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Author Topic: Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?  (Read 2073 times)

Offline Paul2

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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2002, 09:50:32 PM »
I don\'t know how you people figure that ps2 can do 1080.  xbox can do 1920 x 1080 out of their box.  NCube mention 480p at their highest.  Most of ps2 games run at 480i/p.  The output, even in component is 480i.  Doesn\'t mean something that supports component will output hdtv.

This site have a specification of ps2:  I will pull a part out of what it said.

Display Output

NTSC/PAL

Digital TV (DTV)

VESA (maximum 1280 x 1024 pixels)

Silicon Process Technology: 0.25 4-level metal

Total Number of Transistors: 43 million


It claims that it can do VESA 1280 x 1024 at it maximum pixels.  So my guess is that it can do 1280 x 1024 at 60hz in VESA 32 bits color (over 4 billion kind of colors.) at it maximum.  I wonder why they put have 32 bits color for.  The human eyes can only see about 10 million colors differences.  24 bits is more than enough color for us(16.8 millions).  32 bits just wasted the RAM memory.  So, I guess ps2 can do hdtv quality.

Offline Paul2

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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2002, 10:02:01 PM »
Maybe Sledstorm runs in high defintion quality.  Unfortunately, the ps2 output (not to be confused wiht the game\'s output) runs in 480i, doesn\'t matter if you connect component.  PsOne is 480i output.  Sony wants to make ps2 compatible with PsOne accesories, like controllers, multi output, plug cable, and games.  Since the multi out is backward compatible with each other, ps2 and psOne. The output will be only in 480i.  That\'s my theory, I am not sure though.  One of the many reasons why games have too many noticable jaggies have to do with the interlaced output from ps2 even if the game run in progressive mode.  There have been talks about VGA cable that actually runs in 480p from Sony.  In the instruction booklet, they mention about some software that will makes ps2 hdtv compatible.  Go look at the instruction manuel.  The section is "Note" on page 7.

Offline videoholic

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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2002, 04:05:29 AM »
Those component cables don\'t make the thing HD compatible.  It doesn\'t do anything but split the colors up to seperate channels.  It would take the purchase of some sort of VGA adapter or something of which I have not seen available to make it HD.

Heck, the picks on their website don\'t even look HD.  They look like SD bull crap.  If it\'s capable of HD, you would see damn good screen shots in 16x9.

So I think the game may be capable of it, but the PS2 not.  This is the first I am hearing that the PS2 is capable of 1080i.  I assumed the VGA output when it came out was going to give me 480p.  BUt at least that is twice the resolution of SD crap.  Maybe one day we will get an adapter to make it all work.  I dunno, but I sure would like to see it.
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Offline fastson
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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2002, 05:33:02 AM »
This is what it says on SCEA\'s site..

Quote
Which Display Resolutions are supported ?

NTSC/PAL interlaced and non-interlaced
DTV 480P, 720P and 1080I modes
VESA modes 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024 at 60/75 Hz


PS2 can do everything you tell it to.
Its all made in the software code.

PS2 can output VGA resolutions via the AV output on the back (Linux OS is a proof of that).
PS2 DOES support HDTV..
Ive heard that from two programmers from two different developers (Square and some SCEA first party team. Red something)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2002, 05:36:01 AM by fastson »
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Offline kirath
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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2002, 05:34:18 AM »
Do a google search or a deja search for "sled storm hdtv" and you will see what I am talking about..  

Appearantly they figured out a way to  do DTS on the PS2 and they also figured out a way to do 1080i..

If it were a 1080i signal it would be over the component output of the PS2, its the only method of carrying an 1080i signal.

Hey its the first I heard of it too, thats why I am trying to figure this out...
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Offline kirath
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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2002, 08:02:12 AM »
So now I just read somewhere that a PS2 made on or before Sept. 2000 is not capable of 1080i but ones made after this date is??

WTF is that..  If that is true there better be some sort of firmware update for these bad boys.  Or I am gonna have to do that mad swap somewhere...
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Offline fastson
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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2002, 08:16:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by kirath
So now I just read somewhere that a PS2 made on or before Sept. 2000 is not capable of 1080i but ones made after this date is??

