Who\'s Winning the Console War? (An article from MSNBC)

[Bobs_Hardware]

i cant even remember what your replying to...care to edit your post and quote me?  cos im lost and im too lazy to bother looking through the thread..

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Sega + Nintendo dominate = screw up, Sony come out on top

Sega released a 400$ machine with subpar, new franchises and it was difficult to develope for to boot.  

Nintendo came out a whole year later, and was cartridge based (expenesive,restrictions) for everyone compared to CD\'s.

PSX comes along, easy to develope for, CD based and with considerable power, a pretty impressive lineup, and 100$ below the competition.

That was a unique situation that doesn\'t exactly apply today.

The situation today is...

Sony=juggernaut ( Almost 2 years on the market, given name from last generation, huge library of games)

Nintendo=underdog, not going for first anyway.  

MS=new entry,  question marks nearly everywhere.  

Sony screw up = Sony come out on top

you can see what i mean about this being XBox\'s best chance??

I wouldn\'t really call anything Sony has done a screw up...Being that PSX was a roaring success, the next generation of it was no doubt going to be in the eyes of gamers everywhere, bad media or not.  Developers knew this and saw another opportunity to cash in.  Now, why there was complaining abound about the difficulty of programming, if deveopers wanted their games on PS2 they would have to figure it out.  That and other hardware was a bit of ways off, cash in now, we\'ll get to the others later.

And I wouldn\'t call Sony launching a whole year ahead of the competition a screw up either.

I\'m not trying to be a smartass, but what did sony screw up on?


IMO, Xbox still has a big chance to grab a huge part of the market.  The system is not even 3 months old, has huge developer support, it\'s powerful, easy to develope for, hasn\'t launched everywhere, hard drive built in, modem built in...

What I\'m trying to say is "Sony screw up = Sony come out on top" is just speculation, we still have about 4-5 more years before the next gen rolls out and we know for sure...(you can\'t prove otherwise so don\'t argue it)

[Bobs_Hardware]

god dammit Ginko...ive already told you...i can see into the future  dumbass    

well, as i mentioned Sony\'s screw up were small, but they alienated most developers, sure they thought not restricting the developers to using libraries would be a good idea...but it WASNT, it cost the developers lots of time and money = screw up

most difficult machine ever to develope for as they were trying to innovate to impress the developers, driving developers away = screw up

losing some high name franchises (whther your personal opinion on them is positive or negative) due to these problems = screw up

relying on all sorts of add-ons etc. etc. = screw up

the list goes on!  c\'mon Ginko, you know how Sony have screwed up many times

they could have dropped the price down, all sorts of marketting features...it seems to me Sony could have shut down the competition even with all the hardware and developers problems if they wanted to...but HAVENT

imagine is Sony built the all powerful, all easy to use machine this gen...they built...the gamecube, or the Xbox...simple and easy...NO DEVELOPERS would have left them, such as Lorne Lanning...NO DEVELOPERS would be *****ing, the console would be unstoppable..

by not building this machine, sony gave the competitors a sniff...this sniff...was not...err....sniffed (i dont know what the **** im talking about)  you get what i mean... come on Ginko, your smart (im assuming)

YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I DO THAT SONY COULD HAVE COMPLETELY SHUT OUT ALL COMPETITION THIS GEN IF THEY WANTED TO

you\'ll have to forgive me...im drunk (well, practically, i havent touched a drink, but i am so exhasted, im dizzy, my head is spinning, cant see properly, im acting weird, you get my drift...this is freaky i think someone is spiking my water)

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
god dammit Ginko...ive already told you...i can see into the future  dumbass    

well, as i mentioned Sony\'s screw up were small, but they alienated most developers, sure they thought not restricting the developers to using libraries would be a good idea...but it WASNT, it cost the developers lots of time and money = screw up

It was the only machine on the market and it has a huge userbase.  Make a good game, make good money...How many is most?  I don\'t remember very many leaving the PS2...

most difficult machine ever to develope for as they were trying to innovate to impress the developers, driving developers away = screw up

They wouldn\'t ignore that many PS2 users.

losing some high name franchises (whther your personal opinion on them is positive or negative) due to these problems = screw up

And pay to keep the more high profile one\'s around...ala Square.  j/k...maybe.

relying on all sorts of add-ons etc. etc. = screw up

I don\'t think they will rely on them, as they already have success without them.

they could have dropped the price down, all sorts of marketting features...it seems to me Sony could have shut down the competition even with all the hardware and developers problems if they wanted to...but HAVENT

Totally agree, they could slaughter MS and N right now.  This is a big question mark.

[/quote]imagine is Sony built the all powerful, all easy to use machine this gen...they built...the gamecube, or the Xbox...simple and easy...NO DEVELOPERS would have left them, such as Lorne Lanning...NO DEVELOPERS would be *****ing, the console would be unstoppable..[/quote]

But this isn\'t the case...you have to look at what it is.  Not what it could have been.

They lost very few developers though...once again, why would someone want to ignore that impending userbase.

by not building this machine, sony gave the competitors a sniff...this sniff...was not...err....sniffed (i dont know what the **** im talking about)  you get what i mean... come on Ginko, your smart (im assuming)

you\'ll have to forgive me...im drunk

Now that I look at it, would MS have stepped in if the PS2 had been "perfect"?  Has Sony sealed their own fate?

So much speculation to be done!!

and I\'m sleepy with no interest to carry this on further...if it\'s all the same to you?

