Thread III

That\'s it clowd.  I warned you.

[videoholic]

Intermission











:thepimp: OK, I return you all to your discussion.:thepimp:

Hehe, intermissions are funny.  We need something similar to that every 2 pages.  Videoholic, I now dub you Intermission regulator.  Please see to it that we get plenty of them in these religion threads.

500 MILLION YEAR OLD FOOTPRINTS DISCOVERED

What may be the oldest fossil footprint yet found was discovered in June of 1968 by William J. Meister, an amateur fossil collector.

This print is estimated to be around 300 to 600 MILLION years old

A sandaled shoe crushing a trilobite; is this proof that there were previous civilisations on earth, or visitors from another world?

Meister made this remarkable find during a rock and fossil hunting expedition to Antelope Spring, 43 miles west of Delta, Utah. He was accompanied by his wife and two daughters. The party had already discovered several small fossils of trilobites when Meister split open a two inch thick slab of rock with his hammer and discovered this outstanding print. The rock fell open "like a book", revealing

on one side the footprint of a human with trilobites right in the footprint itself. The other half of the rock slab showed an almost perfect mold of the footprint and fossils. Amazingly the human was wearing a sandal!

Trilobites were small marine invertebrates, the relatives of crabs and shrimps, that flourished for some 320 million years before becoming extinct 280 million years ago. Humans are currently thought to have emerged between 1 and 2 million years ago and to have started wearing well-shaped footwear for no more than a few thousand years.

The sandal that crushed a living trilobite was 10 1/2 inches long and 3 1/2 inches wide; the heel is indented slightly more than the sole, as a human shoe print would be. Meister took the rock to Melvin Cook, a professor of metallurgy at the University of Utah, who advised him to show the specimen to the university geologists. When Meister was unable to find a geologist willking to examine the print, he went to a local newspaper, The Deseret News. Before long, the find recieved national publicity.

On July 20, 1968, the Antelope Spring site was examined by Dr. Clifford Bur****, a consulting geologist from Tuscon, Arizona, who soon found the impression of a child\'s foot in a bed of shale. ``The impression", he said, ``was about six inches in length, with the toes spreading, as if the child had never yet worn shoes, which compress the toes. There does not appear to be much of an arch, and the big toe is not prominent." Dr. Bur**** stated:

The rock chanced to fracture along the front of the toes before the fossil print was found. On a cross section the fabric of the rock stands out in fine laminations, or bedding planes. Where the toes pressed into the soft material, the laminations were bowed downward from the horizontal, indicating a weight that had been pressed into the mud.

In August of 1968 Mr. Dean Bitter, an educator in the Salt Lake City public schools system, claimed to have discovered two more prints of shoes or sandals in the Antelope Spring area. According to professor Cook, no trilobites were injured by these footfalls, but a small trilobite was found near the prints in the same rock, indicating the small sea creature and the sandaled wanderer might have been contemporaries.

What does this prove? Nothing. It is just one of the many discoveries that have led to questions about science\'s take on Human history. Like if there were "human" footprints over 300 million years ago don\'t a lot of evolution\'s theories not hold up?

More examples coming...

FFS Clowd! Shockwaves keeps telling you that EVOLUTION DOESN\'T HAVE TO DO WITH HOW LIFE ORIGINATED!!! He kept on trying to knock it into your thick head and each time you replied with something worthless, "ME NO UNDERSTAND!!!"

I\'m really loosing my patience with you.

That isn\'t true at all. Many people believe in creation, followed by evolution. Evolution only states what happens when animals are already there. It says nothing about how they got there, and isn\'t related to that at all. Evolution can exist with any other theory on how things began, including creation.

[/b]
Your answer:

So your giving up your debate on there not being a intellegent creator?

[/b]
Can you seriously not see your own ignorance and failure in understanding even the simplest of paragraphs?? :evil:

The Bible tells us that God created Adam and Eve just a few thousand years ago, by some fundamentalist interpretations. Science informs us that this is mere fiction and that man is a few million years old, and that civilization just tens of thousands of years old. Could it be, however, that conventional science is just as mistaken as the Bible stories? There is a great deal of archeological evidence that the history of life on earth might be far different than what current geological and anthropological texts tell us. Consider these astonishing finds:

The Grooved Spheres
Over the last few decades, miners in South Africa have  been digging up mysterious metal spheres. Origin unknown, these spheres measure approximately an inch or so in diameter, and some are etched with three parallel grooves running around the equator. Two types of spheres have been found: one is composed of a solid bluish metal with flecks of white; the other is hollowed out and filled with a spongy white substance. The kicker is that the rock in which they where found is Precambrian - and dated to 2.8 billion years old! Who made them and for what purpose is unknown.

The Dropa Stones
In 1938, an archeological expedition led by Dr. Chi Pu Tei  into the Baian-Kara-Ula mountains of China made an astonishing discovery in some caves that had apparently been occupied by some ancient culture. Buried in the dust of ages on the cave floor were hundreds of stone disks. Measuring about nine inches in diameter, each had a circle cut into the center and was etched with a spiral groove, making it look for all the world like some ancient phonograph record some 10,000 to 12,000 years old. The spiral groove, it turns out, is actually composed of tiny hieroglyphics that tell the incredible story of spaceships from some distant world that crash-landed in the mountains. The ships were piloted by people who called themselves the Dropa, and the remains of whose descendents, possibly, were found in the cave.

The Ica Stones
Beginning in the 1930s, the father of Dr. Javier Cabrera, Cultural Anthropologist for Ica, Peru, discovered many hundreds of ceremonial burial stones in the tombs of the ancient Incas. Dr. Cabrera, carrying on his father\'s work, has collected more than 1,100 of these andesite stones, which are estimated to be between 500 and 1,500 years old and have become known collectively as the Ica Stones. The stones bear etchings, many of which are sexually graphic (which was common to the culture), some picture idols and others depict such practices as open- heart surgery and brain transplants. The most astonishing etchings, however, clearly represent dinosaurs - brontosaurs, triceratops (see photo), stegosaurus and pterosaurs. While skeptics consider the Ica Stones a hoax, their authenticity has neither been proved or disproved.

The Antikythera Mechanism
A perplexing artifact was recovered by sponge-divers from a shipwreck in 1900 off the coast of Antikythera, a small island that lies northwest of Crete. The divers brought up from the wreck a great many marble and and bronze statues that had apparently been the ship\'s cargo. Among the findings was a hunk of corroded bronze that contained some kind of mechanism composed of many gears and wheels. Writing on the case indicated that it was made in 80 B.C., and many experts at first thought it was an astrolabe, an astronomer\'s tool. An x-ray of the mechanism, however, revealed it to be far more complex, containing a sophisticated system of differential gears. Gearing of this complexity was not known to exist until 1575! It is still unknown who constructed this amazing instrument 2,000 years ago or how the technology was lost.

CLICK HERE FOR THE PIC

The Baghdad Battery
Today batteries can be found in any grocery, drug, convenience and department store you come across. Well, here\'s a battery that\'s 2,000 years old! Known as the Baghdad Battery, this curiosity was found in the ruins of a Parthian village believed to date back to between 248 B.C. and 226 A.D. The device consists of a 5-1/2-inch high clay vessel inside of which was a copper cylinder held in place by asphalt, and inside of that was an oxidized iron rod. Experts who examined it concluded that the device needed only to be filled with an acid or alkaline liquid to produce an electric charge. It is believed that this ancient battery might have been used for electroplating objects with gold. If so, how was this technology lost... and the battery not rediscovered for another 1,800 years?

The Coso Artifact
While mineral hunting in the mountains of California near Olancha during the winter of 1961, Wallace Lane, Virginia Maxey and Mike Mikesell found a rock, among many others, that they thought was a geode - a good addition for their gem shop. Upon cutting it open, however, Mikesell found an object inside that seemed to be made of white porcelain. In the center was a shaft of shiny metal. Experts estimated that it should have taken about 500,000 years for this fossil- encrusted nodule to form, yet the object inside was obviously of sophisticated human manufacture. Further investigation revealed that the porcelain was surround by a hexagonal casing, and an x-ray revealed a tiny spring at one end. Some who have examined the evidence say it looks very much like a modern-day spark plug. How did it get inside a 500,000-year-old rock?

Ancient Model Aircraft
There are artifacts belonging to ancient Egyptian and Central American cultures  that look amazingly like modern-day aircraft. The Egyptian artifact, found in a tomb at Saqquara, Egypt in 1898, is a six-inch wooden object that strongly resembles a model airplane, with fuselage, wings and tail. Experts believe the object is so aerodynamic that it is actually able to glide. The small object discovered in Central America (shown at right), and estimated to be 1,000 years old, is made of gold and could easily be mistaken for a model of a delta-wing aircraft - or even the Space Shuttle. It even features what looks like a pilot\'s seat.

Giant Stone Balls of Costa Rica
Workmen hacking and burning their way through the dense jungle of Costa Rica to clear an area for banana plantations in the 1930s stumbled upon some incredible objects: dozens of stone balls, many of which were perfectly spherical. They varied in size from as small as a tennis ball to an astonishing 8 feet in diameter and weighing 16 tons! Although the great stone balls are clearly man-made, it is unknown who made them, for what purpose and, most puzzling, how they achieved such spherical precision.