WTF is that..  If that is true there better be some sort of firmware update for these bad boys.  Or I am gonna have to do that mad swap somewhere...


I dont think so...
Then why can a "old" PS2 run Linux just as good as a new one?

Sounds BS:itty to me.
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Offline seven
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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2002, 08:33:55 AM »
huh, Dolby Digitial and HDTV were never invented by the developers. It\'s all up to the developers what they want to do, what they want to achieve with the amount of performance given to them.

The GPU (Graphics Synthesizer) supports:
  • At 640 x 480 it can display it at 85 Hz
  • at 1280 x 1024 it falls to 75 Hz.
  • It can display 1920 x 1080 at 60 Hz (1080i)


This info is from the Graphics Synthesizer manual which every PS2-developer gets.

Maybe now people will understand what makes PS2 so powerful and more flexible than other consoles. Freedom and flexibility.

Offline Paul2

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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2002, 08:34:37 PM »
I think Fastson and seven seems to know what they are talking about.

It sucks that games run in 1280 x 1024 progressive will output in 1080 interlaced.  Gah, i hate interlaced.  It\'s possible to ouput down to 720p?  I think its okay to watch interlaced movies, but for games.  There are lots of cocentration and it make me feels dizzy watching interlace pictures.  Anyway, to be honest.  There\'s haven\'t been any hdtv monitor that\'s capable of outputting 720p mode (at least not the ones i know of, plasma tv maybe, but they\'re pricey).  Most hdtv are 480p, and 1080i modes.  Why?  I think engineers are built cheap hdtv but sell high in market.  720p will be expensive for engineer i guess.

Offline THX
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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2002, 11:03:20 PM »
To put an end to the madness:

Sled Storm for the PS2 is definitely NOT 1080i capable.

Link 1
Link 2

And DTS for the PS2 does not sound nearly as good as DD on the Xbox.  Come to my house for a demo of SSX Tricky vs Halo.  It\'s just a matter of simple hardware numbers.  The Xbox has a dedicated 5.1 capable sound proc while the PS2 is sacrificing one of its VU\'s for the sound (at the developers\' descretion).  Doesn\'t matter if DTS has a higher bitrate.

fyi- DTS bitrate is usually 768kbps (downgraded from 1.4mbps from earlier DVDs) and this is what the PS2 outputs.  The Xbox outputs a full 640kbps for its DD bitrate, the max Dolby Digital allows and upped from the usually 350kbps.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2002, 11:06:20 PM by THX »

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Offline Paul2

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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2002, 01:34:37 AM »
Okay, the madness is over.  Sledstorm doesn\'t support 1080i format.  Simple as that.:D

Offline seven
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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2002, 01:35:36 AM »
Quote
And DTS for the PS2 does not sound nearly as good as DD on the Xbox. Come to my house for a demo of SSX Tricky vs Halo.


I think it would be unfair to compare the two and rate of the hardware.

THX, you as a home cinema enthusiast should know that there are dvd-video movies which have better sound and others that have worse. It\'s not necesserally the hardware, but the developers (or their respective sound engineers) that should put the effort into making it sound good. Don\'t blame the hardware for it.

Offline videoholic

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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2002, 04:42:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Paul2
I think Fastson and seven seems to know what they are talking about.

It sucks that games run in 1280 x 1024 progressive will output in 1080 interlaced.  Gah, i hate interlaced.  It\'s possible to ouput down to 720p?  I think its okay to watch interlaced movies, but for games.  There are lots of cocentration and it make me feels dizzy watching interlace pictures.  Anyway, to be honest.  There\'s haven\'t been any hdtv monitor that\'s capable of outputting 720p mode (at least not the ones i know of, plasma tv maybe, but they\'re pricey).  Most hdtv are 480p, and 1080i modes.  Why?  I think engineers are built cheap hdtv but sell high in market.  720p will be expensive for engineer i guess.


I think you are smoking crack.

480p is not HD.  I think they call it Extended definition or something stupid like that.  480p is a standard of digital television  and you can take a look at it if you see the crap that FOX puts out in their Widescreen.  It looks better than 480i, but it still sucks.  720P and 1080i are HD.  And all HD units are capable of both or they wouldn\'t be HD units.  They better be because CBS broadcasts 1080i and ABC broadcasts in 720p.
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Offline Paul2

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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2002, 12:30:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Videoholic


I think you are smoking crack.

480p is not HD.  I think they call it Extended definition or something stupid like that.  480p is a standard of digital television  and you can take a look at it if you see the crap that FOX puts out in their Widescreen.  It looks better than 480i, but it still sucks.  720P and 1080i are HD.  And all HD units are capable of both or they wouldn\'t be HD units.  They better be because CBS broadcasts 1080i and ABC broadcasts in 720p.


480p is called enhanced definition tv.  I think you misunderstood what I am trying to say.  Do you know the hdtv monitors that are currently in the market?  The monitors have this output, 480i(sdtv), 480p(edtv), and 1080i(hdtv) mode.  Meaning?
If you watch video with 480i source, it will play in 480i format or you can upconvert it to 480p or 960i.  IF you watch 480p.  It it will run smoothly in 480p format.  But if you have hdtv signals, like 1080i.  It will play 1080i format.  What about 720p?  The quality that abc broadcast?  Well, nearly all hdtv monitors right now doesn\'t support 720p, so the 720p will be convert to 1080 signal format.  why didn\'t engineers added the 720p format to hdtv so 720p signal can runs in it native format have to do with cost.  720p is a progressive signal that runs at about 46khz.  Mulitply it by 60 frames(hz).  1080i runs at about 34khz scan rate.  Mulitply it by 30 frames(hz).  1080i a bit faster than 480p which runs at 31.5 khz.(mulitply it by 60hz).  Notice that when you multiply it, it a little less than what it was.  because picture view in 480p for instance actually have more lines (about 525 lines of resolution but only 480 are viewable).
So, 525 lines time 60 frame(hz) equal 31.5 khz.
that\'s about 525p @ 60hz.  But only 480 lines are viewable.
I hope i am not confusing you.  I am not good at explaining things.  Someone in this forum might know what I means and could explain it to you better.

Offline Paul2

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Sledstorm first HDTV game for ps2 - ?
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2002, 12:53:30 AM »
Also, all hdtv currently on the market actually doesn\'t have up to 2 millions pixels as they claim.  The hdtv monitors actually have about 1 millions to 1.3 million pixels.

Its has this weird format.

Phillips 34" widescreen hdtv, for instance has this format. (at least Phillips are honest about it)

1200 x 1080i (about 1.3 million pixels).  Not even 1920 x 1080i.
But, it still consider hdtv quality because the specification for hdtv have to be at least a million pixels and 1200 x 1080 has over a million.  and the specification mention that it has to run at least 24 frames per second progressively.  1200 x 1080i runs at 30 frames per second or 60 fields.  That\'s higher than 24p.

RCA 38" widescreen hdtv monitor, runs at 1280 x 1080i.

If you don\'t believe me.  Check many companies website that sell tvs, like Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Sharp, etc....
those companies that made hdtv monitors have a specification of 1080i.  it didn\'t say 1920 x 1080i.  Just 1080i.  And nearly none of them mention 720p as one of the hdtv native format.

So they leave us (consumers) hangs.  1080i could means anything.
it could be 640 x 1080i.  But that\'s not over a million pixels so i doubted.  It could be 960 x 1080i.  That\'s over a million pixels.  But stills, not their highest 1080i quality.

So, that\'s why these tv companies haven\'t support 720p format.  They try to cut the cost of hdtv and hdtv is still new and aren\'t that popular yet.

Back to the topic.  Why is 720p isn\'t support?

Look it this way.
Give RCA 38" widescreen hdtv monitor for example.
it runs at 1280 x 1080 @ 30 hz at it maximum.
if you mulitiply all the numbers together.  You will get about 42 megahertz.  Just clock it up to 50mhz.
1280 x 720 x 60 hz will give you about 56 megahertz.  i will round that up to 60mhz.  There is about 10 mhz differences.
that\'s why most 720p format will convert to 1080i format because it requires less bandwidth because of interlace format.

I am hoping I am not confusing you guys here.:D

 

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