Hello

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Poll

Please read topic first, Am I right, black holes can“t exist?

ou are right!!!!
1 (14.3%)
o, sorry you are wrong
3 (42.9%)
ot sure
3 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Author Topic: Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes  (Read 912 times)

Offline Titan

  • Sniper Kitten
  • Administrator
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16583
  • Karma: +12/-0
  • PSN ID: flightlessbeaker
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2002, 01:37:58 PM »
Your making me think Bossieman. You are the only one I know that can make me think about science like you can. What if the black hole theory was blown way out of proportion? It could have been exaggerated. Maybe somethings can escape while others can\'t. Maybe they aren\'t as big as we thought. IMO, the only way to be sure is if we launch something to a suspected blackhole site and see what happens (yeah, like in 1000 years when we explore the frontier of space.) I am very interested in space and astronomy. I hope we explore more of space within my lifetime.
Liquid Spam of The Spaminators
"That took some balls to stick a gun in his pants." -Gman
"LOL u know id fuck yu wsboth right? i would love to fuck the both of uyouy

U R FUCJKGIN FCUTE" -THX to luke and Bob

"13 year old girls sleep with older men cause they think theyre in love
13 year old boys sleep with older women cause theyd be stupid not to

Offline FatalXception
  • The Anti-Spam
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3199
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2002, 02:16:01 PM »
A few points:

1)  Black holes can be any size, the secret is that they have to have mass such that at any point on the surface, light doesn\'t have escape velocity.  There are very small black holes, the size of a city, with less mass than our sun.  However, they are so dense, that light from the surface cannot escape the event horizon.  If you increase the mass, the size may not generally get bigger, but the distance from the center of the hole from which light can\'t escape gets bigger.

2)  If you want to explain your example, you need reletivaty (something in which I personally don\'t believe, but here is it\'s explanation):  First of all, you can\'t travel at c, or even near c.  The equation of relativity says that for matter to travel at c, it must become energy.  Anything of substantial enough mass to affect a black hole will never be able to approach and then escape as you said;  however, if you had:
a)lets say, a large mass neutron star (10s of km across), that was travelling RELATIVE to a black hole very quickly, say, .5 c, close enough that their gravities would affect each other, far enough that the pass would just change their paths, and a
b)black hole that\'s event horizon was literally just above the surface of the black hole object, then in passing, if the neutron star could allow some of the energy/mass of the black hole to escape the hole (for a short time), then the hole object would become visible until that matter was pulled back in.  
c)  Because the effect would be short lived from the passing object/star, as soon as it was far away, the black hole, which would still exert a gravitational pull, would probably pull back in it\'s mass.  Some light may escape, hence energy, but once it had most of it\'s mass back, it would be a black hole again.  Even if the lost energy/bit of mass is enough to turn it back into a non b-h object (one who\'s event horizon would be basically at the surface, for all intents and purposes), the gravity/tidal stresses exerted by passing would generate more energy and heat within it, eventually leading to further compression, and it would soon become a black hole again anyways.
d) It\'s not like a magical equation, visible object, very massive... add 1 kg, and it becomes a black hole.  Things get very funky when we look at gravity from objects like this.  Relativity can\'t explain it well, but gravity becomes MORE than just a force at these powers and distances.  Gravity more than just visible space, but time as well.  Objects very close to the threshold of a black hole would have some all might wierd properties.

Dislaimer:
I\'m getting most of this out of an astronomy textbook, from a second year physics/astronomy course at university.  I could be mis-reading or mis-understanding parts of it.  
I personally don\'t believe that relativity is correct, parts of it have been disproven, and it basically is self-fulfilling (it\'s proof).. but right now, it\'s the most adequate explanation for the universe in terms of examining characteristics on or around the speed of light.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2002, 02:20:38 PM by FatalXception »
FatalXception

Murphy\'s Law - What can go wrong, will.
Poker Law      - Magnum .44 beats four aces.
Cole\'s Law      - Thinly sliced cabbage.

Offline videoholic

  • Silly little freak
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 18034
  • Karma: +10/-0
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2002, 03:18:04 PM »
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH, those black holes..  whew...
I wear a necklace now because I like to know when I\'m upside down.
 kopking: \"i really think that i how that guy os on he weekend\"
TheOmen speaking of women: \"they\'re good at what they do, for what they are.\"
Swifdi:

Offline theomen
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7762
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2002, 03:19:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Videoholic
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH, those black holes..  whew...


yeah we\'re not talking about Shaniqua, and Takisha down the block.

Offline videoholic

  • Silly little freak
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 18034
  • Karma: +10/-0
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2002, 03:22:01 PM »
Way over my head then.  I now return you to your highly sophisticated craziness.  I must leave before my head blows up.
I wear a necklace now because I like to know when I\'m upside down.
 kopking: \"i really think that i how that guy os on he weekend\"
TheOmen speaking of women: \"they\'re good at what they do, for what they are.\"
Swifdi:

Offline cloud345
  • Super Bowl XXXVII
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2047
  • Karma: +10/-0
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2002, 04:24:36 PM »
Ok im 11......and Im pretty sure they exist I mean arent there pictures? :confused:



     Well anyway I belive there are black holes they occur when a star Explodes. They cause a huge gravitational pull in many directions which create the black hole. Thats my theory.
1.FF7
  2. Grandia
  3. MGS
Is it me? Or does PSone own all the other systems?

