NBA Playoffs round 2

Why I hate Allen Iverson:

- Selfish
- Un-impressive play style
- Off-court attitdue
- Only in it for the fame/money

Theres only so much you can expect from a person like Allen Iverson. I respect his competitive drive, his talent, and him as a player, but these days it\'s becoming worse and worse. I\'ll tell you something, I\'m a dedicated SportsCenter viewer (wake up every morning at 5AM) and the controversey between him and Brown is pathetic. They keep jawing back and they still wind up at the same conclusion as before, and they embarrise themselves even more.

Face it, Philly\'s offence revolves around AI. No wonder he has had the scoring title for 2 years in a row. A person whom averages more than 30+ shots should be ashamed of himself, especially since his FG percentage is attrocious. He demands the ball on almost every possession, and expects to score. I feel sorry for Dikembe, they totaly dis-mantled his successful career.

Sure, AI has revoultanized play style a bit, but it can take him only so far. He\'s 6,0\', quick PG/SG and has a respectable verticle. His passing abilities are endless, meaning finding the open man isn\'t an option for him. Whether he wants to use his talent is the question, and thing I will slam him for. Selfish... I wonder why anyone would want to put up with him.

His off-court attitdue is totaly a joke. You know those "NBA encouraging reading" promo\'s with players? I betcha he\'s prolly just posing for the camera. If it\'s one thing he\'d rather be doing is hanging out at a club rather than giving back to the community.

And his fat contract, Reebok commercials, and his huge ego really puts a giant "fool" stamp on him. He reminds me of Stevie Franchrise.

And the fact that everyone likes him because of his competitive drive and he\'s 6,0\'! What a joke! What makes him think he\'s "too good" for everyone else? Take a look at everyone else. Kobe works so much harder than he does, Reggie Miller, Michael Jordan, Isiah Thomas, Magic, Kareem.... Sir Charles! Everyone has their own personal challenges. Shaq has his at the foul line, the so called "most dominat player in the game," (which I can\'t argue) and Tracy McGrady\'s lack of his team supporting him.

AI is "just another player" in my book.

I couldn\'t agree with you more about AI. Except the fact that he doesn\'t work as hard as Kobe. AI is tiny. 6\'0 weighs about 180 and can still score on anyone....if he doesn\'t miss like he does 60% of the time. And Kobe, he isn\'t exactly the perfect role model either. "Oh I\'m better than everyone in the league, I can\'t be guarded....and I\'m cool because i can punch my teamate in the eye." He\'s a joke, too. He\'s good, but he\'s a joke. He\'ll never be MJ, so someone better tell him that before his head doubles in size.

Oh yeah...Sir Charles - best PF ever.

Yeah, I\'ve been telling people how overrated Iverson is for years.  There are dozens of players who could score more points than he does if they took that many shots.  They don\'t though, because that isn\'t good for the team.  That why I like players like Jason Kidd, Kevin Garnett, and others who not only have incredible talent, but make everyone around them better.  If you think Iverson does that, just look at Mutumbos numbers now compared to his numbers while on the Hawks.  I think you\'ll see what moving to AI\'s team did to his career.

I almost wonder if the Sixers would react to losing Iverson similarly to how the Raptors reacted to losing Vince Carter...

Kobe has some breathing room cause he\'s a 5-time All-Star, plus with 2 championships, and a Dunk Title. AI has 2 scoring titles, 4-time All-Star (Not sure if that\'s accurate), and a MVP. Basically all personal accomplishments.

"Your only as successful on the moment you achieve it" - Phil Jackson

I admitt it, Kobe has an ego, but he has that championship "swager," which seperates the Lakers from everyone else in the league. They are the franchrise with the most wins and have the best road record currently in the playoffs (10 game winning streak on today) and have the best overall playoff record in back-to-back championships, winning 21 of 23 overall playoff games. Now that\'s history right there ladies and gentlemen.

When I did the compairsens with Bryant vs. AI, is that AI doesn\'t physically train, cause he was never known on taking the extra step in staying in physical shape. Kobe attends his team practices, likewise Mr. AI (Insert Philly joke here). Kobe took one breath from the first championship, and he came back so determined, he went through such a huge growth process, thus learning he cannot have the team on his back and carry them himself. The media made it a worse situation that it already was. They played the "He said, she said" game.

