'s on my nerves is how people generalize countries.
Like all Icelanders live in igloo\'s (spelling?) because our countrie\'s name starts with ice.Naziz were German,thus all German\'s have to be Naziz.Every Australian fights crocodiles in their free time because they saw it on Crocodile Hunter (I love that show btw).All russian\'s are either big fat drunks,or secret agent\'s.All American\'s are either rednecks,or just full them selves and patriotism etc...

Ignorance is no excuse :D
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Offline Black Samurai
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« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2001, 11:12:45 AM »
Hey Ryu, Before anyone tries to flame you and what not, I want to say that I agree with you wholeheartedly. I remember in High School how Jamaicans would tell me how sucky the US was and I would say "Why the HeII are you here?" to which they would respond, "There are better opportunities here than in my country." WTF is that?!?!

BTW, I am part Native-American(Algonquin - Wampanoag to be specific) so I can claim to be American. :D
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Offline Ryu
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« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2001, 12:25:48 PM »
Quote
Hey Ryu, Before anyone tries to flame you and what not, I want to say that I agree with you wholeheartedly. I remember in High School how Jamaicans would tell me how sucky the US was and I would say "Why the HeII are you here?" to which they would respond, "There are better opportunities here than in my country." WTF is that?!?!

BTW, I am part Native-American(Algonquin - Wampanoag to be specific) so I can claim to be American.


I know I\'m gonna get flamed for what I said and frankly, I don\'t care.  I\'m so sick of this forum being made up of so many different ethnicities and cultural backgrounds other then "American" and us "Americans" get flamed the most concerning country comparison.  I\'m sick of that crap and so many people here place stereotypes on us "Americans" without even realising it.  You want to stereotype people in your spare time because you think our country is ****ty, that\'s fine, but don\'t expect to just get away with it.  

I mean come on, you people started flaming Americans simply because we use American heroes in AMERICAN movies.  I\'m sure you all have your own damn movies with your own damn heroes and none of us say a damn thing about them, but I guess being the most popular and most successful nation in the world sure does get you a lot of criticisms.  We\'re sorry we love entertainment and make the best movies suitable for importing in many different languages to many different countries, but if you have a problem with the way that we make them, then piss off because no one is forcing you to watch any of them.  i\'m sure your own country has their own forms of entertainment, so b*tch about them for a change and leave us alone.
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Offline FatalXception
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« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2001, 12:46:36 PM »
I\'m in Canada\'s capital, but I visit waterloo U all the time (friends there).  I think the reason Canadians tend not to like American culture is that we are very simmilar in many ways, but we have totally different viewpoints on major issues.  For instance, I don\'t know ONE Canadian who likes Bush or the Republicans.

I personally only have a problem with the fact that Americans tend to be "consumers" to the extreme.  They want to turn their deserts into lush lands (using Canadian bought water - what were we thinking!), climate control all of their houses and cars, and have a standard of living which, to be honest, means hurting both the environment and smaller countries.

Now I realize it\'s unfair to generalize like that, but if you have ever seen the CBC (Canadian Radio/TV) show "this hour has 22 minutes" where they went to the states to ask everyday people/university profs/politicians questions about Canada, you would realize that most Americans don\'t know or care about anything outside of their own country.

Getting politicians (ie state governors, university proffs) to say stuff like "congratulations canada on your first university", or "congratulations canada on calling your money \'the dollar\' like us!" just shows that there are many Americans who don\'t look beyond their own shores.

RYU - The problem for the movies occurs in things like U571.  The movie says based on a true story.  TRUE.  It says very close to the truth. TRUE.  An american sub is the hero.  FALSE.   It was a british sub.  Now, I don\'t think  that making that sub british would have made the movie much less popular, and the problem with the way it is, is that many people end up believing just what they saw.  Titanic - for drama, the shiphand shoots some people trying to get onto the lifeboats - and again "based on truth", so people believe that part of the story.  Real life?  That man was acclaimed as a hero, he helped the people get on the boats, and then went back aboard to go down with the ship.  He was a huge hero in his home town, and they were outraged by his portrayal in the film (why use his real name and rank if you are going to turn him into a murderer that kills himself?!!?).
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Offline Ryu
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« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2001, 02:46:18 PM »
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RYU - The problem for the movies occurs in things like U571. The movie says based on a true story. TRUE. It says very close to the truth. TRUE. An american sub is the hero. FALSE. It was a british sub. Now, I don\'t think that making that sub british would have made the movie much less popular, and the problem with the way it is, is that many people end up believing just what they saw. Titanic - for drama, the shiphand shoots some people trying to get onto the lifeboats - and again "based on truth", so people believe that part of the story. Real life? That man was acclaimed as a hero, he helped the people get on the boats, and then went back aboard to go down with the ship. He was a huge hero in his home town, and they were outraged by his portrayal in the film (why use his real name and rank if you are going to turn him into a murderer that kills himself?!!?).


The explanation for this is quite easy.  When anyone uses any historical documents from anything for a major motion picture, the adage used is "BASED on a true story."  It\'s true that Saving Private Ryan was also BASED on a true story and told as accurately as possible.  Directors and the like change certain elements to further make the story more compelling such as a Private in the 32nd airborne losing all his brothers and now needing to go home and live out his days with his mother.  Was there really a Nazi sniper who killed Captain Miller on the bridge in some backwater city called Ramel?  It doesn\'t matter really.  The fact is, it was a compelling story based on facts taken from that era to make an interesting film.  The same can be said with just about ANY story based on ANY historical actions.  Unless the film is a documentary, you can count on certain aspects to be changed in order to make the film more compelling.

Just watch Pearl Harbor when it comes out.  Certain characters are real while others are not, but the ones added will make the story more compelling to the audience.  I\'m learning about all this junk in screenplays and in fact I am writing a Screenplay myself based on certain events leading to WW2.  Sure, the events I describe may not have happened, but there is a certain believable truth to them nonetheless that further emerses a fan into a film.  You can be mad about that all you want, but in any case, both movies made a bunch of cash and everyone who saw them walked away saying "that MOVIE was pretty decent" or "That MOVIE totally sucked."  It\'s a movie, really, get over it.
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Offline FatalXception
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« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2001, 02:56:50 PM »
My problem isn\'t that they change stuff, it\'s that they too selectively change it.  That guy in Titanic.  Fine, it\'s dramatic to have some ship\'s crewman shoot the pushy men trying to get women outta the boat, then kill himself.  Take the artistic liscense, by all means.  BUT don\'t try and be "realistic" and use a real man\'s name and rank, so that if you don\'t know the true story (and most don\'t), it will make most people think that that\'s how it really happened.  Therein lies the problem.  If you change major details like changing 100% of the crew to american from british, it\'s no longer "based on a real story".  It\'s a total fabrication.  

Newho, it\'s time for futurama :D  cyaround.
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Offline Kenshin
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« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2001, 03:25:51 PM »
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im not a sci fi geek, but i thought about it when watching star wars. Earth is small planet with loads of different languages, but in the films say the planet "artilla" every one speaks "artillian" you know just one languge for a whole god damn planet, if our small world has got lot of different ones,with different accents, how come a different planet has one language and there accents are all the same, if there was a planet some parts in the past would not be able to be got to by certain people, e.g huge ocean in between countries, so the likelyhood of them every begining to evolve and talk the same as people hundreds of miles apart and never met or are gonna meet is very unlikely


THat was the original topic...how did it blossom into on how American sucks or how it doenst suck and stereoptypes and what not. Jeebus stick with the topic for crying out loud.
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Offline Coredweller
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« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2001, 04:27:19 PM »
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Originally posted by FatalXception
My problem isn\'t that they change stuff, it\'s that they too selectively change it.  That guy in Titanic.  Fine, it\'s dramatic to have some ship\'s crewman shoot the pushy men trying to get women outta the boat, then kill himself.  Take the artistic liscense, by all means.  BUT don\'t try and be "realistic" and use a real man\'s name and rank, so that if you don\'t know the true story (and most don\'t), it will make most people think that that\'s how it really happened.  Therein lies the problem.  If you change major details like changing 100% of the crew to american from british, it\'s no longer "based on a real story".  It\'s a total fabrication.  


FatalXception:

In case no one else says it, YOU ARE RIGHT!!!  I never heard that story about the character from Titanic, but it doesn\'t surprise me one bit.  The only problem with your criticisms of american cinema is that in these two examples, your expectations are too high.  Both Titanic and U-571 were 100% pure unrefined CR@P.  The United States makes the biggest motion pictures ever made, we distribute them the widest, they usually make the most money, but we ALSO MAKE THE WORST MOVIES EVER MADE.  "LA Confidential" or even "As Good As It Gets" should have won best picture that year, but money talks, and it\'s the only god most AMPAS members pray to, so Titanic won instead.  When something is as bad as Titanic, I don\'t expect anything about it to be accurate, truthful, or display any integrity at all.  If you don\'t like it, do what I do:  Don\'t watch it.

Please keep the discussion going, but I think everyone\'s arguments would carry more weight if you\'d find something to criticise in the good things we\'ve done.  (I notice that no one\'s brought up the X-Files since I mentioned it.)  Otherwise you\'re just hitting below the belt.
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Offline Samwise
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« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2001, 11:28:08 PM »
Ryu, no offense, but I think you\'re stereotyping yourself. You \'\'seem\'\' (notice the \'\') to think everyone is critizising the US because you\'re so great, we\'re all jealous of you, our countries are ****e, yada yada yada. Here\'s a newsflash: We DON\'T talk about the US all the time, we DON\'T critisize the US all the time, we\'re NOT out to get you guys all the time. I see the US as a country like every other - it has flaws and it has strengths. Like ANY OTHER COUNTRY. That\'s the core point to me - America is a nation like the thousands of other countries that exists all over the world. Of course you guys are bigger and certainly plays a big role in the world, but to non-Americans our daily life doesn\'t *GASP* involve talking about/praising/dissing the US all the time.


I don\'t care about Will Smith saving the world in ID4, because I know it\'s an American movie made for Americans. I don\'t watch it to see a masterpiece in filmmaking, because then I certainly wouldn\'t be watching Hollywood summer blockbusters. They\'re made with one thing, and one thing only, in mind: $$$. It\'s people\'s own fault if they want true to life facts and deep thoughts from a Hollywood blockbuster. However, I think it can tend to be a problem - like in the submarine movie. Children/teens go watch the movie and thinks \'wow, based on a true story! How cool those Americans defeated the Nazis\' etc. If they rely on such historial \'facts\' from movies (and I\'m affraid lots of teens do) then they\'ll grow up with false information about that certain historical event. You might think that\'s just a small thing and irrelevant, but I think it can be a problem. At least if they don\'t learn the truth in school. Perhaps the filmmakers should think about the moral aspects of the information they\'ll send out to children - but I know they won\'t - they\'ll think \'how do we maximize profits... hmm, I know. Instead of those kinky Brits let\'s make the submarine crew American. Yes, that\'ll sell better...\'. Of course it doesn\'t matter to me, because I take it for what it is - mindless entertainment. But can you honestly say younger children will do the same?

*note, this is just for discussion and isn\'t meant for anyone in particular, so don\'t get all frenzy on me*
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