Hello

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Author Topic: Chandra Levy Found!!  (Read 2159 times)

Offline Fayded
  • POW
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1220
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2002, 06:58:36 PM »
Ok Clowd, were they just supposed to tear the buildings down because they weren\'t "state of the art" anymore and build two more buildings that are? Those buildings were still pretty safe with today\'s standards and would have done fine for a long time to come. If they were modern day they wouldn\'t have fallen at all? Pfft...like luckee said, the jet fuel would have burned the metal if it was a "new" building.
[color=4682B4]
Who needs a signature?
[/color]
[/size]

Offline mjps21983
  • Red Sox Suck!!!
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2833
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2002, 11:11:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SonyFan


Well that, and it also has a great deal to do with WHERE they were hit. I\'ll TRY to make a diagram

 -----
|     |
|     <
|     |
|     |
|     |
|     |  - Ok, the planes hit around here or a little higher. WHen the jets exploded, they spewed ignited Jet fuel everywhere inside those floors and melted the "weak" support inside. With the outter skin comprimised it couldn\'t hold up those damaged floors. It\'d be the same thing as if you just lifted up the top floors, took out the floors where the planes hit, and then dropped the top floors. The top levels compressed almost instantly creatting a "hammer like" blow streight down through the rest of the towers which were still structurally strong. In fact, the way the towers were built, the outer skins actually stood longer than the floors which were being torn out from the inside. That helped a great deal to control the spread of the damage. There wasn\'t enough weight on the top to topple the towers in any one direction. If something had toppled at an angle.. it would have only been the top floors above where the plane hit. If they had hit lower...

------
|     |
|     |
|     |
|     |
|     |
|     <
|     | - Then you\'d have a building severed from it\'s foundation. The bottom floors would have compressed first, and quickly. With no more room to pack in rubble, the remaining debris would have slid off the top of the pile and into the NYC skyline. A controlled blast take a building out this way.. but this wasn\'t a controlled blast. Also, if it\'d had collapsed from the bottom up, there\'d be nothing to support the debris from wind velocity as it fell... which could have worsend the scenario.

Here\'s an experiment. Take two empty pop cans and sit them on the ground. Take the first one and stomp on it as hard as you can streight down. Ooohhh.. look. It crushed into a nice neat little area barely bigger than the circumfrance of the can itself. Now take the other one and do the same thing, but this time, make a sizeable dent by the bottom of the can. Look at the difference between the two crushed cans... then think of those as the World Trade Center.

Oh, and about the explosions. Do you really think the WTC didn\'t have combustables inside? Fire Extinquishers expecially, in the upper floors, would make a sizable explosion when comprimised. In the lower floors.. well.. I doubt many of those eye witnesses have been in a collapsing building before. There could be a hundred different causes for those explosion sounds and most of them far-far more plausable than actual explosives.

Oh, and Mjps- Why don\'t you believe we landed on the moon? Been watching too many Fox specials again? Funny thing about that show.. at the same time there was a documentary on PBS about the moon landing.. and none of the pics or videos they showed had any of the "evidence" that the Fox program was talking about. Not to mention that it would have been a lot more credible if they had actual Nasa scientists there to refute the claims instead of one low-level peeon who was basically there to just catch hell and look stoopid.

BTW: If it was all just a conspiracy, why did we continue the facade for so long? Why include a disasater the size of Apollo 13? Why send back two more missions after that? If it was all just Cold-War posturing (which although, WAS, a good part of it).. why didn\'t we just thumb our noses at the Russians and start building stations and try to beat them at their newest endevors such as docking in space and such? Sure we built SkyLab.. but at a much later time than the Russians.


Then please explain to my stupid arse how exactly we got to the moon without being melted? Those space suits aren\'t that reputable.

Offline Cyrus
  • You want this?
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2454
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2002, 11:13:15 AM »
ceramic plateing its much more heat resistant but you clouldnt build a building out of it.
When did I realize I was God? One day I was praying and suddenly realized I was talking to myself.[/font]

Offline clowd
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2187
  • Karma: +10/-0
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2002, 09:54:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fayded
Ok Clowd, were they just supposed to tear the buildings down because they weren\'t "state of the art" anymore and build two more buildings that are? Those buildings were still pretty safe with today\'s standards and would have done fine for a long time to come. If they were modern day they wouldn\'t have fallen at all? Pfft...like luckee said, the jet fuel would have burned the metal if it was a "new" building.


Well there is the Empire state building which is much older, I dont think it should be tore down, nor the the wtc.

But its a shame archeticts have to consider planes flying into them.

As for metal being  burned I\'ll have to look up more info on that.  The steel support that holds up modern day buildings is different positions then back then so the position may help.

Offline luckee
  • Resident Pimp
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7503
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2002, 10:04:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Clowd


Well there is the Empire state building which is much older, I dont think it should be tore down, nor the the wtc.

But its a shame archeticts have to consider planes flying into them.

As for metal being  burned I\'ll have to look up more info on that.  The steel support that holds up modern day buildings is different positions then back then so the position may help.


first off, they have to account for ANYTHING when designing super structures..whether it be a skyscraper..off shore oil rig, long bridges...etc..

second..WTC has already been tore down(what was left anyway)

third....different positions has nothing to do with metal melting. I dont care how well a building is designed...a hot enough burn will melt damn near ANYTHING!
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

Offline clowd
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2187
  • Karma: +10/-0
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2002, 10:09:35 PM »
Something just came up in the back of my mind, I remember someone saying something about fire proof buildings.

You remember anything about this?

I think the WTC was suppose to be one of them

Offline luckee
  • Resident Pimp
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7503
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2002, 10:18:53 PM »
I doubt it..or its structure wouldnt have been melted. I doubt many buildings..if any are "fireproof". It would be wayyyyy to exspensive..especially in the case of the twin towers.
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

Offline mjps21983
  • Red Sox Suck!!!
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2833
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2002, 10:19:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by luckee

third....different positions has nothing to do with metal melting. I dont care how well a building is designed...a hot enough burn will melt damn near ANYTHING!


Look at what he just said, fire proof yes, melt proof no!!!

Offline luckee
  • Resident Pimp
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7503
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2002, 10:27:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mjps21983


Look at what he just said, fire proof yes, melt proof no!!!


ok man..why pick hairs? :)
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

Offline mjps21983
  • Red Sox Suck!!!
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2833
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2002, 10:39:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by luckee


ok man..why pick hairs? :)


I was just backin up what u said sorry, if you got the wrong idea i was talking about what clowd said not u.

Offline luckee
  • Resident Pimp
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7503
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2002, 02:04:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mjps21983


I was just backin up what u said sorry, if you got the wrong idea i was talking about what clowd said not u.


I guess Im just simple tonight or something...sorry :)
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

Offline SonyFan
  • EGA Warrior - Mod
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2775
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2002, 02:41:36 AM »
Quote
Then please explain to my stupid arse how exactly we got to the moon without being melted? Those space suits aren\'t that reputable. - mjps...whatever


Uh, jus WTF do you mean by that? Who\'s doubting their reputability? Why would we melt in space? Sure the Earth\'s atmosphere protects us from a vast majority of the sun\'s heat and radiation.. but those same space suits we used to land on the moon were used in close earth orbit spacewalks. What do you think our astronauts wore when taking EVA\'s to fix sattelites and preform experiments? And why is it so hard to believe that those suits were heat shielded? Have you ever seen those suits scientists wear to study volcanos? Nothing but a thin sheet of aluminum foil!!

Or maybe you\'re talking about the Van Allen Radiation belts. Well, I\'m not an expert, but I found a quip from site at CalTech that might answer your questions.

Quote
Regarding the Van Allen belts, and the nature of the radiation in them, they are doughnut-shaped regions where charged particles, both protons and electrons, are trapped in the Earth\'s magnetic field. The number of particles encountered (flux is the technical jargon, to impress your friends!) depends on the energy of the particles; in general, the flux of high-energy particles is less, and the flux of low-energy particles is more. Very low energy particles cannot penetrate the skin of a spacecraft, nor even the skin of an astronaut. Very roughly speaking, electrons below about 1 million electron volts (MeV) are unlikely to be dangerous, and protons below 10 MeV are also not sufficiently penetrating to be a concern. The actual fluxes encountered in the Van Allen belts is a matter of great commercial importance, as communications satellites operate in the outer region, and their electronics, and hence lifetimes, are strongly affected by the radiation environment. Thus billions of dollars are at stake, never mind the Moon! The standard database on the fluxes in the belt are the models for the trapped radiation environment, AP8 for protons, and AE8 for electrons, maintained by the National Space Sciences Data Center at NASA\'s Goddard Spaceflight Center. Barth (1999) gives a summary which indicates that electrons with energies over 1 MeV have a flux above a million per square centimeter per second from 1-6 earth radii (about 6,300 - 38,000 km), and protons over 10 MeV have a flux above one hundred thousand per square centimeter per second from about 1.5-2.5 Earth radii (9,500 km - 16,000 km).

Then what would be the radiation dose due to such fluxes, for the amount of time an astronaut crew would be exposed? This was in fact a serious concern at the time that the Apollo program was first proposed. Unfortunately I have not located quantitative information in the time available, but my recollection is that the dose was roughly 2 rem (= 20 mSv, milli-Sievert).

The time the astronauts would be exposed is fairly easy to calculate from basic orbital mechanics, though probably not something most students below college level could easily verify. You have perhaps heard that to escape from Earth requires a speed of about 7 miles per second, which is about 11.2 km per sec. At that speed, it would require less than an hour to pass outside the main part of the belts at around 38,000 km altitude. However it is a little more complicated than that, because as soon as the rocket motor stops burning, the spacecraft immediately begins to slow down due to the attraction of gravity. At 38,000 km altitude it would actually be moving only about 4.6 km per sec, not 11.2. If we just take the geometric average of these two, 7.2 km per sec, we will not be too far off, and get about 1.5 hours for the time to pass beyond 38,000 km.