Kobe will never be Michael Jordan. No one will. He\'ll be compared to him when his career is over, but he has a lot of learning to do. I still feel his three-point shooting is attrocious at best, and free throws could be better (as of late, he\'s been way off). I\'d like to see at least 88% from the line. He\'ll probally retire on a good note. Maybe not as memorable as Michael\'s, but it will be strong.

AHHHHHHH. Mavs lost today again. Good game though. Bobby Jackson was on fire in the 4th.. Webber and Divac both fouled out and the Mavs couldn\'t finish it off. Oh well.

well my boys are up 3-1, great game though, I dropped a pant load a couple times during that game.  It\'s nice to have a little bit of breathing room now.

You Iverson haters no nothing. Here is a guy with cracked ribs, broken cheek bone and still suited up and led his team the NBA finals last season.

Plagued bye more injuries this season iverson still came out and gave it his all for his team to win.

For those who say he is selfish. Look at his team before you run your mouth. The sixers have no team if iverson does not put up big number the sixers don\'t win. Look at there record when Iverson was out with injuries. They can\'t win unless he scores big. This is a guy that is 5\'11 he plays his ass off. No matter what his injury is he goes out and there and tries to help his team what more can you ask?

Jm to compare awards with iverson and kobe is stupid. They have two different kinds of styles. Iverson plays totally different than kobe. And Kobe has SHAQ something Iverson does not.  And that gives kobe more options. And jm what was kobe last year being called? The most selfish player in the league not passing the ball. When he has a huge superstar like shaq on his team.

Fade you know nothing about basket ball. Kobe probably would not suit up if he had the injuries Iverson has played through. And shockwaves  Kevin Garnette is a huge talent but he hasen\'t made anyone all that better on the wolves because basicly the wolves suck.

You said look at mutombo\'s numbers. Mutombo sucks. No matter what mutombo just won\'t score big. He gets the ball a lot of times and usually goes for that hook and jacks the shot. Mutumbo is a good clean up player at best maybe 10 years ago he was something but as of now he is how you say doo-doo. Iverson tries to make his team better. The guy works his but off he could have not come back with the broken hand but did for the sake of his give the guy he dues.


Back to topic I want the mavs to beat the kings looks like  3-1 is almost impossible against the kings unless you have shaq on your team. And p.s Kobe will be the next jordan.

Originally posted by QuDDus
You Iverson haters no nothing. Here is a guy with cracked ribs, broken cheek bone and still suited up and led his team the NBA finals last season.

Plagued bye more injuries this season iverson still came out and gave it his all for his team to win. did they win? No. You know why they didn\'t? Because Boston has a guy names Paul Pierce, one of the best players in the league, who doesn\'t go out bragging about it

For those who say he is selfish. Look at his team before you run your mouth. The sixers have no team if iverson does not put up big number the sixers don\'t win. Look at there record when Iverson was out with injuries. They can\'t win unless he scores big. This is a guy that is 5\'11 he plays his ass off. No matter what his injury is he goes out and there and tries to help his team what more can you ask?No team? Snow is decent, McKie was almost as All-Star in 2000-2001. Mutombo is awesome, you ignorant fool. He would put in 15 a game if Iverson didn\'t shoot 40 shots a game. Who cares if he plays through injury, more power to him.

Jm to compare awards with iverson and kobe is stupid. They have two different kinds of styles. Iverson plays totally different than kobe. And Kobe has SHAQ something Iverson does not.  And that gives kobe more options. And jm what was kobe last year being called? The most selfish player in the league not passing the ball. When he has a huge superstar like shaq on his team.You contradicted yourself right there. In the above paragraph you said Iverson takes all the shots. Then here you say Kobe takes all the shots. Tell me how they play different if they both take all the shots, according to you.

Fade you know nothing about basket ball. Kobe probably would not suit up if he had the injuries Iverson has played through. And shockwaves  Kevin Garnette is a huge talent but he hasen\'t made anyone all that better on the wolves because basicly the wolves suck.I know nothing about basketball because Kobe wouldn\'t dress up and play with some of the injuries Iverson plays through? Ok, that makes about no sense at all. I know nothing about basketball, pfft, give me a break. Garnett hasn\'t made anyone better? He could score 35 a night if he wanted to. The Wolves suck do they? And you tell me i know nothing about basketball....