Impossible Fossils
Fossils, as we learned in grade school, appear in rocks that were formed  many thousands of years ago. Yet there are a number of fossils that just don\'t make geological or historical sense. A fossil of a human handprint, for example, was found in limestone estimated to be 110 million years old. What appears to be a fossilized human finger found in the Canadian Arctic also dates back 100 to 110 million years ago. And what appears to be the fossil of a human footprint, possibly wearing a sandal, was found near Delta, Utah in a shale deposit estimated to be 300 million to 600 million years old.

Out-of-Place Metal Objects
Humans were not even around 65 million years ago, never mind people who could  work metal. So then how does science explain semi-ovoid metallic tubes dug out of 65-million-year-old Cretaceous chalk in France? In 1885, a block of coal was broken open to find a metal cube obviously worked by intelligent hands. In 1912, employees at an electric plant broke apart a large chunk of coal out of which fell an iron pot! A nail was found embedded in a sandstone block from the Mesozoic Era. And there are many, many more such anomalies.

What are we to make of these finds? There are several possibilities:

• Intelligent humans date back much, much further than we realize.
• Other intelligent beings and civilizations existed on earth far beyond our recorded history.
• Our dating methods are completely inaccurate, and that stone, coal and fossils form much more rapidly than we now estimate.

In any case, these examples - and there are many more - should prompt any curious and open- minded scientist to reexamine and rethink the true history of life on earth.

BTW, This was taken from About.com

Well looks like Clowd has been "troll a lized" and his post stripped down to 2 or so. Well looks like he\'ll have to start his game over and start levling up again on this forum.  

But then again , admins and mods here are sensible people. If you would just listen to what they ask you to do then all would be well. If you put up a public apology to all and esp. to the admins and mods, maybe they\'ll be kind enough to remove the troll tag and reinstate you with your avatarr and original post count.  Good Luck.

P.S. LOL Vid. Great pic. We need more of those in ...you know...what...shhhhh
Lenny : Hey shuuuut upppppp
LOL

Not likely.  We expect results, not apologies.  Actions speak louder then words.  Besides, he annoys us and it\'s fun giving the morons what for.

Originally posted by Gohan
What are we to make of these finds? There are several possibilities:

• Intelligent humans date back much, much further than we realize.
• Other intelligent beings and civilizations existed on earth far beyond our recorded history.
• Our dating methods are completely inaccurate, and that stone, coal and fossils form much more rapidly than we now estimate.

Here\'s another possibility:  This world was created from the remains of other worlds.  That would explain why there are so many old fossils of Dinosaurs and humans even if you believe that the world is only 6002 years old.

Those are some really interesting discoveries Gohan.  If those objects really were built on this world, it\'s too bad the technology died out or we would be much more technologically advanced today than we are now.

Ryu, did you ban Clowd, or did you just reduce his post count?  If he\'s not banned...

Clowd:

This may be called off the subject, but in order to debate I must know this.

Shockwaves, which do you believe.

I think it\'s funny how you are asking Shockwaves what he believes, when you have ignored our request multiple times to tell us what religion you belong to.  If you really do feel that your religion is true (obviously you do), you shouldn\'t be afraid of telling us what it is, right?

Videoholic, if you want an intermission, just go into the "Hot Babe\'s Thread 2" thread.  There is no need for that in this thread (not to sound pushy or anything, I just think that this thread would be better off staying on topic. :))

well you know what Ryu...you can go...errr go eat some rotten Roma sammiches? YEAH GO EAT SOME YOU *in dubbed voice* stupid melon farmer!!! LOL

He wasn\'t banned.  I just messed with his account a little bit.  The pic was Samewise\'s idea.  

The inspired writers of the bible knew that the earth was a circle, (God is seated above the circle of the earth) and that God hangs it upon nothing which means the earth just floats in space. - Clowd

So you\'re saying that god taught these simple chosen nomads and farmers about advanced astronomy? He is god, so it\'s not like he can\'t impart the understanding upon them.. however.. as it is written he did give the bible to his "chosen" so that they might spread his word. Now these chosen are not god, how could they have possibly been able to explain all this to their followers? That\'s like you going deep into the African congo to some hunter/gatherer tribe and try to explain advanced scientific principals to them. They simply couldn\'t understand, you would be laughed at and disregarded as a fool. (A feeling that shouldn\'t be wholly unfamiliar to you by now) After all, Jesus merely said he was the king of kings, and this father\'s kingdom was greater than all the nations of earth. He was talking about heaven, yet he was crucified by the Romans for hearacy and subversion of the Roman empire. Christ\'s message didn\'t even begin gaining popularity until 200 years AFTER Christ and all his disiples had been hunted down and killed.

Yeah, these people sound like a real open minded bunch.

Gohan - Some of those discoveries are probably hoaxes or mistakes.. and others.. well. Heh, noone ever said our views of societies true age were completely accurate. It was just, what, 10 years ago that the Sphinx of Egypt was found to be some 6,000-10,000 years older than we previously thought. There\'s still quite a bit we need to learn about our world before we can write anything off as "gods doing" or say that mankind is as old as the earth itself. There\'s an example found in Michael Crichton\'s book "Sphere" which I like. It states that what we belive to be Aliens now could just be humans from the future who are observing their past and studying us. Maybe their odd shape is due to *gasp* our future evolution... which is why they\'re often described as humanoid in appearance. If the idea of a multiverse is correct (not saying it is), that allows for a "type" of time travel without all the paradoxs that follow with it. I can jus see it now.. some scientist from the future standing on the shore of an ancient ocean sayin...

"Psst... Bob.. come here. Yeah, come over here. Check this out. *Crushes Trilobyte under his foot* Hah hahahaha That\'s gonna be causeing some people to start scratching their heads in about 500 million years."

Anyhow, if I had a way-back machine, I think I\'d be most interested in checking out the Library of Alexandria. That was, at the time, believed to be the largest and most comprehensive collection of human knowlage on the planet. Alexandria was a city of scholars, and by finding out what was lost there we\'d probably have a much greater understanding of who we are and how we came to be.

Info on the Legend of Alexandrian Library
(Edit: This sort of contradicts my above statement, yet also proves to Clowd that you don\'t need "devine" wisdom to have a basic understanding of how the universe works. This is also evident in the Aztech calander (Mayan?) which was created around the same time if not before the Bible was as I recall.)

As for the Big-Bang, I\'m fairly sure that it\'s been proven with some of the latest pictures from the Hubble Space Telescope. There was an issue of TIME Magazine from I believe July or August of last year that explained how Scientists now think they know how the universe started and how it\'s going to end. The conclusion they came to was that our universe dosen\'t expand and contract like we thought it might have.. it\'s not a repeating loop.. it has a definate begining.. and it will end. Well maybe not end.. but eventually just breakdown into bits and pieces of protons and energy growing farther and farther apart.. dissapating forever. Well anyhow, the one thing we don\'t know about the Big Bang is "How" it started. As Stephen Hawkings explains, we can see back far enough to see it happening.. but not starting.. we don\'t know what came before because we can\'t figure out what happened much before a billionth of a second after it happened.

How the universe may end.

Edit: I did provide the link to the Time Magazine artical because I think it\'s an increadibly interesting read. I\'ll provide others upon request.

Also, if you want to read some silly shyt, visit this page.
Aliens and the Bible?

Of course, since it mentions the word "Bible" in there a few times.. Clowd will probably take it as an absolute truth. :rolleyes:

Oh, and just for f*ck\'s sake, here\'s a link that explains the discoveries in Iraq which ellude to a "biblical" sized flood happening at around 5,200 BC.. around Noah\'s time.Biblical flood?

[nO-One]

ohhh evolution this, abigenowhatever that. Can\'t you all just accept the fact that I created this world and you are all my children



OK, ego trip off.

Anyhoo, to belive in a creator is to me atleast a sign of...hmmm how shall I put it...weakness (probly not the right word). The thought that some god is up there smiling on us and waiting for us when we die. Nothing but fairytales IMHO.

IF...and I say IF there was a creator there would have to be a purpose. I once had the rather grim idea that all this we and all other creatures on this rock were just a giant experiment. Somebody which the primitive us must have mistaken as a god is just studying us. When you think about it any advanced being will appear to be almost godlike to a lesser being.

But that was just an idea

On another note, for those into these type of thoughts I suggest you check out some episodes of Stargate SG1, they ask alot of these questions, there gods are nothing but aliens on an ego trip, so they ask questions like did we create religion or was it all brought upon us etc...

[Titan]

Originally posted by Clowd


This is from the standpoint of a human.  If you were in space looking at the earth,  you would say its the shape of a circle.  Sphere,  circle its basically the same thing.  What shape is a basketball?  I would say its a circle

Do you think Job would say the circle that is slightly flatened at the poles?

EDIT:  Job wasnt in space,  in case you took it that way

Nice avatar clowd. To argue with you, you are an idiot. A sphere and a circle are two entirely different things. A circle is a 2D object. This is a circle ----> :evil:  The smily is a circle. A sphere is a 3D object. Like our earth or your mouseball. I have never heard anyone refer to a basketball as a circle, or even the earth. I always hear globe (earth), or sphere or even heard ball which is a sphere. When you say circle referring to a sphere, you sound like you failed 2nd grade when doing shapes.