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Author Topic: Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.  (Read 2580 times)

Offline Falcon4
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2001, 01:55:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by datamage
I think that for the first time I agree with you Jump. Though for someone who is completely disappointed with this new Zelda, you seem to be defending it quite often in other threads. Anyhow, I think it\'s simple;

Miyamoto wanted Zelda to grow up, thus he worked on that demo for the first unveling, and what we saw @ E3. Then the big \'N\' stepped in, put him in a gimp suit, slapped him around a bit, and reminded him where his checks come from.

Why not add some Pokemon elements in this Zelda? So Link can have his own little pet that you have to take care of.

You know, I think it\'s fine for people to like this new look, but if you are forcing yourself to like it, or find yourself having to get used to it (like a ton of ppl here), then you honestly don\'t like it. Open your eyes people, you don\'t have to be a die-hard Zelda/Nintendo fan all your life.


/ dm /





i never really liked the zelda genre, and now with this change, it just makes me laugh even harder. i still connot believe they did that. well ill just have to tell my friend nintendo fanboy the news when he comes back from vacation.
IM BACK. you have a problem with that? get in the back.

Jumpman
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2001, 02:30:46 PM »
Quote
Miyamoto wanted Zelda to grow up, thus he worked on that demo for the first unveling, and what we saw @ E3. Then the big \'N\' stepped in, put him in a gimp suit, slapped him around a bit, and reminded him where his checks come from.

And don\'t think that\'s true simply because Miyamoto is Nintendo and vice-versa. He pays their checks. He\'s the one who is responsible for changing the way we play games like 10 times. Nintendo let\'s this guy do what ever he wants. Make Metroid into a FPS, make Zelda cel-shaded, etc.

Offline Stupid Mop
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2001, 02:54:27 PM »
Jumpman has to be one of the most intelligent posters in these forums and he is only 15!!!
Sure most of us get a bit worked up about his arguments sometimes but most of the time his arguments are well thought out and very intelligent.

I agree totally with him about Zelda. I was totally blown away by the original screens of zelda. Those really raised my opinion of the GCN but know they have dropped a little. I HATE the new look.

But I\'m sure GCN will still do well. There are other more mature games out there to appeal to us older people. Starwars being one that really stands out
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Offline QuDDus
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2001, 03:10:04 PM »
My  reason why this whole link thing sucks to me is because I am a old hardcore zelda fan. I was there when link first started. I mean ZELDA was the first nintendo game to sell 1million copies.And the first nintedno game to gain huge popularity(It\'s true look it up do the research)  My heart lies in zelda 1 and zelda 3. I watch link become zelda 3 which is the best one(imo) I like MM on n64 but I felt that OOT was not really a zelda game. But as link made his way to n64 you could see that he was maturing. And that first zelda demo had me thinking the next installment of zelda was going to be something to remember. I was there when link was born and I DON\'t remember link looking this gay or cartoonish. I mean I just don\'t see how this takes link back to his roots. I mean if they wanted to take link back to his roots they should put link in full 2d form.

I just don\'t see how anyone can argue this enhances link.
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Offline EmperorRob
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Re: Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2001, 03:13:34 PM »
Link



Jerry Springer Drag Queen Link


BTW, what kind of name is Link?
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Offline datamage
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2001, 03:17:03 PM »
Quote
And don\'t think that\'s true simply because Miyamoto is Nintendo and vice-versa. He pays their checks. He\'s the one who is responsible for changing the way we play games like 10 times. Nintendo let\'s this guy do what ever he wants. Make Metroid into a FPS, make Zelda cel-shaded, etc.


I was mainly joking with a tad of sarcasm. Though I don\'t truly believe that this is what Miyamoto honestly wants. I think Nintendo has something to do with his decision regardless. Either way, it\'s pointless, we\'ll never know the truth and we have to swallow this pile of crap.

/ dm /

Offline Toxical
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2001, 03:17:44 PM »
You know what? after seeing the 2 pictures together like that, i actually think it might work... the only difference is the 3D to 2D Cell conversion... it is the same link.. IMO.

Offline OneGig
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2001, 03:46:01 PM »
There should be a code of some sort to switch between cell and true 3D ("should" in the sense of expressing my wishes). BTW, is Paper Mario considered true cell animation? If not, what is the formal name for its graphics style?
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Offline Heretic
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2001, 05:45:50 PM »
Shiregu Miyamoto quote:

" so what we are doing now is making Zelda as unique as possible because uniqueness is something gamers are always looking for. So I can say that we are ready to make that Zelda."

