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Author Topic: What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?  (Read 1770 times)

Offline Living-In-Clip

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The thread about the PS2 hard drive was interesting, but died, and I didn\'t want to bring a dead thread up in the main forum, so I decided to give it a go here. So, I apologize ahead of time if everyone is sick of talking about the HD, but I am personally curious about how Sony can make the HD a runaway success. I posted quite abit in that thread after it was dead, and it went right back down the list, so I don\'t think anyone read that (\'cept OGodly), and I don\'t feel like typing it all again, so I\'ll just copy and paste it, and edit out some of the parts where I was responding to previous comments made,etc.

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Add-ons fail. Every add-on has failed, the only actual "add-on" that has worked was the Nintendo RAM package and still, you sometimes see games that should of used it--but didn\'t, i.e, Conkers Bad Fur Day.

Sony can very easily sell the ethernet adapter. NO problem. People with broadband will pay for something like that. A hardrive is another thing in general. Microsoft knew this, that is why the are selling the Xbox with a hardrive, and it was a smart move. Sony cannot and I don\'t care how much marketing they do make the HD add-on a true success. At best it will have limited novel appeal for online game "bonus" (i.e, extra levels). Wait, I rephrase. If Sony can sell the add-on at $20-$50 dollars and have plenty of compelling reasons to own the HD, then they could make this a runaway success. But, guess what?

1: They can\'t sell it for such a cheap price. Lets face it folks, you don\'t get 40 gig hardrives that cheap.

2: There is no actual compelling reason to shell out the money.

And where does this leave developers? Developers have to look at how many people bought the add-on and then develop for that number, which makes it very confusing and risky for developers. Developers know for a fact that every Xbox machine sold has a HD that can be used. But, now they will have to look at sell stats to see how many PS2 HD\'s was sold and debate if it is worth the extra cost and development or if they should (1) move to project over to the XBox or (2) scale it down and make it for the PS2 without HD support. A mixed enviorment is never a good thing, and that is exactly what Sony is creating.

Moving back to the first point of add-ons failing at the consumer level, you can look at any add-on like Sega\'s 32x, Nintendo\'s 64DD and Atari\'s Jaguar CD or even the vaporware 3DO M2 and see that the past of add-ons is not good. Consumers do not like to purchase something like a console and then be told that if they want to feel the "full potenial" of the console they need to shell out even more cash. Then I see some of you mentioning Sony eventually making PS2 units with the HD built in.. This is a actually a good point, but a few problems..

1: As mentioned by someone else (Gohan, I believe) this is a direct slap in the face to those who stood out in the rain and cold for a PS2 on the launch. Sony does not need to upset so many gamers.

2: They could very likely knock the PS2 price down $100 and then make a bundle package that includes the HD for a total of the already common price of $300, but market confusion will still exist. The basic consumer isn\'t smart and if they see a PS2 that says $200 that is missing a HD and then they see one that is $300 that has this "device", they are most likely going to purchase the cheaper of the two, unless compelling titles exist that make them want to use the extra $100 for the add-on.

Overall, the add-on has a very grim fate.
I will eventually, maybe pick one up, not quite sure. I know I won\'t pick up a broabband adapter, as my satelite service doesn\'t allow online gaming , etc. And if the HD is only going to be used for extra things such as levels, there is no way I\'ll buy it. Come November, there will be two systems that I need to buy not an upgrade to a year old system that should still be holding its own games wise .


Lets see here, we will count add-ons that come to mind and add-ons that never even made it out of the development door for "unknown" reasons.

32X (Released) {failure}
Sega CD (released) {failure}
Jaguar CD (released) {failure }
64DD (released-Japan only) {massive failure}
M2 (not released) {3DO add-on }
Super CD (not released) {developed by Sony }

This is just the well known ones. If you do alittle research you can find more add-ons and it also depends on what you consider an add-on. Example; one could consider the RAM packages offered for the Saturn and Nintendo 64 as add-ons, and if so, you would need the sell stats for both the console and the amount of RAM packages sold. If the RAM packages do not at least meet HALF the console user base, then the RAM package would be considered a failure.

(And before someone mentions the DUAL SHOCK being an add-on. It wasn\'t. It was a controller. If you want to include it as an add-on, I will mention the ROBOT , POWER GLOVE, and many other obsecure 8-BIT controllers that did fail. But to be simple, it is not an add-on. It is a controller. Big difference.)

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So what do you guys think? What does Sony need to do to make the HD add-on a runaway success? Can they do it even? And how much are you willing to pay for it?

Offline SonyFan
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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2001, 12:11:19 AM »
They can either release it for dirt cheap, which won\'t happen because Sony would loose too much money. They could offer varrying sized HDD\'s.. like a 6 Gig, 10 Gig, 20 Gig, 40 Gig... all priced competitively so as to fit most all budgets.

They could also package a removable HDD in with the PS2. So say, hypothetically Sony sells 10 million consoles before they start packaging the HDD in. If they can reach the same userbase with the PS2 as they have with the PSX.. then it won\'t be a problem since 70 million people will own HDD enabled PS2\'s by the end of the console\'s life. It\'d be no different than developers designing games with the DualShock controlpad in mind on the original PSX. This will raise the price of the PS2.. So I don\'t know if Sony\'s really willing to do this with the Xbox and NGC launching this fall.

Overall, I\'d say Sony\'s stuck between a rock and a hard place unless they can convice some other company to absorb the price of the HDD in exchange for increased service. (AOL for example, might be willing to cover most of the HDD price in exchange for being the only ISP the PS2 will accept), or decrease the size of the HDD to accomedate a lower pricepoint.
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Offline Living-In-Clip

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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2001, 12:15:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SonyFan
They can either release it for dirt cheap, which won\'t happen because Sony would loose too much money. They could offer varrying sized HDD\'s.. like a 6 Gig, 10 Gig, 20 Gig, 40 Gig... all priced competitively so as to fit most all budgets.

They could also package a removable HDD in with the PS2. So say, hypothetically Sony sells 10 million consoles before they start packaging the HDD in. If they can reach the same userbase with the PS2 as they have with the PSX.. then it won\'t be a problem since 70 million people will own HDD enabled PS2\'s by the end of the console\'s life. It\'d be no different than developers designing games with the DualShock controlpad in mind on the original PSX. This will raise the price of the PS2.. So I don\'t know if Sony\'s really willing to do this with the Xbox and NGC launching this fall.

Overall, I\'d say Sony\'s stuck between a rock and a hard place unless they can convice some other company to absorb the price of the HDD in exchange for increased service. (AOL for example, might be willing to cover most of the HDD price in exchange for being the only ISP the PS2 will accept), or decrease the size of the HDD to accomedate a lower pricepoint.


Good points.

But, I don\'t see Sony offering different sized HD\'s as they have already commited to the 40 gig and they don\'t need to lend themself to further market confusion or price varations among PS2 units.

As for the AOL comment, err..It is a good idea, but if they do that, they will have alot of people pissed off who don\'t want to use AOL. I for one, am one of those people.

Which by the way, completely off topic, did you hear about AOL partnership with a wrist watch company? I can\'t remember which company it was though. I saw it on TechTV today. Can you imagine? ..

"You\'ve got time!".

Sheesh.
;)

Offline EThugg
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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2001, 12:20:05 AM »
They need to give it away. Plain and simple. Anything short of that, it will fail.
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Offline Bobs_Hardware

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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2001, 12:23:33 AM »
agreed, they need to give it away

Offline BizioEE

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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2001, 12:45:23 AM »
Killer-ap which take full advantage of the HDD...for example episode-games(The Next Gen Lara and The Lost,...,..I hope...)...
In this case I should very happy to spend extra hypothetical 50-75$ for games wich can last for a long long time...I\'m wondering why people is happy to spend 50 $ for a game to finish it in 2 or 3 days and are un-happy to spend extra 50-75$ to make games like,for example,The Next Gen Lara,The Lost,GT4,Twisted Metal Black,...etc,etc,etc....."infinite" games wich could last till the end of the Console......I can\'t wait for a hypothetical game like GT4 where you can download new courses,new cars,customized cars by people of all the world,new ultra powerful Engines etc etc etc...I should spend even 150$ only for This !!!(...well...I\'m a true Sim-Racing lover.....)

If Sony will show killer-ap wich take full advantage of the HDD...it will be a success !
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Offline EThugg
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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2001, 12:56:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BizioEE
I\'m wondering why people is happy to spend 50 $ for a game to finish it in 2 or 3 days and are un-happy to spend extra 50-75$ to make games like,for example,The Next Gen Lara,The Lost,GT4,Twisted Metal Black,...etc,etc,etc....."infinite" games wich could last till the end of the Console......



There\'s a great reason. I own it, and can play it whenever I want, forever. If I want to play it for 10 minutes, once a month, I can. With subscrption fees for online services, I HAVE to play, or I\'m throwing money away on nothing. I\'d rather buy Next Gen Lara 2, 3 etc, and be able to play it at my own pace.
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Offline BizioEE

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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2001, 01:19:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EThugg



There\'s a great reason. I own it, and can play it whenever I want, forever. If I want to play it for 10 minutes, once a month, I can. With subscrption fees for online services, I HAVE to play, or I\'m throwing money away on nothing. I\'d rather buy Next Gen Lara 2, 3 etc, and be able to play it at my own pace.


I don\'t agree EThugg !  ....you was a little superficial...once you finish a game like Tomb Raider(or any adventure),you lose that exciting stimulus you had at first...and I really doubt you can play a Game like Tomb Raider more than one or two times :)....I loved Tomb Raider on PSX...but I played it and finished it only one time !
Try to imagine an Episode-Tomb Raider where you live a "never-ending" adventure...and you have always the same great stimulus to finish each new episode...it should be great !

and why waiting 1 or 2 years for an upgrade version of a great game when I could download new levels,characters or courses and cars day by day ?
It should be great!
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Offline EThugg
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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2001, 01:27:23 AM »
I explained quite clearly why I would rather wait for a sequel. I can go at it at my own pace. If I\'m paying for Eidos\'s version of PlayOnline, I will feel rushed, cause I won\'t want to waste money on the service for such little benefit. Level/scenerio addons are fine when they\'re free. But they aren\'t here. You have to buy addons, and maybe subscribe to a service. It\'s not worth it to me, I\'d rather just buy the sequel. And to anyone who thinks I\'m biased, or giving MS a break, if they were selling addons seperatly, I wouldn\'t buy them, and if you have to pay special for XB\'s network access, I wont be doing that either.
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Offline Living-In-Clip

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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2001, 01:28:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BizioEE


I don\'t agree EThugg !  ....you was a little superficial...once you finish a game like Tomb Raider(or any adventure),you lose that exciting stimulus you had at first...and I really doubt you can play a Game like Tomb Raider more than one or two time :)....I loved Tomb Raider on PSX...but I played it and finished it only one time !
Try to imagine an Episode-Tomb Raider where you live a "never-ending" adventure...and you have always the same great stimulus to finish each new episode...it should be great !

and why waiting 1 or 2 years for an upgrade version of a great game when I could download new levels,characters or courses and cars day by day ?
It should be great!


Episode games have not been tested in the console market, obviously. So, Sony would be pioneering this idea, and that in itself is very risky for them. Not saying it is a bad idea , though.

We have to take in consideration something though. We will continue to use an episode based Tomb Raider game in this example. How big would these levels be? If they are too big (over a meg or two), it will turn off non-broadband users. And most people still don\'t have access to broadband. Now, obviously, if these updates / episodes are as small as a few 100k, then it won\'t be a problem for any users.