[Bobs_Hardware]

bah!  no interest!  you know im gonna whoop your ass!

but to be honest i am so ****ing dead right now, i dont even know if any of the **** i just spouted out makes sense..

g\'night, \'til next time

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
bah!  no interest!  you know im gonna whoop your ass!

but to be honest i am so ****ing dead right now, i dont even know if any of the **** i just spouted out makes sense..

g\'night, \'til next time

BRING IT ON, bring it on...

I\'ll come back when I\'m a little more collected and I can actually make sense...

oh yes...til\' next time. *imagine a laugh of impending doom coming your way.:P

c-ya

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by Ginko
It was the only machine on the market and it has a huge userbase. Make a good game, make good money...How many is most? I don\'t remember very many leaving the PS2...

not leaving, but Sony dont have full control and the exclucivity they had on the PSX...sure as far as im concerned most series like Oddworld (sorry mm) DoA, Dino Crisis etc. etc. etc. sucked balls...but they mattered to some people and the developers jumped ship with them..

Originally posted by Ginko
They wouldn\'t ignore that many PS2 users.

not fully, and PS2 does still have more backing with third parties than any other console (600+ devs :eek:) but see my point above

but whiny little ***** dev\'s such as lorne lanning did nothing but complain about how the XBox would be much more viable economically due to the fact that even if PS2 had a slight lead in the user base, XBox was so much more cost effective to develope for..

Originally posted by Ginko
And pay to keep the more high profile one\'s around...ala Square. j/k...maybe.

tee hee    its not like anyone like Microsoft would ever do such a thing is it?    Sony know Square are the most lucritive  company to have working for them, and now that they own 20% stock in them and have been helping them financiall for a number of years.. \'tis all good for my fav. company and my fav. console  

Originally posted by Ginko
I don\'t think they will rely on them, as they already have success without them.

relying on them for success?  no...relying on them to keep up technologically with XBox?  yes

Originally posted by Ginko
But this isn\'t the case...you have to look at what it is. Not what it could have been.

They lost very few developers though...once again, why would someone want to ignore that impending userbase.

i was being hypothetical for point of arguement  

Originally posted by Ginko
BRING IT ON, bring it on...

IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT!  although these are only mute points, the debate/arguement/discussion has dumbed down quite a bit, hasnt it?

[BizioEE]

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware


see now this is a point i would have doubts about...but then again, its the obvious choice, they dont want bottle necks and other constictions so they would pretty much have to change...had the current generation been Microsoft\'s second generation, i\'d be willing to bet they would have gone the same way they did this time round..

Bobs...each console of this generation have some bottlenecks somewhere and having a "new architecture" doesn\'t necessarily save you from having some problems and limitations...PS2 has a totally new architecture and I was so excited when I heard about the 2560 bit bus with 48 GB/sec...but...I didn\'t know that only data in the 4 MB of eDRAM will operate at 48 GB/sec(nearly half will go to frame and Z-buffers depending on color depth).
Anything that is not in eDRAM must come from main RAM. Using the rule of bottlenecks, you are only as fast as the slowest part in the system...

Overall,the XBox has less bottlenecks than both PS2 and GC...though it uses an "old architecture"...

[Bobs_Hardware]

another screw up on Sony\'s behalf

point taken Busy-O

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
another screw up on Sony\'s behalf

point taken Busy-O

You think just because sony made some crew ups that they are going to deny 75-100 million gamers.

You can screw up when your the dominating factor. They know there fanbase is going to carry over to the ps2. And they know developers have to come to them because of there huge fanbase. But now if sony was to pull those same mistakes with ps3 then they could find themselves losing out.

[Bobs_Hardware]

yeah i know...whats your point?

Man! Why did I neglect this topic? Many different people made asses of themselves in this thread and I missed the chance totcall them on it!

DAMN!


Eric Jacob

not leaving, but Sony dont have full control and the exclucivity they had on the PSX...sure as far as im concerned most series like Oddworld (sorry mm) DoA, Dino Crisis etc. etc. etc. sucked balls...but they mattered to some people and the developers jumped ship with them..

Had there been more viable consoles out at the time for developers to explore, I think PSX would have been a different story.

Saturn was dead, N64 was difficult to develope for,  PSX was in the mainstream, CD based, and easy to develop for.  I don\'t think developers really had a choice...point being that Sony really never had "control", it just happened that way...

NOW is a different story...they have options.  

but whiny little ***** dev\'s such as lorne lanning did nothing but complain about how the XBox would be much more viable economically due to the fact that even if PS2 had a slight lead in the user base, XBox was so much more cost effective to develope for..

true...what was the arguement here?  Was it that PS2 screwed up or something like that?  Sorry, I forgot and don\'t really want to read back...

tee hee its not like anyone like Microsoft would ever do such a thing is it? Sony know Square are the most lucritive company to have working for them, and now that they own 20% stock in them and have been helping them financiall for a number of years.. \'tis all good for my fav. company and my fav. console

MS is just as guilty I\'m sure...Sony did what they needed too.  It was a good move IMO.  Again, what was the arguement?

relying on them for success? no...relying on them to keep up technologically with XBox? yes

This is a screw up, but I don\'t think it will make any dents in Sony so to speak.

IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT! although these are only mute points, the debate/arguement/discussion has dumbed down quite a bit, hasnt it?

It\'s lost all meaning...I wish someone else would jump in with some different views on the subject...anyone?

It was/is a good debate though;)

[Bobs_Hardware]

dun\' worry Ginko, i no longer hate you  

and Altered...you still have time...  my bet is you cant do ****  :px2

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware

and Altered...you still have time...  my bet is you cant do ****  :px2

I have the same feeling...step up Altered.