Maybe he meant to say "making Link as much a eunuch as possible"? All kidding aside, I smell the reek of a smokescreen in the words above. With the enthusiastic reception the Zelda demo received at SW2000 is there any way they would not make the game look the way it was shown if they were able to?  Before the "real-time footage" line gets dragged out again a few points to ponder;

A few weeks prior to E3 this year Nintendo announced if their soon to be given presentation wasn\'t well received Game Cube would not launch. Notably absent from the show were Zelda and Metroid. All very odd

What was it that inspired Nintendo fans to think PS2 would be shown up as a totally inferior system once E3 finally rolled around? Only one major thing I can think of, the Zelda SP2K "demo".

While imo the games shown by Nintendo at E3 did look great, none reached the level of quality Zelda showed the promise of. That was not a bash! Hell, if you ask me neither DOA3 nor Doom3 look as good graphically as last years Zelda demo(consider that a bash if you want).

After this years E3 almost all the Nfans big talk about GC kicking PS2\'s ass evaporated.

Put it all together and I see Nintendo scrambling to put together a playable version of Zelda that would live up to what was shown at SW2000. Finding themselves hard pressed to come closer than a sharper more detailed  N64 version, they gave up and went as far from the promised Zelda as possible so the image of their new system wouldn\'t be brought under too much scrutiny.

Hey, so what if we\'ve seen Smurfs that look more lifelike (not to mention more macho). Everyone who feels they\'ve been burned has at least a year to get over it before it finally releases. By that time you\'ll be looking forward to it as much as you were a week ago. Even if Links not cool, you know the game will be.

Jumpman
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2001, 08:57:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Heretic
Shiregu Miyamoto quote:

" so what we are doing now is making Zelda as unique as possible because uniqueness is something gamers are always looking for. So I can say that we are ready to make that Zelda."

Maybe he meant to say "making Link as much a eunuch as possible"? All kidding aside, I smell the reek of a smokescreen in the words above. With the enthusiastic reception the Zelda demo received at SW2000 is there any way they would not make the game look the way it was shown if they were able to?  Before the "real-time footage" line gets dragged out again a few points to ponder;

A few weeks prior to E3 this year Nintendo announced if their soon to be given presentation wasn\'t well received Game Cube would not launch. Notably absent from the show were Zelda and Metroid. All very odd

What was it that inspired Nintendo fans to think PS2 would be shown up as a totally inferior system once E3 finally rolled around? Only one major thing I can think of, the Zelda SP2K "demo".

While imo the games shown by Nintendo at E3 did look great, none reached the level of quality Zelda showed the promise of. That was not a bash! Hell, if you ask me neither DOA3 nor Doom3 look as good graphically as last years Zelda demo(consider that a bash if you want).

After this years E3 almost all the Nfans big talk about GC kicking PS2\'s ass evaporated.

Put it all together and I see Nintendo scrambling to put together a playable version of Zelda that would live up to what was shown at SW2000. Finding themselves hard pressed to come closer than a sharper more detailed  N64 version, they gave up and went as far from the promised Zelda as possible so the image of their new system wouldn\'t be brought under too much scrutiny.

Hey, so what if we\'ve seen Smurfs that look more lifelike (not to mention more macho). Everyone who feels they\'ve been burned has at least a year to get over it before it finally releases. By that time you\'ll be looking forward to it as much as you were a week ago. Even if Links not cool, you know the game will be.

Sorry, but that simply is not true and there is absolutely no logic to it. The demo was realtime..that alone destroys your entire argument of Nintendo not being able to pull it off. Miyamoto just wanted to pull a u-turn with the Zelda franchise. <---real reason. I have no idea where your getting this stuff from.

It\'s funny how you didn\'t quote all of what Miyamoto said.

"The video footage of Legend of Zelda we showed at the E3 show was almost identical to the one we first showed at Space World 2000. Actually, we were not lying to you about what we were doing. Well, as a matter of fact, at the time of E3 we were hiding the secret. But one year ago at Space World 2000, we were seriously working on the version of Legend of Zelda you saw at the event. We were repeating so many of Link\'s experiences, and we were trying to decide on what new direction the new Zelda should take, and after that I began to wonder what the idealistic age of Link is. In a new Zelda, is a grown up Link something I really wanted to pursue?

