If you have been going to any Tekken forums on the net (Tekken Zaibatsu, Tekkencentral, Namcoarcade), you probably have heard this bad news. If not, brace yourselves. This will probably hurt a little.
Here is a brief summary of what this is all about. People around the world hate Tekken 4. They think it\'s all about poking, and it isn\'t fun anymore. It has too many flaws to even be fun.
This is where this bad news all started. A few days ago, Tekkencentral posted this:
Interesting note: most of the top koreans are thinking of quitting TK4. Park Suyong quit already and is back to broodwars. Jang might quit soon (he wrote "even though i get winning streaks, game is no fun"), gijae is going to quit. They all don\'t like the fact that in TK4, "50% luck, no skill." Even beginner can beat top player. DigitaLee told me that the top japanese players think the same way.
Of course this lead to a huge debate over at TekkenZaibatsu. Hundreds and hundreds of posts saying, "Those whiners! They just can\'t accept that they have to learn new things and that their overpowering Mashima tactics don\'t work anymore."
At first, I agreed with the people at TZ. Those people in Korea really are whiners, right? They just can\'t accept that they have to learn new strategies. I thought that for a while until I heard other people\'s first hand impressions of Tekken 4.
There are 2 huge problems with Tekken 4. One problem is that 1,2 is way too fast and has way too high priority. It is very hard to beat anyone who just taps 1,2 over and over. Second problem (Bob, you are going to love this!
), Paul is now the cheapest person in Tekken. His new d+1+2 move has way too high priority. It hits mid, and knocks you back whether you block or not. So if Paul is in the corner, he just has to do this move to get out. He is also one of the people who have insanely fast punches. But wait, it gets better. His d+1 now hits downed apponents! (Nooooooo!!!) For those of you who have played against an aggresive Paul, you know how bad this sucks. Also, his d+4 sweeps very easily. Everything I have ever hated about Paul is now even worse, and he got a few new cheap moves as well.
I can\'t say too much more, because I haven\'t played it yet. This is what some other people said about Tekken 4, the 1,2 punches, and Paul. (again, brace yourselves. This will hurt if you are a Tekken fan)
Originally posted by Tic:
Ok I donnow if I\'m the only person to reply here who has played T4, but I\'ll be the first to say that 1,2 DOES have ridiculous priority. The Paul player I was playing (BryanFury on TZ) basically would get as close as he could before the round started and would right away do 1,2, 4, or d+1,2. All of those moves are completely safe. And I spent three whole matches trying to find a basic way around 1,2, and I couldn\'t. I\'d duck and interrupt with d+1, but that pushes them back out far enough to the point that d+1 or d/f+1 will hit you again. I would then try and sidestep around anything, but it all tracked me in both directions. I kept trying to backdash, but d+1,2 advances far enough to at least make me block. So then I would 1,2 back and I had a fighting chance, but Paul\'s priority with his other moves was just too good. d+1+2 hits mid, has virtually no recovery time, pushes out far on block, sends the opponent flying on hit, and tracks well. So basically the match came down to whoever could 1,2 the fastest just like DUK2000 said.
Now will this change? Probably not. In TTT, there were strings that seemed cheap at first, but in the back of your head you knew there were easy ways around it that just had to be found. But now in T4 with the seemingly bigger size of the characters, I don\'t see any easy way around it yet.
Now of course, this is only the second week Tekken 4 has been out in Chicago. But people who go there often are still playing the game like this, and it\'s really starting to make me think. The matches just turn into guessing games of 1,2 and d+1,2. Most of the juggles from TTT don\'t even work anymore, and the ones that do don\'t take off as much damage. You\'d be much better off just mixing up between d/f+4,4 and 1,2 with Kazuya.
Oh yeah and b+3,1,4,1 is so fast...people will say "oh no problem I\'ll just parry the third hit" but the third hit comes out so fast you won\'t even know that the combo started. That **** should definitely, and will definitely, be abused. CD+3 looks just like Liu Kang\'s f,f+HK. It hits high but it\'s blindingly fast.
