More Info on the PS3

ps3 IN 2 years "shrugs" I just hope it has four controller ports.

[Paul2]

Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Oh Hey! You\'re back again? I sure have missed you MR. HYPE !

me?  Mr. hype?  i was here every once and a while.  It\'s just that there arent anything that interesting to post anymore nowadays.

Doubters. I have my doubts, sure, but if you think sony is doing this wrong and this poorly and yadda yadda yadda then thats nice. You have stated your opinion. Obviously if your going to complain so much about it then dont buy one and stop bitching. Now if u end up buying one im just going to laugh at you. So lets wait till we have more evidence on sony\'s plans to start bitching and moaning like some F***ing babies. Well, unless you are one
Preach Fastson

JP

I feel sorry for the programmers.... Can\'t see how it\'ll be possible to program for the PS3 with that many processors.

The article above quotes that the processing power will be equivilant to hundreds of today\'s personal computers. No where does it state that the actual hardware will feature that many.

Knotter8

LOL... "But Sony and its partners believe that if they can coordinate those processors at maximum efficiency,..."
like it looks now with PS2, with devs having a hard
time getting acceptable performance out of just Vu0 and Vu1 >
seems Sony is keen on digging it\'s own grave concerning
console gaming. Yeah, sure they tell us promises this and that
but the outlook is kinda grim for PS3 imo. I think Nintendo made
a very good move by teaming up again with ATI for NGC2.

Who\'s having a hard time getting acceptable performance out of PS2? Honestly, once you get passt the bullshit on the Net, you\'ll see that these cases are due to pitful programming or lazy porting. Good efforts are rewarded with good results. Bad graphics through lack of effort is found on every console, even on the current GameCube. On the contrary, if Sony hadn\'t went with a design such as now, you wouldn\'t be seeing games such as MGS2, ZOE2, Silent Hill 3 or all other nice games in their beauty.

Paul2

blah. i think developers may ditch sony if it too hard to program on as which is the case to sega saturn.

Developers ditched Saturn due to it\'s faulty and problematic hardware. There\'s a difference in hardware being challenging or hard to program due to unefficient hardware.

Paul

I don\'t like it..don\'t like it at all...all these talks of multiple processors blah...powerful blah...I don\'t want to wait ten years for the next Final Fantasy.

I just hope it doesn\'t do 10 billion polygons but still can\'t get rid of the shimerries...*shivers*

As complexity in future games will increase, so will the time and effort needed to make them. It\'s the advancement the industry is going through - if not, we\'d be still playing our C64 games.

As for flickering - it\'s called lack of Mipmapping and PS2 should well be able to solve them. Blame the developers, not the hardware. If small developers such as the makers from Baulder\'s Gate can, why can\'t big developers?

And connecting to other CELL chip via the internet??? Not even broadband is fast enough to transmit the data needed for that kind of computation needed for games..(unless it\'s for other purpose like recording a movie or god knows what that doesn\'t demand real-time 3D graphics)..

My god, give the damn guys some credit will ya?! You\'re not the only one fortunate enough to see that GRID-computing is no option in 2005. The concept of using multiple cores within a processor is what IBM/Sony/Toshiba are working on - what you are refering to, is GRID, another variant of (Cell) clusters which has little to do with PS3 at the time.

I think SONY really have gone bonkers this time round....the XBOX has shown that traditional method+raw brute force still can outperform elegant design....I just hope it doesn\'t piss off all the developers and left only a few rocket scientist to code for the thing...

Raw bruteforce? If anything, what Sony is offering with PS2 can be called "raw bruteforce". And Xbox outperforming has little to do with design choices, but rather a 2 year time advantage. Still quite remarkable though to see games like Silent Hill 3 and ZOE2 running on the older hardware though - guess what Sony did isn\'t that bad afterall, ey?

Phil:

[GmanJoe]

seven went on a killing spree.

Seven: You obviously did not see the point that BG:DA has no jaggies/shimmeries(probably the cleanest/sharpest PS2 game on the planet so far) is also due to the fact that the game engine isn\'t that demanding as the camera remains at a relatively fix 3D isometric angle. You think that developers like Konami, CAPCOM, SQUARE etc don\'t have the know how to do this after all these years?? From the looks of the majority of the games, it just so obvious that shimerries is a PS2 problem that can\'t be get rid of without a major hit to performance.
This is a serious error by SONY as such standard feature(already featured in PC and previous older consoles like N64 and DC at that time) should have been implemented in the hardware in the first place.
Still, the shimeries are somewhat reduced in the newer games although sometimes you\'ll still be in a shock coz some newer games have as bad a shimerries as 1st gen PS2 games. (Developers too lazy to learn!!!)

I just hope FFX-2 will get rid of the horrible shimerries present in FFX which mars an otherwise top class game in terms of graphics.


But I do agree with ur point about XBOX being superior by the virtue of being newer hardware. And I think nvidia has done an excellent job by bringing the latest technology(at that time) to mass production in a short time line (as little as 6 months).

Seven,
Well, I\'m taking my words back here a bit. I just bought an Xbox just a week ago with Splinter Cell and PGR, and it\'s great. But while at the videogame shop they had Jak and Daxter on demo.
(never played it myself) I was kinda struck by the clean n crispy visuals the PS2 is pumping out, so that fact wipes the floor with Paul\'s \'Baulders Gate - Fixed cam view being less proc intensive\'
argument. Of course, one sometimes forgets ( how can I  :eek:  )
the great looks of current and upcoming PS2 games and the grass
is always more green on the other \'side\' ( indeed SH3, also Splinter Cell on PS2).
Still, it is a fact that devs have to be inventive and find workarounds to achieve all this in competition to, let\'s say an Xbox game. So, my worry is ; will there be enough devs who are able, in the beginning of PS3\'s life cycle ?

Paul

Seven: You obviously did not see the point that BGA has no jaggies/shimmeries(probably the cleanest/sharpest PS2 game on the planet so far) is also due to the fact that the game engine isn\'t that demanding as the camera remains at a relatively fix 3D isometric angle. You think that developers like Konami, CAPCOM, SQUARE etc don\'t have the know how to do this after all these years?? From the looks of the majority of the games, it just so obvious that shimerries is a PS2 problem that can\'t be get rid of without a major hit to performance.
This is a serious error by SONY as such standard feature(already featured in PC and previous older consoles like N64 and DC at that time) should have been implemented in the hardware in the first place.
Still, the shimeries are somewhat reduced in the newer games although sometimes you\'ll still be in a shock coz some newer games have as bad a shimerries as 1st gen PS2 games. (Developers too lazy to learn!!!)

One thing Paul: it\'s not Sony\'s fault, but the developers one. The standard feature you\'re thinking about is called mipmapping, and is one of GS supported features. FFX does not use it, that\'s why you\'ll have quite a lot of shimmering on objects further away. In Baulders Gate, they\'re using, I think, 4xFAA to reduce any jaggies. It having a more or less fixed camera helps, but if you\'ve played the game, you should know that at times the camera levels down to characters in all their glory. Baulder\'s Gate is not the only game though, as Knotter8 pointed out, Jak & Daxter is another with suprisingly clean image quality. The fact that the hardware does support it and a few examples that actually use \'em should be more than indicate that it\'s a choice every developer has to make. Blaming the hardware is kind of pointless really.

Knotter8

Well, I\'m taking my words back here a bit. I just bought an Xbox just a week ago with Splinter Cell and PGR, and it\'s great. But while at the videogame shop they had Jak and Daxter on demo.
(never played it myself) I was kinda struck by the clean n crispy visuals the PS2 is pumping out, so that fact wipes the floor with Paul\'s \'Baulders Gate - Fixed cam view being less proc intensive\'
argument. Of course, one sometimes forgets ( how can I  )
the great looks of current and upcoming PS2 games and the grass
is always more green on the other \'side\' ( indeed SH3, also Splinter Cell on PS2).
Still, it is a fact that devs have to be inventive and find workarounds to achieve all this in competition to, let\'s say an Xbox game. So, my worry is ; will there be enough devs who are able, in the beginning of PS3\'s life cycle ?

He, that\'s okay. Yeah, sure PS2 hardware is more demanding, there\'s nothing to be mistaken about there. A lot of PS2 games do look below average because many devs think about the cash they can make, rather then giving the hardware the extra thought. This is something you\'ll find on every console though, just much more on PS2 because it is the best selling console and that is unlikely to change. We can only hope that even they will learn a thing or two and make use of features such as mipmapping which will give a bit better quality. Hey, on a more positive note, if you\'ve seen the screens of Jak 2, that\'s yet another title coming that seems to make use of many features to enhance the picture quality!


Oh and something to add: The PS2\'s output device delievers images much sharper than GameCube\'s for instance. You may notice this on a good TV and that most GameCube\'s edges are blurred, while PS2\'s tend to flicker. You can avoid this by using better cables or turning back the sharpness of the TV a little. I\'ve seen this do wonders actually...

btw, anyone has HDTV to try progressive scan games on their TV??

I was thinking of getting one "Blaze VGA adapter" which can hook up to ur VGA monitor in hi-res. Anyone has this cable or seen the result of one?? It claims that it can "unlock" via software the PS2 hi-res instead of using a "double scan" method in most PS2 VGA adapter.

Seven: if you\'re talking about J&D 1, i don\'t agree that it looks anywhere as sharp as BG: DA. J&D looks great no doubt but it still can\'t match the sharpness of BG: DA...although I really have no complaint for J&D coz it\'s one heck of a great looking and playing platformer! Can\'t say for J&D 2 though, as I haven\'t see it live in action.

And yes, a TV does makes a difference to the output..my old 29" Toshiba(5 to 7 years old) shows cleaner image with less jaggies than my new 21" Panasonic...no matter how much I try to adjust the image output!

Sometimes, newer just isn\'t better I suppose...

What cable do you use ? I myself have my PS2 hooked up via SCART RGB (PAL) to a Sony Wega 21" and I never wish to go back to composite AV anymore.:cool:

Paul

Seven: if you\'re talking about J&D 1, i don\'t agree that it looks anywhere as sharp as BG: DA. J&D looks great no doubt but it still can\'t match the sharpness of BG: DA...although I really have no complaint for J&D coz it\'s one heck of a great looking and playing platformer! Can\'t say for J&D 2 though, as I haven\'t see it live in action.

J&D was just an example of suprisingly clean output. Metal Gear Solid 2 is another one, although it does have some jaggies here and there. No flickering though. There are many other games, though I will agree with you that the average tend to feature poor image quality quite a lot. My main point though (and one that\'s hopefully resolved by now) is that Sony isn\'t at fault, as the PS2 does have those features implemented.

I was thinking of getting one "Blaze VGA adapter" which can hook up to ur VGA monitor in hi-res. Anyone has this cable or seen the result of one?? It claims that it can "unlock" via software the PS2 hi-res instead of using a "double scan" method in most PS2 VGA adapter.

It does wonders apparently, even the games that don\'t feature prog. output. Not all though. I think GT3 runs good, although not necessarly better. Games that do support progressive output though look much cleaner (the Getaway). I think Baulders Gate looks awesome too using it. There was a thread not that long ago at beyond3d... I might link it if I find it.

Knotter8

What cable do you use ? I myself have my PS2 hooked up via SCART RGB (PAL) to a Sony Wega 21" and I never wish to go back to composite AV anymore.

Heh, the standard ones. But I have a suprisingly clean output on my 15" Amiga monitor (basically no jaggies at all, even with Wipeout Fusion!) and my 32" 100Hz TV.