You said look at mutombo\'s numbers. Mutombo sucks. No matter what mutombo just won\'t score big. He gets the ball a lot of times and usually goes for that hook and jacks the shot. Mutumbo is a good clean up player at best maybe 10 years ago he was something but as of now he is how you say doo-doo. Iverson tries to make his team better. The guy works his but off he could have not come back with the broken hand but did for the sake of his give the guy he dues.Now Iverson tries to make his team better? Whatever happened to he has no team and he has to take all the shots?


Back to topic I want the mavs to beat the kings looks like  3-1 is almost impossible against the kings unless you have shaq on your team. And p.s Kobe will be the next jordan.
Kobe will never be the next Jordan. No way, not even possible. Jordan averaged 30 points a game through his career, Kobe hasn\'t got it once in a season. Jordan was better at defense, he was more clutch, and definately got his team involved in the game. Just look at the Wiz this season.

Originally posted by Fayded You contradicted yourself right there. In the above paragraph you said Iverson takes all the shots. Then here you say Kobe takes all the shots. Tell me how they play different if they both take all the shots, according to you.

Shaq takes a lot of shots. Kobe takes a lot shots. Does shaq play like kobe?? No he doesn\'t does he. If you can\'t look at kobe and Iverson and tell that they don\'t play the same sucks to be you.

No team? Snow is decent, McKie was almost as All-Star in 2000-2001. Mutombo is awesome, you ignorant fool. He would put in 15 a game if Iverson didn\'t shoot 40 shots a game. Who cares if he plays through injury, more power to him.

That is why there record sucked ass when Iverson was out with and injury. Give me a break Mckie is decent. Mutombo is washed uped. And Snow is on again off again player he may give you 15 one night and 4 the next  four nights.

I know nothing about basketball, pfft, give me a break. Garnett hasn\'t made anyone better? He could score 35 a night if he wanted to. The Wolves suck do they? And you tell me i know nothing about basketball

Yeah the Wolves don\'t suck huh? Thats why they haven\'t gotten passed the first round yet because they are so good.

Kobe will never be the next Jordan. No way, not even possible. Jordan averaged 30 points a game through his career, Kobe hasn\'t got it once in a season. Jordan was better at defense, he was more clutch, and definately got his team involved in the game. Just look at the Wiz this season.

Do a little research and compare Kobe numbers at 23 to Jordans numbers at 23 and you will see why I said that.

Shaq takes a lot of shots. Kobe takes a lot shots. Does shaq play like kobe?? No he doesn\'t does he. If you can\'t look at kobe and Iverson and tell that they don\'t play the same sucks to be you.

I can see the difference. But you did a complete 180 in two paragraphs. Yeah, Shaq shoots alot and fouls a hella lot, but he shoots at about 50% Compared to Iversons 35%. Kobe is better than Iverson for one reason, he\'s taller. But i still hate both of them.

That is why there record sucked ass when Iverson was out with and injury. Give me a break Mckie is decent. Mutombo is washed uped. And Snow is on again off again player he may give you 15 one night and 4 the next four nights.

Yeah they did suck ass. And i didnt mind one bit. Mutombo isn\'t washed up, he has about two more good years. If Iverson would give him the ball.

Yeah the Wolves don\'t suck huh? Thats why they haven\'t gotten passed the first round yet because they are so good.

Your gonna say the T-Wolves suck when the 76ers just started getting to the playoffs again? The 76ers wont even been in the hunt in 2 years, like the T-Wolves will be (excluding all injuries and trades)

Do a little research and compare Kobe numbers at 23 to Jordans numbers at 23 and you will see why I said that.

Do a little research on Kobe\'s first 5 years compared to Jardan\'s first 5 and you\'ll see why i said that.

QuDDus is a typical AI fan at best :rolleyes:

Do you know why he team isn\'t as good as they can be? It\'s because of him. He wants to be the best, the spotlight, the one all the media wants to ask questions about after games. He seems that he\'ll get better regnition if he plagued by numerous injuries but missed in the first round. You can cry all you want about how much he\'s hurtin, but it doesn\'t mean anything unless you succeeded while ingured.