"As you know, if one product receives rave reviews and becomes a hit, then the next year there are a number of similar games following the trend. A look at the movie industry, or animation made in Japan, they are following a similar trend and in the end only the very enthusiastic movie lovers can tell the difference. But the general public can never tell them apart. And that is what we are most afraid of. So more in detail, what we are now doing is putting emphasis on making our games better than the others and we are not ignoring the importance of making something different.

"In the game industry the people that are most sought after are the people with better technology than skill, rather than the people who love to challenge themselves to make something very fun and deliver breakthrough ideas. That kind of situation I really hate. So that\'s why I told my staff members that they should have more freedom to create anything they like, and at the same time I\'ve been telling other people my idea for Zelda. So we have completed many experiments and this is the result. And I think the video that I showed you today represents the course that we will take with the next Zelda for GameCube. I can tell you that development on the game is making very good progress right now.

"One thing I\'m afraid of is that people who already saw Link in the very beautiful graphics may be looking forward to the much more sophisticated looking version of him [Space World 2000 footage] in the next Zelda. I do not want to betray them or shatter their expectations, so what we are doing now is making Zelda as unique as possible because uniqueness is something gamers are always looking for. So I can say that we are ready to make that Zelda."

Offline EmperorRob
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2001, 09:22:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Heretic
what he said ^^
Yeah you may be on to something there.
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Offline JediMaster
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2001, 12:50:02 AM »
It may sell in Japan but it will be rejected big in America. SomeBody else take charge of the next Zelda and kick Miaymoto out of there, let Capcom make most of it. They did a fine job on OoS, better yet, let Factor 5 take on the project. The worst Zelda in the series is on its way...... I come back from Alaska and Nicole to find the Zelda series screwed up. At least I have RL, SSBM, and Nicole to love.
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Offline Heretic
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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2001, 01:07:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jumpman

Sorry, but that simply is not true and there is absolutely no logic to it. The demo was realtime..that alone destroys your entire argument of Nintendo not being able to pull it off. Miyamoto just wanted to pull a u-turn with the Zelda franchise. <---real reason. I have no idea where your getting this stuff from.

It\'s funny how you didn\'t quote all of what Miyamoto said.  



When a line or two highlights or speaks to a whole paragraph I see it as counterproductive to include all for the sake of.... what, protocol? There\'s no cause for worry about words being lifted out of context in order to change their meaning because they\'re already elsewhere in the thread. Easy enough to go back and make sure the message wasn\'t garbled by the editing.

The extra paragraphs of Miyamoto quotes you\'ve now included in this thread only lend more credence to what I\'ve tried to point out. That the SW2000 Zelda had been earnestly worked on, by E3 it had already been canned (though they chose to keep it a "secret" and instead ran almost the exact same "video footage" from the year before). Did you happen to notice real-time and demo were never mentioned in those quotes?

"Absolutely no logic" to my reasoning why Nintendo is now offering a cardboard cutout sprite in place of the Link pictured at the beginning of this thread? I thought my observations were fairly well laid out. Oh well. Take a close look at the picture of the Link you thought you were going to get for over a year now. My argument only gets "completely destroyed" when Nintendo serves up a game with an animated character that looks just as good. I\'d even bow to almost as good. So far nothing even close.

Nintendo didn\'t just shoot themselves in the foot with this Zelda move, it was a total crotch shot. Ouch:eek: The bleeding is heavy. It remains to be seen whether the Big N comes out of recovery with the ol\' link as stout as ever. Looking kinda di(kless at the moment though:(

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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2001, 08:21:33 AM »
Quote
That the SW2000 Zelda had been earnestly worked on, by E3 it had already been canned (though they chose to keep it a "secret" and instead ran almost the exact same "video footage" from the year before). Did you happen to notice real-time and demo were never mentioned in those quotes?

They canned it because Miyamoto wanted to be really unique. Those are his words. I take his words over your\'s any day. No offense of course.

And once again, the SW 2000 Zelda demo was real-time. Miyamoto didn\'t have to say it but it\'s supposed to be common knowlegde. Everyone here who slightly follows Nintendo would know that. It was real-time, meaning the GameCube could pull it off. That\'s a fact whether you like it or not.

Offline Living-In-Clip

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Zelda, and why it took a turn for the worse.
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2001, 08:33:41 AM »
The SW2000 demo was real-time. Just like the Lugi\'s Mansion / Pokemon / Mario 128 was all real-time. Common knowledge.

This turn was because Miyamoto thought Link was growing up and becoming to mature. Nothing more. So, he gave the staff creative freedom and this is what they came up with. A more "kiddy" Link, so that it maintains the fairy tale look of the original Zelda\'s.

 

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