It\'s true that you would think Namco couldn\'t screw up on something as simple as 1,2, but they did. The whole deal with the walls got messed up as well...if you come at the walls at somewhat of an angle everything gets messed up. Some characters like Paul can do insane wall combos while others can bust out 1 or 2 moves before you can recover.
T4 just doesn\'t seem like my cup of tea yet.
Again, posted by Tic.
But not only do most TTT juggles not work, but the whole juggling system has been weakened. Characters fall faster and don\'t go as high up. This obviously means juggles have been toned down, and of course 1,2 has been toned up. So chances are it will turn into a jab carnival.
In my first and second matches I was mashing buttons with Hwoarang cause nothing was working and I won. 1,2, 1,1, d/f+1, d/f+2, d+1, ws+4,4 and all that was working far better than before. None of his RFF stuff was working well since it\'s all slow and 1,2 or Paul\'s d+1,2 would stop it. But then I settled down and played conventionally but got my ass kicked. Maybe there will be a new style that can be used found in the future to get around this poking crap, but it could take a while.
by SauerChoke
After finally playing against a super-aggressive player yesterday, I can sadly confirm what the Koreans are *****ing about. 1~2 had MAD priority, as far as I could see, NO WS move will interrupt sequential 1~2, even throws have a hard time. The only way to hang with an aggressive Law or Paul is to either:
a. Pick Law/Paul/Steve and do the same
b. Sidestep ... which requires really good timing, and good stix (the latter of which, unfortunately were not present at yesterday\'s session).
This game is looking worse every time I play it... As some ppl have said on this board: If I wanted to play DOA2 or VF3, I wouldn\'t be standing in front of a T4 machine.
I\'ll give T4 a couple more weeks, but it ain\'t looking too good so far.
This ones for you Bob. Originally posted by Asian_Caucasian talking about Paul:
man I can\'t believe how much faster it feels to play this guy now....he works so well with the new engine and the walls really help out this guy deal good damage and strong poking
d+1+2 DEFINETLY has to be his best move without a doubt. this thing has so much priority, hits mid, has good recovery, does good damage, and sends the opp. flying into the wall
whenever Steve Fox is poking and jabbing away like a pitbull pull out d+1+2 and it will beat it
i haven\'t seen anything out prioritize this move...its disgusting
df+4 is really nice to
b,f+1 is deadly as well, its more of an anticipation type of move
you think your opp will attack do this and Paul dashes and ducks back then comes forward with a fast elbow
similar to Kuni\'s 1+2 only better
qcf+4 and d+1 seem to hit the opp. on the ground a lot and is good for okizeme surprisingly
ff+1+2 is great sending people into walls...i still miss tagging off this move tho
most of his juggles seem to be there to, at least the death fist ones
ff+2,1 also has good priority and is really good on CH
Man I barely touched this guy in TTT but Im really loving the new tekken4 Paul
That last line confirms what the Koreans said. "50% luck, no skill."
Here is just one more bad thing. A infinite combo has been found by Kazuya.
"Kazuya\'s got a instant death infinity combo......
ws+RP(clean hit), ff, LP, ws+RP(clean hit), repeat as many times you want.
all this is guranteed.
Wow, that\'s a lot of reading.
Just imagine what I went through reading hundreds of posts on this subject.
So are there any solutions, or is Tekken 4 doomed? Tekken 4 version B is rumored to have been released in Japan. There is no info on whether these problems have been fixed though. Also, there is no info on whether the US will get version A or version B in a couple days.
My thoughts on this: Tekken 4 has problems, but me being the huge Tekken fan that I am, I will not drop it before I even play it. Namco might fix the 1,2 punch problems by making them have a little more recovery time, and they might tone down Paul. If they don\'t, I am sure ways to beat this 1,2 problem will be found. I will probably have nighmares about Paul tonight, but I will get over it.
Come on Namco, don\'t let us down.
What do you think about this? Is Tekken doomed? Will Namco fix the problems? Are you afraid of the new Paul?