Unfortunately calculating the average radiation dose received by an astronaut in the belts is quite intricate in practice, though not too hard in principle. One must add up the effects of all kinds of particles, of all energies. For each kind of particle (electrons and protons in this situation) you have to take account of the shielding due to the Apollo spacecraft and the astronaut space suits. Here are some approximate values for the ranges of protons and electrons in aluminum:


Range in Aluminum [cm] Energy
[MeV] electrons protons
1 0.15  ~ nil  
3 0.56  ~ nil  
10 1.85  0.06  
30 no flux  0.37  
100 no flux  3.7  

For electrons, the AE8 electron data shows negligible flux (< 1 electron per square cm per sec) over E=7 MeV at any altitude. The AP8 proton compilations indicates peak fluxes outside the spacecraft up to about 20,000 protons per square cm per sec above 100 MeV in a region around 1.7 Earth radii, but because the region is narrow, passage takes only about 5 min. Nevertheless, these appear to be the principal hazard.

These numbers seem generally consistent with the ~2 rem doses I recall. If every gram of a person\'s body absorbed 600,000 protons with energy 100 MeV, completely stopping them, the dose would be about 50 mSv. Assuming a typical thickness of 10 cm for a human and no shielding by the spacecraft gives a dose of something like 50 mSv in 300 sec due to protons in the most intense part of the belt.

For comparison, the US recommended limit of exposure for radiation workers is 50 mSv per year, based on the danger of causing cancer. The corresponding recommended limits in Britain and Cern are 15 mSv. For acute doses, the whole-body exposure lethal within 30 days to 50% of untreated cases is about 2.5-3.0 Gy (Gray) or 250-300 rad; in such circumstances, 1 rad is equivalent to 1 rem.

So the effect of such a dose, in the end, would not be enough to make the astronauts even noticeably ill. The low-level exposure could possibly cause cancer in the long term. I do not know exactly what the odds on that would be, I believe on the order of 1 in 1000 per astronaut exposed, probably some years after the trip. Of course, with nine trips, and a total of 3 X 9 = 27 astronauts (except for a few, like Jim Lovell, who went more than once) you would expect probably 5 or 10 cancers eventually in any case, even without any exposure, so it is not possible to know which if any might have been caused by the trips.

Much of this material can be found in the 1999 "Review of Particle Properties", (see below) in the sections on "Atomic and nuclear properties of materials", on "Radioactivity and radiation protection", and on "Passage of particles through matter".


http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/waw/mad/mad19.html

^^^---- Now, if only they had some guys like THIS on that Fox special, there wouldn\'t be so many questions being asked. Of course, Fox\'s ratings probably wouldda gone down the tubes on this one too. : /

BTW: Didn\'t John Swigert from the Apollo 13 mission die of cancer?

Hmmmmm........
Please Bleed.. so I know that you are real.
Please Bleed.. so I know that you can feel the damage that you\'ve done.
What have I become? To myself I am numb. ~ Ben Harper
Plane Crash <-- moe. (Listen to while staring at Heat\'s Avvy.)
PSO Ep I & II~ Tesla: LvL 101 HUmar |Sinue: LvL 32 RAcaseal |Mana: LvL 52 FOnewearl |Malice: LvL 42 RAmarl

Offline clowd
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2187
  • Karma: +10/-0
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2002, 05:35:39 AM »
What about the pictures where a object in the picture was in front one of the x marks on the camera?

The X mark was on the camera lens so there was no way an object in the picture could be behind it.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2002, 01:58:11 PM by clowd »

Offline SonyFan
  • EGA Warrior - Mod
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2775
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2002, 08:02:06 AM »
Uhhh huh. Have you tried looking at those pictures outside of a Fox "conspiracy theory" program? That\'s part of what I was saying in my first post. At the same time those pictures were being shown on Fox, there was a PBS special about the moon landings that I was flipping back and forth between. They didn\'t have the "obscured" crosshairs. Just about everything Fox was showing, was also shown at one time or another on PBS.. and none of the "evidence" matched up.

Unless someone can provide a link to a credible source, I still find it much much easier to believe that Fox doctored the photos to make a griping and entralling show to entertain people and boost ratings, than Nasa faking a Lunar Mission.

Also, consider that the Russians knew full well that we were ready to land on the Moon. It\'s not like it was any big surprise or anything. There is documented communications between Russia and the US over weither or not Apollo 11\'s radio communications would interfer with Russia\'s Luna 15 probe which was already in orbit and preparing to make a remote landing to collect soil samples.
Please Bleed.. so I know that you are real.
Please Bleed.. so I know that you can feel the damage that you\'ve done.
What have I become? To myself I am numb. ~ Ben Harper
Plane Crash <-- moe. (Listen to while staring at Heat\'s Avvy.)
PSO Ep I & II~ Tesla: LvL 101 HUmar |Sinue: LvL 32 RAcaseal |Mana: LvL 52 FOnewearl |Malice: LvL 42 RAmarl

Offline clowd
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2187
  • Karma: +10/-0
Chandra Levy Found!!
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2002, 02:10:50 PM »
Why is there no stars in the pictures-videos?

Why does the flag wave in no wind?

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk