So much for *cough* un-finished hardware.. Halo still running @ 30fps.

just remember that its the consoles first launch titles...remember how horrible the ps2 lauch titles were?
remember how jaggy ridge racer was?

ofcourse,  it shouldnt have to be this way,  but its a trend for launch titles to be less than expected...

which is why im getting an xbox sometime NEXT year,  when the software is better...same as i did with the DC,  and the PS2.

I think you are being too sensational.  Really, you seem to be going out of your way to stir up sh!t.  I\'m not a very big xbox backer so I\'m probably not the best person to defend it, but I\'ll give it a try.


"The \'not running on final hardware\' statements didn\'t mean sh!t."
 
Why can\'t it mean what is says.  It\'s not running on final hardware.  The early demos dipped below 10fps.  Final hardware it\'s up to 30--that seems significant to me and worthwhile for a developer to point out in their own defence.

"Bungie lied with their promised 60fps."

In a matter of speaking I guess they lied.  You\'ve never set expectations high only to come up short?  They didn\'t fulfil their goals.  Unforseen complications, shortened development cycle etc could account for this also.  To say they lied implies that the team PURPOSELY mislead the public, and I don\'t believe this is necessarily the case.  It might be, but this accusation seems unfair.

"The X-Box isn\'t the all-mighty graphics processing beast that it\'s supposed to be."

It\'s more powerful than anything on the market.  It\'s the first generation. There are no bottle necks with the system that anyone can see.  It IS the all-mighty graphics processing beast.  Anyone who has played near final software have been blown away.  I can\'t remember anyone being blown away by ps2\'s launch titles (unfortunately).

"Games\' framerates don\'t double from the beginning of development to the end."

I don\'t know the answer to this.  I\'ve never developed a game.  I have no idea how this optimization works or how long it takes or what\'s involved.  Do you?  I doubt it, but perhaps you do.  Either way, if history is any indication, near final betas don\'t double framerate so it would be foolish to expect Halo to.  

I really don\'t care beyond the hope that xbox succeeds only enough so that Sony pulls its socks up for the next round.  But this kind of stuff is inflamatory, and I can\'t resist responding to it.  

I guess this post bothered me because the review was so overwhelmingly positive that for you to jump on the one thing that was slightly negative paints you as a bit biased.  This is not to say that you can\'t express dissappointment or negative reviews, but to focus so keenly (and unfairly) on one small aspect seems to me that you are reaching a bit too far and a bit too much.

Over at the TeamXbox forums they think it is impressive to have 30 fps. But Waverace has 30 fps and the rate sucks. :rolleyes:

http://forums.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24909

Uh - oh fanboy alert

anyway, stop moaning about framerates, Red faction runs at 30fps and no one minds. Halo has a 30fps rate when there are about 20 - 40 marines and aliens battleing at the same time together with 2 planes flying around! Impressive If you ask me

Originally posted by Metal_Gear_Ray
anyway, stop moaning about framerates, Red faction runs at 30fps and no one minds. Halo has a 30fps rate when there are about 20 - 40 marines and aliens battleing at the same time together with 2 planes flying around! Impressive If you ask me

Thank you.

It may not be 60fps like we all wanted/expected, but 30fps is still quite a feat if you think about all the things that\'re going on in HALO.

Anyways, it could be possible for them to get the game up to a steady 60fps before launch. If not, I\'ll know why.

Watchdog,

Don\'t have time to reply to each quote as I have to head off to work. Just the mere reason that people are satisfied with games running @ 30fps is the reason why some developers don\'t strive to get to 60. I\'m not going to get into a framerate war, but if you can notice the difference between 30 and 60, especially when the camera pans around, you\'d understand why 60 should be the norm. It\'s much more fluid and lifelike.

The X-box has no bottlenecks? If that were true, they wouldn\'t have a problem tossing aroung the polygons in Halo and keeping the framerate @ 60.

I agree that the X-box looks to be the most capable in the graphics area, but to me framerate is just as important. Yes, I\'m a framerate whore. After playing all of SEGA\'s beautiful AM2/3 games in the arcade, plus some of Namco\'s, I was spoiled and always wanted the consoles @ home to run @ that magical
60fps.

Uh - oh fanboy alert

anyway, stop moaning about framerates, Red faction runs at 30fps and no one minds. Halo has a 30fps rate when there are about 20 - 40 marines and aliens battleing at the same time together with 2 planes flying around! Impressive If you ask me

Fanboy of which system hmm? I\'m a happy owner of the DC/PS2, and will be getting the GC @ launch and the X-box in Feb. So which console exactly was I advocating? I do mind that Red Faction was @ 30fps, and I\'m sure others here do. It\'s a shame not many people see the difference in framerates anyway.

/ dm /

Originally posted by datamage
It\'s a shame not many people see the difference in framerates anyway.

/ dm /

thats the problem...lots of people dont know the difference between 30 and 60 frames...and theyll make dumb comments like "the human eye cannot see past 30 frames"...its so ignorant..
when a game runs at 60 frames,  moving around on a 3d world is sooo much smoother and real...specially when you pan around the screen...notice when you watch a movie on your vcr or dvd and the camera pans around,  notice how the screen gets blurry and it jitters really fast...that doesnt happen with 60 frames...

has anyone seen the cartoon \'rolie polie and olie\' ?
that toon is running at 60 frames which is why it looks totally different than every other cartoon they play on tv...


i also think that if people wouldnt be satisfied with 30 frames,  developers would work harder to get 60 fps...

Well so much for 60fps.  Why does xbox have such a hard time getting constant framerate!?!?!?

Originally posted by raslant
Well so much for 60fps.  Why does xbox have such a hard time getting constant framerate!?!?!?

I dunno..
Im no techie.. But to me it seems like a bandwidth problem.

Yes you can tell the difference, but I think there are other things that contribute to that.  If it goes from 60-45-30-64-35 then you can definately tell and it definately hurts teh experience even thought the FR never dipped below 30.

If a game is locked and steady at 30 with no dips or spikes, it is very difficult to distinguish.  Sure if you look for it you can tell, but then I think you are being too stingy.

IF there is no slowdown, no dips in the FR, if it is truly LOCKED at 30, then there is no reason to complain as far as I\'m concerned.  Afterall, I can\'t name a game that can handle that amount of detail and remain constant even the vaunted Q3 can\'t do it on my PC (geforce2, 398 ram & 1.4 amd processor).

It\'s not a bandwidth problem.  It doesn\'t have a hard time getting a constant FR.  It\'s constantly 30.  The Halo team is having a difficult time (persumably) reaching 60FPS.  There isn\'t a FPS on any console that gets 60, and you need a beast of a machine to get 60 on a PC.  60 is an artificial number, that doesn\'t really mean that much.  There are dozens of things to love about this game, picking on the one small weakpoint is ridiculous.  Someone please show me a perfect game.  

One last thing; is anyone else dissappointed with the ps2 version of Halflife?  Marginally better graphics, 10 multi-player maps, only 2 player head to head. 50-60 FPS (source ign).  This is a four year old game, certainly they could have added 4 player split screen, more multi maps and graphics that are up to today\'s standards.  I wish sierra would stop milking a tired game and focus on something new.

Originally posted by Metal_Gear_Ray
Uh - oh fanboy alert

anyway, stop moaning about framerates, Red faction runs at 30fps and no one minds. Halo has a 30fps rate when there are about 20 - 40 marines and aliens battleing at the same time together with 2 planes flying around! Impressive If you ask me

red faction does not run at just 30 fps, the developers made some huge advancement after the demo, i own the game, and it is very very smooth. i think they must hav jumped it to 30fps when everything\'s happening, but at a contant 60 during normal gameplay.

its not at 30 fps.

I am happy that it is locked at 30 fps, because it would have been terrible if it went from 30-60fps all the time, does anyone remember playing sega rally, **** that framrate got on my nerves.
But people do have to remember just how much is going on in the game at one time, also the graphics are ment to be lovely, so i carnt wait to play this game.

Originally posted by Watchdog
If a game is locked and steady at 30 with no dips or spikes, it is very difficult to distinguish.  Sure if you look for it you can tell, but then I think you are being too stingy.

by that statement alone,  you obviously cannot distinguish the difference between 30 and 60 fps which is why you would be content with 30 fps.

No you are so superior to any normal person, only you have this ability.  Give me a break.

I run many games on my PC at 60. Up until last year I was running those same games at 25-35.  I know the difference.  It\'s not as distinct as you are making it out to be.  Sure it\'s nice, but it is not as critical as you are making it out to be.

You obviously have a bias against xbox else you wouldn\'t be so ridiculously against halo and 30fps.

Again, how do you even play a console FPS--there isn\'t one that I know of that even runs at a steady 30 (I\'ve never played one that has no slowdown or stuttering).  I say get off your pulpit and and give this famboyism a rest.

I\'ve never understood this thing about console loyalty.  I\'m a fan of good games, and by all accounts Halo is a great game.  That is enough for me.

IF there is no slowdown, no dips in the FR, if it is truly LOCKED at 30, then there is no reason to complain as far as I\'m concerned. Afterall, I can\'t name a game that can handle that amount of detail and remain constant even the vaunted Q3 can\'t do it on my PC (geforce2, 398 ram & 1.4 amd processor).

Instead of a game being locked @ 30 as you\'d like it to be, why not locked @ 60? This is my problem with today. If we supposedly have these powerful consoles, they should be able to handle the polygons thrown around @ a contant and locked in 60fps. It\'s not my beef with the X-box, it\'s my beef with any developer/game. I just chose the X-box because people were sure Halo would run @ 60fps when it reached the end of development. While it can still happen, I am doubtful.

It\'s a matter of opinion of course, but to me as I stated before, framerate is important, and with today\'s technology I expected every single game to be running @ 60fps. Yes, it does matter to me, whether it be a FPS or a silly puzzle game, I just like the fluidness the higher framerate provides.

Now if the framerate is going to be 60 and it dips frequently, of course I\'d prefer a steady 30, but I would always want a steady 60fps instead. 30fps didn\'t stop me from enjoying JetGrind, Shenmue, Ecco, etc.. but IMO, the experience would have been better with the higher framerate. Anyhow, I don\'t see why the PC setup you have would have a problem running Q3A @ a steady 60fps+ .. I have a 1.0ghz Tbird, w/a GeForce 2 (GTS) and 256mb of ram, and Q3A runs over 60fps 99% of the time. (in 1024x762x32) What kind of settings are you using? Drivers/etc.

On another note, I am disappointed with HL being released on the PS2 3 years later, but I suppose there are many people out there that never got to enjoy the excellence of HL.


/ dm /