AI has a solid supporting cast, QuDDus. Last year Dikembe won All-Defensive man of the year (although that was a joke, he had better stuff that one in his closet!). He averages almost a double-double a night, he has height, and he was an excellent hook shot. To say that he\'s garbage is kinda ignorant :rolleyes:

Did I mention Kobe made All-NBA team this year, QuDDus? Hmm, AI didn\'t. Oh and Kobe has injuries too. His hand is severly banged up, and ankle. Shaq has just as many injuries as AI has. His arthritic toe, his wrist, his index finger, and his left sprained ankle! And he\'s still doing his job. Maybe not those 26.6PPG 15RPG\'s like last year, but he\'s getting the job done.

You know why Kobe and AI play different? AI doesn\'t play the triangle. Philly\'s offense revolves around isolations and picks so AI can score. Phil Jackson\'s theory is "The game reveals the player. The triangle reveals the game." Phil\'s offense was always the triangle. When he first went into LA in 1999, he said their offense was simply put the ball in someone\'s hands and score, then if it didn\'t work, re-work it. Now you got an offense that ulilizes the Laker talent. Kobe to penetrate the defense, Fisher/Horry/Shaw with clutch threes, and Shaq, who is dominant in the paint.

Lakers aren\'t the Lakers unless they have the whole package. They aren\'t better without Kobe or without Shaq or Fisher. There comes a time and need for each one of those players.

Oh and about getting team envolved, did I mention Kobe is the team leader in assists? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

QuDDus, you come in here saying we are the ones that know nothing.  I take a look at your posts, and I see more senseless jibberish, to put it lightly, than any other post in this topic.

Iverson doesn\'t have a team to work with?  Well, last time I checked, Mutumbo was the best center in the East.  But I guess we\'ll just ignore him.  Last I checked, Coleman, who averaged nearly a double double this year, wasn\'t that bad either.  I also wonder how Eric Snow got to be so bad (even though he leads the team in assists).  You know where Iverson was missed when he was out?  On the defensive end.  He is a damn good defensive player, if you watch him.  Offensively, he shot below 40%.  No team is going to miss a player offensively that shoots like that.

Another thing, playing your ass off and being unselfish are two different things.  No one is denying that he plays his ass off.  The question is, who\'s he doing it for, the team, or himself.  I think the answer is clearly himself.  I also think that if you put Iverson on another team, one with either a coach with half a brain, who runs a system that gets more than one person involved, or one where Iverson has less help, the way Jordan did this year, he would fall apart.  

As for Kevin Garnett, if you ask me, he is the best all around player in the game.  He can do it all, score, rebound, defend, etc.  The thing that makes him special though, is he is the most unselfish player in the league.  He averaged over 20 points, over 10 boards, and over 5 assists a game.  Unlike Iverson, he shot a decent percentage too (47%).  But look for a moment at the rest of his team.  They put up a fight in the first round without their starting PG, Terrell Brandon.  Sure they lost, but are you telling me the Sixers wouldn\'t have lost too against the Mavs?  Garnett had 24 points, 18.7 boards, and 5 assists per game in that series.  You think it\'s his fault they lost?

If you want proof of how unselfish Garnett is, look for a moment at Wally Szczerbiak.  Wally spent a good deal of his time demanding the ball.  And why not, he shot over 50% this year.  The bottom line is, Garnett didn\'t challenge him on it.  He didn\'t tell Wally that he was the star on the team, and the offense would run through him.  Instead, he gave Wally what he wanted, and Wally became an all star.  I\'d like to see you name another player in the NBA who would do that.  I know Iverson wouldn\'t.

Iverson is the most overrated player in the league.  There are plenty of people with more talent than him.  And oh yeah, there are plenty of players who would kill for the supporting cast he has too.

Well, you two pretty much said everything. But i just wanna mention something....Derek Fisher is one of the most over-rated players in the league. Have you noticed that 99% of his 3 point shots are wide open ones? You know why that is? Because the opposing team puts all their attention on Shaq and Kobe, and usually double teams one of them. Leaving Fisher open for the wide open 3 pointer. And if you\'re a PG in the NBA, you better be able to make a wide open shot.

Fisher over-rated??? Where have you been? Fisher is always under pressure when he shoots. They usually kick him the ball when his man is in front of him. Take a look at Game 2 and 3. Fisher is far from the best PG in the game, but his defense and three-point shooting is very solid and above average.

Horry is the one left open when they kick out the ball to him.

Last year in the playoffs in was Fisher with the open shots, then the announcers went on saying how great he was and how underrated he is. I\'ve hated him since then. And yeah, against the Spurs he made a couple tough 3 pointers, but a majority of the ones he takes are open.