Another thing is, how much would this service cost? And how many games will support this service in an ACTIVE and CONSTANT manner? What I mean by this, is how many developers will make their game with this in mind and continue to support this technology, beyond one or two updates? Before they decide they could just devote their time and levels to a whole new game and release it in the actual market for $50 bucks. Obviously, if Core only released one or two episodes for Tomb Raider and there was only one car released for Twisted Metal Black, whatever you are paying for this service would not be worth it.

Offline BizioEE

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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2001, 05:11:55 AM »
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip

Quote


Episode games have not been tested in the console market, obviously. So, Sony would be pioneering this idea, and that in itself is very risky for them. Not saying it is a bad idea , though.



well...agreed...but every attempt to something new in the console market is risky! ...but...on the other hand,nothing ventured,nothing gained :)...I\'d like to see something new,something fresh in this market...

Quote


We have to take in consideration something though. We will continue to use an episode based Tomb Raider game in this example. How big would these levels be? If they are too big (over a meg or two), it will turn off non-broadband users. And most people still don\'t have access to broadband. Now, obviously, if these updates / episodes are as small as a few 100k, then it won\'t be a problem for any users.

Another thing is, how much would this service cost? And how many games will support this service in an ACTIVE and CONSTANT manner? What I mean by this, is how many developers will make their game with this in mind and continue to support this technology, beyond one or two updates? Before they decide they could just devote their time and levels to a whole new game and release it in the actual market for $50 bucks. Obviously, if Core only released one or two episodes for Tomb Raider and there was only one car released for Twisted Metal Black, whatever you are paying for this service would not be worth it.


Totally agreed !  
Mine is only an idea,a concept...just now gamers have no answer to all the questions..."how much would this service cost"...or..."how many games will support this service in an ACTIVE and CONSTANT manner"...or..."how many courses and new cars will be released each month in Twisted Metal Black"...but...again...if "Sony" managed to offer a favourable formula with a fair price and "relative great additions"...well...it should be really interesting...

We could try to expose our wishes and "suggestions" about the best way to exploit the HDD capabilities in the console market.....
He has the power of both worlds
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AND IT\'S PERSONAL
Demon: No… the legendary Sparda!?
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Offline ooseven
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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2001, 05:33:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EThugg
They need to give it away. Plain and simple. Anything short of that, it will fail.



Silly Human .......

Yeah just complain just because you have to pay for it , Bloody cheapskates !

Next you lot will be moaning about having to
pay for electricity to run your Playstation 2\'s
and you\'ll say ......

"bloody SONY ARE EVIL making us PAY to play games............"

IF you want development in that AREA of the PS2 , we as customers have to pay.

And i for one think it is worth it 110%

:mad: :rpissed: :mad:Remember i am still seeing people who are never going to Buy a HDD moaning about it\'s Development !

NOT ON this Thread but others like it ! :mad: :rpissed: :mad:
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Offline Black Samurai
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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2001, 06:39:52 AM »
TO make the HDD succesful Sony needs to give it away with a game for a little over the actual games price.

If that falls through they will need a time machine to have it pre-installed in all of their consoles. :D
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Offline Falcon4
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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2001, 07:41:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gohan

If that falls through they will need a time machine to have it pre-installed in all of their consoles. :D

haha yep, they would do that.

i think the HDD would have to be coupled with a game or 2 (killer online apps, im talking AAA here)

I think the eithernet thing will allow ANY ISP.
having to pay for a online service?

i think you would already be able to use your current internet service. otherwise, i dont think people would want to change and pay more.

they will need to couple it with a game, make it cheap( sony has $$$) and have online play free witht he purchase of a HDD to have it suceed.
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Offline EmperorRob
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What does Sony need to do to make the HD a runaway success?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2001, 09:35:53 AM »
Get the HDD speed up to SCSI standards
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