9.11.01,Where were you, and what were you doing?

[Cerberus]

Originally posted by ##RaCeR##


I\'m just awaiting the movie...

I think that is inevitable at some point in time.

I\'m surprised so many of you guys from around the world actually felt so strongly about it. I mean, America doesn\'t have a very good image in the eyes of the world.. expecially after 9/11 but before also. That\'s amazing.. most american\'s could care less if our own embassies get bombed as long as they\'re in another country. If downtown London had been hit.. I don\'t think American\'s would have reacted as strongly to it as the as the world has to America being hit.

Hell, some of our own citizens were on PSO later that night after the attacks happened with quick chat symbols showing the planes flying into the towers and big "hooray" symbols.. talking about how it was too cool and spouting BS like "Penta-GONE - LOLOLOLOL". I think that was the worst thing about this tragedy.. is that some people actually enjoyed it and want to see more destruction like this on a global scale.

Granted, most of them didn\'t mean what they were doing.. they were jus trying to do what they always do.. piss people off by any means possible. Still, to even joke about things like the WTC attack, Princess Diana\'s death, earthquakes in Japan, or other world disasters is real testiment to how sick and cold people can be.

Equally sick is how nearly everyone and their brother jumped on the diaster in an effort to make a little cash on others suffering. The commercialization of death and tragedy jus makes me ill. Also disturbing is how apathetic people were to America one minuite, and then all patriotic the next. I hate seeing flags waving from the porch of someone who jus a year ago would rather be seen at a flag burning party than show his support for his homeland or give money to help support veterans and their familys... people who\'ve gone through a hell we can\'t even imagine in the name of that flag.

SONYFAN,

I agree to a certain extent as to what your saying. I think that Americans have been fed a sense of \'invincibility\'.

This has basically proved that alas, they, just like the rest of the world, are not protected against this kind of thing. I think it has also brought allies closer together too, particularly with British American ties.

This brought a tear to my eye.




An aerial view shows that over 5000 people dressed in red white and blue form a human American Flag in tribute to the the victims of the September 11 attacks on America on the beach at Surfers Paradise on the Gold Coast, 40 miles south of Brisbane, Australia Sept 11, 2002.

Exactly RaCeR, do you really think there\'d be public demonstrations like that in America if the Sydney Opera house were attacked tho? What about British Parliment? The Louve in Paris? I can see us showing support and money, but I can\'t see America showing the level of shock and sympathy the rest of the world has shown us. Maybe I\'m a short sighted pessimist, but I think America has been selfish in our hurt.

Now, we\'re using this tragedy to fast track policies and trying to back our allies against a wall on our side with this "war on terror". I love my country, I\'m dissapointed in my gov\'t. I\'ve seen the worlds sympathy returned with selfishness.. and when we don\'t get our way.. we simply throw a fit and do it anyway. Or at least, that\'s the way it\'d be Bush, Ashcroft, and Rumsfeild have their way. We\'re NOT invicible.. and as much as we\'d hate to admit at times.. expecially as full of patriotism as we feel now, but we need the rest of the world as much as the rest of the world needs us.

All I\'m sayin with this rant, is I think we need to listen to our allies and truely work TOGETHER to get this done.. and it pisses me off that with all the support and help we\'ve recieved thus far, that we\'re not more accomodating to those who are trying to help us.

I was waking up in the morning and notice what looked like a skyscraper burning..my first thought was it was a building downtown burning.  Upon becomming more aware..I did notice it was in downtown..just not chicago\'s. I didnt really get much good information so I thought it was some accident with a plane hitting one of the trade towers. Then I turned to either cnn or fox news and saw the 2nd plane crash, then I KNEW what was up.

EVentually they mentioned terrorist acts..but I was simply amazed.

exectly sonyfan

we americans dont care what happens to the rest of the world

its only a tradgedy when it happens on US soil, OR if an american loses a life

Originally posted by mm
exectly sonyfan

we americans dont care what happens to the rest of the world

its only a tradgedy when it happens on US soil, OR if an american loses a life

Thanks mm, for speaking for every single person in the US. How big is that brush you paint with anyway? We are probably the most generous nation on earth when tragedy strikes around the world.