Offline theomen
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7762
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2002, 04:28:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cloud345
Ok im 11......and Im pretty sure they exist I mean arent there pictures? :confused:



     Well anyway I belive there are black holes they occur when a star Explodes. They cause a huge gravitational pull in many directions which create the black hole. Thats my theory.


they THINK they exist, because of xrays being emitted from them.  And also because of frame dragging.

Offline SonyFan
  • EGA Warrior - Mod
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2775
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2002, 05:38:47 PM »
What would happen if a Black hole swallowed another black hole? Is that possible? Or what if, say, there were two black holes who\'s event horizon\'s overlapped each other? Would the area in the overlap be negated and end up like normal space or would it cause an entirely different phenomenon?

Also, I can\'t remember exactly where I read this, but I thought that once you crossed the event horizon.. all time stopped. Since even light dosen\'t have an escape velocity great enough to break free, once you approach the speed of light time slows to a stop according to reletivity right? So in essence, if you could somehow survive crossing the event horizon, your body would be instantly crushed and added to the mass of the blackhole.. YET you\'d still exist at the edge of the event horizon exactly as you were when you entered. Is this the frame dragging Theomen was talking about or am I totally off base?
Please Bleed.. so I know that you are real.
Please Bleed.. so I know that you can feel the damage that you\'ve done.
What have I become? To myself I am numb. ~ Ben Harper
Plane Crash <-- moe. (Listen to while staring at Heat\'s Avvy.)
PSO Ep I & II~ Tesla: LvL 101 HUmar |Sinue: LvL 32 RAcaseal |Mana: LvL 52 FOnewearl |Malice: LvL 42 RAmarl

Offline theomen
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7762
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2002, 06:26:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SonyFan
What would happen if a Black hole swallowed another black hole? Is that possible? Or what if, say, there were two black holes who\'s event horizon\'s overlapped each other? Would the area in the overlap be negated and end up like normal space or would it cause an entirely different phenomenon?

Also, I can\'t remember exactly where I read this, but I thought that once you crossed the event horizon.. all time stopped. Since even light dosen\'t have an escape velocity great enough to break free, once you approach the speed of light time slows to a stop according to reletivity right? So in essence, if you could somehow survive crossing the event horizon, your body would be instantly crushed and added to the mass of the blackhole.. YET you\'d still exist at the edge of the event horizon exactly as you were when you entered. Is this the frame dragging Theomen was talking about or am I totally off base?


Frame Dragging was an idea Einstein came up with, that the rotation of an object would alter space and time, dragging a nearby object out of position compared to predictions by the simpler math of Sir Isaac Newton.

From what I understand, due to the spinning of a Kerr Blackhole, it will begin to strat spining the closer planets, dragging them so to say.  Some scientist believe this is why some spiral galaxies are formed in the way that they are.

As for time stopping, yes that\'s the generally accepted idea, but it\'s a bit more complex than that.  Time and distance swap characteristics.

*edit* here I found a nice pic of Frame Dragging

Offline jinxx
  • Junior Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2002, 07:08:03 PM »
It is a freaking hole! Who really cares about it if it dosn\'t effect the rotation of earth and therefore our lives. When we start moving towards one I will start to care. And if someone could put this into wal-mart terms so us scientiffically challenged can follow........um, i\'ll shut up now.
I never wanted to change the world, i only wanted the simple things, if this is my stage i hope you can hear me screaming, i dont want this shit anymore......

Offline theomen
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7762
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2002, 07:17:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by jinxx
It is a freaking hole! Who really cares about it if it dosn\'t effect the rotation of earth and therefore our lives. When we start moving towards one I will start to care. And if someone could put this into wal-mart terms so us scientiffically challenged can follow........um, i\'ll shut up now.


Actually some scientist believe it does affect, and warp our little world.  While it is on a tiny level, it does effect us, because they believe there is a black hole in the milky way!  SCARY!  well maybe not, but interesting none the less.

Offline ##RaCeR##
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4963
  • Karma: +10/-0
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2002, 07:41:16 PM »
What I wanna know, is where does the stuff go when its sucked into a black hole.

Everything you said Bossieman went over my head.

Offline theomen
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7762
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Can someone here prove me wrong? Black holes
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2002, 08:05:10 PM »
Well that\'s the same question the scientific worl wants to know.  As the first rule of quantum mechanics is information can\'t be destroyed.  So if stuff goes is, what happens to it?

One idea is that it get\'s mashed down, for lack of a better word, until it reaches a level where it explodes.  Think of it this way, universe starts off with the big bang, universe gets sucked up into a black hole, then explodes all over again, and continues to do so over and over.  Also some scientist say that the same things take place over and over, example is when the next big gang happens, I\'ll be typing this post all over again.

Another theory is the idea of a White Hole, which would be the opposite of a black hole.  Instead of having matter go into it, matter would come out.  Kind of like a portal.

But no one knows for sure what happens.

BTW, I think these forums need a science board, that way Bossieman and I can ramble all day long!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2002, 08:15:53 PM by theomen »

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk