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Author Topic: "Jaggies" question  (Read 4375 times)

Offline Zolar
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"Jaggies" question
« on: August 13, 2002, 10:55:31 PM »
First of all, don\'t get me wrong here.  This thread is not bashing the PS2 which I love dearly.  I just want to know the technical reasons why alot of PS2 games, recent ones as well still have jaggies.  I couldn\'t care less, I\'m not a graphics knob gobbler, as I only care for great gameplay.  Thank you gentlemen.

Offline ##RaCeR##
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2002, 11:17:28 PM »
Its something that is very hard to implement. Its not as though the PS2 can\'t do it, its just you need to know how. Its normally software driven, not hardware, whereas XBOX has hardware for aliasing.

I think thats right.

Offline Bobs_Hardware

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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2002, 11:21:21 PM »
Lazy devs.

Heck, most (if not all) XBox games still feature some aliasing too.  It\'s not just PS2 that suffers.

Offline The Daywalker
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2002, 01:54:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Lazy devs.


Thats the same thing that i have been saying for a long time now. 90% of the developers are just too damn lazy to work a bit harder and solve the jaggies issue. To be more specific, today\'s devs practically want everything ready and served on a plate for them... its like "Heck, the hardware doesnt support anti-aliasing?? Screw it, why bother?"

Personally i never had and never will have a problem with jaggies. Jaggies have been a part of PC gaming for more than 6 years now, but when the PS2 came out it suddenly became a HUGE issue out of nowhere...
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Offline mm
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2002, 02:23:48 AM »
racer is correct, the PS2 has to do AA with software
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline seven
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2002, 04:57:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by The Daywalker


Thats the same thing that i have been saying for a long time now. 90% of the developers are just too damn lazy to work a bit harder and solve the jaggies issue. To be more specific, today\'s devs practically want everything ready and served on a plate for them... its like "Heck, the hardware doesnt support anti-aliasing?? Screw it, why bother?"

Personally i never had and never will have a problem with jaggies. Jaggies have been a part of PC gaming for more than 6 years now, but when the PS2 came out it suddenly became a HUGE issue out of nowhere...


wow, spot on. I couldn\'t have said it better.

Quote
racer is correct, the PS2 has to do AA with software


There are different ways of implementing AA in a game. AFAIK the GS can do "edge-aliasing" - It\'s just quite hard to implement and quite performance consuming. Still no excuse though, Sony and many others have developed libraries to help the issue - it\'s just a lazy dev problem as of now. Xbox however suffers from "jaggies" aswell, you just notice it less because most games run at a high resolution with no flickering. DoA3 for example has some very nice aliasing problems here and there - it\'s just less noticable.

Offline Zolar
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2002, 03:23:06 PM »
You can see some of the developers hard work on some games though.  I was totally blown away when I played Balders Gate!  Incredible!

Offline Peltopukki
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2002, 02:23:54 AM »
I belive baldursgate:da used edge-antialias. which is one of the reasons why it did look so good.
btw. edge_aa is easy to put on, but you must render every triangle on scene in order from back to front, which is the reason why devs won\'t use it much.
it is possible to see edge_aa in those start up scenes on ps2.
Against stupidity ..gods themselves.. fight in vain
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Offline Zolar
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2002, 01:00:22 PM »
I can\'t wait to get Ratchet & Clank.  The game looks incredible from the screens I have seen.  I haven\'t seen any videos of it yet.  When is the game being released!:D

Offline Paul
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2002, 08:21:03 PM »
Jaggies wasn\'t an issue with PC coz it runs at hi-res and most cards can do 800x600(or higher) no problem. Coupled when running this on a typical 15" monitor, there is really no issue as u\'ll need to squint ur eyes to see jaggies.

On the PS2, the jaggies(or shall I say "shimmeries") is blantantly obvious due to the low res it\'s running on (640 x 240 interlaced). I can live with the jaggies but it\'s the shimmeries that is really a pain.

Anyway, it\'s really SONY fault for overlooking such a common issue. Although AA can be implemented, it takes severe performance hits..which is probably why very few games(except BG:DA, as far as I know) make use off.

Offline SwifDi
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2002, 09:26:33 PM »
[size=11][glow=blue]Got Jaggies?[/size][/glow]


Offline The Daywalker
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2002, 05:38:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Paul
Jaggies wasn\'t an issue with PC coz it runs at hi-res and most cards can do 800x600(or higher) no problem. Coupled when running this on a typical 15" monitor, there is really no issue as u\'ll need to squint ur eyes to see jaggies.

On the PS2, the jaggies(or shall I say "shimmeries") is blantantly obvious due to the low res it\'s running on (640 x 240 interlaced). I can live with the jaggies but it\'s the shimmeries that is really a pain.

Anyway, it\'s really SONY fault for overlooking such a common issue. Although AA can be implemented, it takes severe performance hits..which is probably why very few games(except BG:DA, as far as I know) make use off.


Seems to me that you havent played enoigh PC games. Even on a 800x600 resolution jaggies can be quite apparent and i didnt have to squirt my eyes to see it so far. I play Jedi knight2 in that resolution actually but i can always see jaggies. Only when i raise it to 1024x768 resolution or higher i can say that my screen is "spotless" but the jaggies effect is always there unless you turn antialiasing on. Then again, i cant do that because my game starts to look like a slide show. :) Only next gen cards like the Radeon 9700 or the NV30 will be able to implement antialiasing without sacrificing performance.

I dont think its Sony\'s fault btw. Antialiasing was hardly implemented in games back in the beggining of 1999 when the PS2 hardware specs were first shown to public. Remember that we are talking about hardware that is about 3 years old. 3 years are like 3 centuries of evolution in the computer industry. I agree though with the shimmeries part, sometime it gets on my nerves.

I still think though that the lack of antialiasing is just because of MANY lazy devs. There are many PS2 games out there that have very little or no jaggies at all on them . But its just as i said. Today\'s devs want everything served and ready for them... always lazy to figure out a solution on their own.
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Offline The Daywalker
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2002, 05:41:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vapor Snake
[size=11][glow=blue]Got Jaggies?[/size][/glow]



You are right Vapor Snake, even HALO has JAGGIES in some parts.
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Offline Bobs_Hardware

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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2002, 06:32:53 AM »
Halo has jaggies all the way through it.  At every mountain or rock you look at you can see them.

It\'s hardly SONY fault tho that developers arent implementing the AA.

Offline mm
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"Jaggies" question
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2002, 06:38:54 AM »
every game will have "jaggies"

i play at 8x FSAA on my PC sometimes, and jaggies are still apparant
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

 

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