If Hitler didn\'t cause holocaust, how would he...

Giga, I think Road Kill is asking why specifically it was common not why it was considered common.

[Titan]

Ford hated the Jews, Lindbergh too was antisemetic and said that the concentration camps weren\'t as bad as what we were doing to the Japanese.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
meaning it wasn\'t rare.
:rolleyes:

i guessed that much...i was wondering what affliction caused a bollock to drop off suddenly..

Originally posted by Road Kill Recipies
i guessed that much...i was wondering what affliction caused a bollock to drop off suddenly..

leprecry :rolleyes:

Originally posted by GigaShadow
He killed himself because he saw what happened to Mussolini when he was captured.  I wouldn\'t exactly like the idea of my body being strung up and mutilated as well.  Not to mention it wasn\'t the Americans or the British that were going to capture him.  The Russians were the German\'s most despised enemy and were looked upon as barbarians.  When they entered Berlin there are accounts of Soviet soldiers raping young girls and old women, stealing toilets (and anything else that was permanately fixed to the ground, and not accepting surrender from German troops, but rather shooting them on sight.

What did they/he think would happen trying to invade mother Russia?

On that note, what the hell was he thinking invading cold hard Russia instead of defending itself when they came. AT least they could have fought more on their own terms instead of a bitter winter they were not prepared for.

Originally posted by luckee
What did they/he think would happen trying to invade mother Russia?

On that note, what the hell was he thinking invading cold hard Russia instead of defending itself when they came. AT least they could have fought more on their own terms instead of a bitter winter they were not prepared for.

Hitler had planned on invading Russia in March (early Spring), but had to make a detour to Yugoslavia and Greece because the Italians were getting their asses handed to them by the Greeks.  This ended up delaying the invasion until early Summer (June) 1941.  Those three months cost the Third Reich the capture of Moscow and gave the Russians more time to prepare.  Stalin knew it was coming - he just didn\'t know when.  Actually, he did know - his intelligence knew, but he too was a paranoid nutcase and didn\'t believe them.

I think Hitler and his staff thought with the fall of Moscow, Russia would be broken.  In hindsight we know that wouldn\'t have happened, but these are people who fought trench warfare in the previous war and there was no such thing as guerrila warfare until WW2.  At the very least Moscow would have provided a safe haven for the Winter of 41/42.  One has to also remember that was the worst winter in a century as well.  The Soviet Union\'s real strength was in the Urals... massive factories and cities were built to sustain the war effort.

Sorry to go off on a history lesson...

I love history. Thats why I wanted to post this thread. I had a feeling we would get deeper into WW2. So here is some more.

Hilter wanted to be personally in charge of certain (maybe all) Panzer units. During Operation Overlord, a Panzer division sat in reserve of the Axis Atlantic wall. Had Hitler not been asleep, he could have ordered the unit to attack and could have pushed the Allies back into the English Channel.

HItler declaried war on the US after Pearl Harbor. All the did was move 100s of US 4 engined bombers to England, which soon leveled all of Germany and all of her industry.

Hitler didn\'t want to be on the defense. He always wanted to be on the attack. Therefore he personally made the decision to produce more bombers (ju88s, etc)instead of defensive fighter aircraft (bf109s and fw190s). He also personally made the decision to strap 2 bombs on the belly of the first operational jet fighter, the ME262, and force it into the JABO (ground attack) role.

Hitler had to approve every weapon that went into service. This included small arms. It\'s rumored that he had a thing for submachine guns (machine pistole - MP40). When designers introduced to Hitler the worlds first assault rifle, he denyed it. The designers then changed its name to the MP44 and Hitler approved of the project. The STG44 would have been in the hands of German soldiers in 1942 if it had been approved earlier than Hitler let it to be.

Those were only 3 mistakes, Im sure he had many more also from poor military stradegy.

Add one more item to what you stated... he didn\'t authorize the production of a long range bomber - big mistake... the medium range bombers were quite useless.  Good point about the first jets using bombs.

I also think the standard infantry rifle - the Kar 98 was a major handicap when you compare it to the Garand.  

Speaking of WW2 I am so glad they finally built that WW2 memorial that they will dedicating this weekend.  At least a good number of veterans will still be able to see it.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Hitler a jew?  That is nothing more than an myth.  Gay - another myth to degrade his position in history as a great political strategist.  One testical - true, but apparently it was common for the time period.  

 Not to mention it wasn\'t the Americans or the British that were going to capture him.  The Russians were the German\'s most despised enemy and were looked upon as barbarians.  When they entered Berlin there are accounts of Soviet soldiers raping young girls and old women, stealing toilets (and anything else that was permanately fixed to the ground, and not accepting surrender from German troops, but rather shooting them on sight.

Gee, interesting. If i didnt know better i would think you were getting a little touchy. And as for myths and facts, i dont take it all too seriously but i wouldnt count them out.

And as far as Russians go, the Russians were scared shitless of germany and thus their reason for trying to keep them somewhat opressed during the cold war. A tactic used to protect themselves from a German uprising. This was another reason for trying to gain political power in certain territories. They wanted/needed, so friendlies to support them. If that wasnt the case then it wouldnt have even been an issue between the U.S. and Russia, over the spread of communism.

Im sure you know that we created things like the Marshal Plan and the Truman Doctrine partially to keep their influence down by proving that our system was more beneficial.

I dont have to go into detain as im sure you know most of this stuff whether you agree or not. Im not dissagreing with you, but in those somewhat grey areas, im sure we\'ll stick to our own opinions as none of us know what happened for sure.

If it weren’t for Finland, Germany might not have attacked the Soviet Union so early.

When Hitler saw how.. hmm, poorly (cue "Benny Hill theme") the Soviet army preformed and how ill equipped they were in Poland he thought that it would be an easy victory.

Luckily Stalin reformed his army after the Winter War (aka. shot most of the officers etc. ).

Declaring war on the Sovet Union must have been his biggest mistake (and not going through the invasion of Britain (Operation Seelowe).

Originally posted by Lord Nicon


And as far as Russians go, the Russians were scared shitless of germany and thus their reason for trying to keep them somewhat opressed during the cold war. A tactic used to protect themselves from a German uprising. This was another reason for trying to gain political power in certain territories. They wanted/needed, so friendlies to support them. If that wasnt the case then it wouldnt have even been an issue between the U.S. and Russia, over the spread of communism.

 

Russia herself was on a landgrab in 1939 with Poland and an attempt with Finnland.



Giga-on the bombing issue:  I think Germany lost the war the second that Hitler made the decision to switch from bombing Britains airfields to bombing Britains cities. All he accomplished was to steel the resolve on the British people while giving their air force time to regroup and eventually win the Battle of Britain. Germany\'s failure to win the Battle of Britain left the Western Front open which put them in a two front war a couple of months later when he invaded Russia.

I still they they had a great chance at winning the war  if it weren\'t for 2 important non-controllable events:

1. the Russian winter making it impossible to complete the Russian campaign
2. the channel winter making it impossible to invade Britain

The crossing of the channel may have still not been a good idea since he allowed the RAF to stay pretty intact.

Then there is D-day...The most imprtant factor that made D-Day possible was the destruction of the Luftwaffe. Amphibious landings just aren\'t possible without clear air superiority.