Ace

ONly to attempt in saving face for the god knows what we have down to them in the past. That or as a political move. MM is speaking for a good majority of americans, least thats the way I look at it. Hell most people dont even care what is going on outside of their homes. This is more of a US against them thing tho. Kinda like in school..they divide you up into teams for dodgeball or what have you...you may be on a team with alot you dislike in your class, but you still try your best with them since it is a US against THEM situation.

I know there are problems, I know there have been things done in the past that we are not proud of, I know that we could be doing a lot better, but I  know that I would rather be no where else than this country. I guess I\'m blinded by patriotism.

Ace

Originally posted by SonyFan
Exactly RaCeR, do you really think there\'d be public demonstrations like that in America if the Sydney Opera house were attacked tho? What about British Parliment? The Louve in Paris? I can see us showing support and money, but I can\'t see America showing the level of shock and sympathy the rest of the world has shown us. Maybe I\'m a short sighted pessimist, but I think America has been selfish in our hurt.

Well I for one wouldn\'t miss the Louve or France for that matter...  :rolleyes:

There is also no other place Id rather be(lessar of the evils)now as well..except for maybe my own personal 3-5 mile island on occasion... but like mm said in that other thread. I love this country, I hate most of the people that are involved in running it and enforcing policy both home and abroad.

Originally posted by luckee
There is also no other place Id rather be(lessar of the evils)now as well..except for maybe my own personal 3-5 mile island on occasion... but like mm said in that other thread. I love this country, I hate most of the people that are involved in running it and enforcing policy both home and abroad.

We are a superpower and with it comes responsibility.  The last time we took an isolationist policy (right after World War I), the world had its worst war in history.  I am sorry if people disagree with me, but we have to take a role on the world stage.  I have no sympathy for the Palestinians or the Arab world at this point in time.  Without the West (ie. Europe and the US) they would still be a bunch of nomadic tribes wandering the Arabian peninsula.  The oil that they receive all their wealth from was discovered by the west and the oil fields were built by the west.  Our policies are dictated by what is best for the US and her allies.  They may not be fair, but they are right.

Originally posted by GigaShadow


We are a superpower and with it comes responsibility.  The last time we took an isolationist policy (right after World War I), the world had its worst war in history.  I am sorry if people disagree with me, but we have to take a role on the world stage.  I have no sympathy for the Palestinians or the Arab world at this point in time.  Without the West (ie. Europe and the US) they would still be a bunch of nomadic tribes wandering the Arabian peninsula.  The oil that they receive all their wealth from was discovered by the west and the oil fields were built by the west.  Our policies are dictated by what is best for the US and her allies.  They may not be fair, but they are right.

So by saying that.. say I own 20 guns and have 4 loyal friends and you have 1 gun and 1 other friend. I would be the superpower..so therefore I should have responsibility to patrol in and outside of your home, not allowing you to have certain items, not allowing mail into your home..intercepting your phone calls etc.. just b/c of a negative comment you have said to me in these forums?

Ok..I know I am really,REALLY stretching this, but I think you see my point.

There is a point in time when the US just has to let things play out, there is a time when they need to interfere, there is a time when they need to find a happy medium(like they exist )

Responsibility to do things or not, there are times when the US is simply wrong..no questions asked, and then try to jusify it somehow making things 10 times worse.

As for the palestinines..you should watch and read more about them, it is they i feel sorry for and not the isrealies. They got a bad rap b/c of the things they would do in the wars with isreal. Im sure isreal would have resorted to the same if they didnt have the US funding them BILLIONS of dollars.

On another superpower note...should one of the super powers act against us b/c of some of the things we do? I mean..after all, they are a super power and have responsibilities ya know

Originally posted by luckee



As for the palestinines..you should watch and read more about them, it is they i feel sorry for and not the isrealies. They got a bad rap b/c of the things they would do in the wars with isreal. Im sure isreal would have resorted to the same if they didnt have the US funding them BILLIONS of dollars.

I know all about the Palestinians - I was on the Council for Arab-American Relations back in college - we even met King Hussein of Jordan... but does that justify them killing Israeli civilians?  Terrorism is terrorism.  Don\'t get me wrong I have no love for Israel either, what they are doing by annexing Palestinian territory is in violation of International Law, but by sending suicide bombers in to kill civilians does not help their cause.  As for the billions the US sends... you can thank pro Israeli lobbyists and Jews here in America for that.  It is the same as the Irish Americans sending money to the Sinn Fein - ie. the IRA.  Besides, it is in the interest of the US to support one of the only democracies in the region.  

Now on the flip side, Israel is being sort of hypocritical when it comes to claiming that they are the victims of terrorism.  The state of Israel was founded on terrorism.  It was the Israelis blowing up British troops back in the late 40\'s when it was called Palestine.  As most of you know public opinion at the time was that the Jews deserved a state of their own due to the crimes that were committed against them in World War II.  So not much fuss was made about these terror attacks and Britain finally granted the Israelis what they wanted.  Unfortunately, the Palestinians were left out of the plan and thus we have the situation we do today.

On a side note.  Bin Laden and his bunch don\'t care what happens to the Palestinians.  It is a ploy to gain support in the Arab world.  Hell, the guy is still pissed off about the Moors getting kicked out of Spain.

The last time we took an isolationist policy (right after World War I), the world had its worst war in history. I am sorry if people disagree with me, but we have to take a role on the world stage. - Giga

I agree.. but this gung-ho go-get-em attitude our current administration is displaying is totally out of line. We need to work WITH the world.. not simply jus have them sit back and either nod their heads in approval or dissaproval to what we want to do. We\'ve got it stuck in our heads that might makes right.. and we push the UN around far too much. It was a different story back in the Cold War when we had another superpower vying for the rest of the world\'s support against us. We willfully worked with the world and did things to their satisfaction. Now.. well.. who can challenge us? Why do we need the UN\'s permission? **** em.. lets do it anyhow. What kinda attitude is that for a country who was a founding member of the UN - with the intent to keep countries from doing the very same thing! If we willfully and deliberately attack Iraq without solid proof of wrongdoing or world support.. our actions will be no better than Iraq\'s was when it invaded Kuwait.

I have no sympathy for the Palestinians or the Arab world at this point in time. - Giga

Funny, I have all the sympathy in the world for the Palestinians. I don\'t condone their actions, but I understand why they\'re resorting to them. Look back 200 years in American history and you see Isriel is doing to them exactly what we did to the Native Americans. Do you know what that was? It was a Holocaust. Genocide. I don\'t care whatever some "patriots" wish to call it.. it was the murder of an entire race of people. This is slowly happening to the Palestinians as well as they keep getting pushed and pushed from their land. Of course, they could always just move.. just like the NA\'s could have moved to Canada. However, there comes a time when a man can\'t be pushed anymore.. and he\'s shot because he dared to push back.

Without the West (ie. Europe and the US) they would still be a bunch of nomadic tribes wandering the Arabian peninsula.

Typical western mentality. We\'ve tamed the savages.. look at how great we are. :rolleyes: Did it ever occur to you that these people might have only wanted to STAY nomadic tribes wandering around the Arabian peninsula? They were happy with their lives and their culture. If they want to advance, let them come to us. We don\'t have to force them to join our idea of society.. even if they are only doing so just so they can better fight us.

The oil that they receive all their wealth from was discovered by the west and the oil fields were built by the west.

Here\'s a quick geography tip.. Isriel isn\'t that rich in oil. Sure it has quite a bit.. but not nearly as much as it\'s surrounding neighbors like Iraq, Kuwait, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. We don\'t protect Isriel unilatterally because of their oil.. we protect them because they\'re the only really stable gov\'t in the regieon in which we can place military bases and more efficently exact our control over the regieon. They\'re being our bitches in exchange for our outdated military hardware. The only reason they\'re fighting for a Palesitinan state is so they can have a clear boundry to show the UN exactly where Isriel is pushing into their land and strongarm us into helping them.. like we SHOULD be doing in the first place.

Oh, and by the way. It\'s not the Palestinians who you should be angry at. Out of all the 9/11 hijackers.. not a one of them was Palestinian. Most of them were Saudi\'s, who\'s crown prince Abdullah is supposedly an ally of ours. Also, we didn\'t build a single one of their oil feilds.. since they don\'t even have any. These people.. and their leaders.. are DIRT POOR, not rich dictators/Sheiks like Kadaffe, Saddam, and Abdullah.