I guess we should go invade Isreal too

cant we all just get along

Originally posted by ViVi
I like cheese

With all respect possible..take that childish bullshit elsewhere. This is exactly one of the things ryu said about ppl comming into serious discussions with things liek this. Now if you dont mind, stop that crap.


As for getting back to topic. Im wondering why ppl like to think the isreal is never wrong in any of this since the 40\'s? Just b/c they dont lower themselves to suicide bombings does not wash their hands.

PLain and simple..isreal is wrong yet again, and the US will do nothing about it.

Wooooohooooooooooo cheese for everyone.



I got cheddar, swiss, baby swiss, alpine swiss, longhorn, american, blue, motzeralla, and pepper jack.

ViVi, please stop this. Next time I\'ll just delete it without a warning (but I\'d rather you saved me the trouble by not posting in the first place). Thank you. -Sam

Off topic - I agree with Luckee on this one, we are debating...

Back to the topic...

I never said Israel is always right, but the Pals are not helping their cause.  They continue to instigate and will get nowhere.  If they didn\'t suicide bomb and kill Israeli civilians I can say without a doubt that the rest of the world would come to their aid.  

Take for example the non violent Civil Rights movement in this country and the non violent disobedience in India.  Both achieved their goal.  These suicide bombers solve nothing and they don\'t generate a whole lot of sympathy.  

Luckee please read again what I posted about the Arabs rejecting the resolution establishing both Israel and Palestine.  The Pals had their country, but threw it away.  If I were Israel I wouldn\'t trust the Arabs either.  They refuse to recognize that Israel has a right to exist.  Only Jordan and Egypt have done so and look at the relationship between Israel and those two countries.  It isn\'t bad all things considered.  I could also point out that most Arabs would rather die than make peace with Israel - they assassinated Sadat because he made peace with Israel.  

Two wrongs don\'t make a right and if we had the answer to the question of peace in the middle east I am sure someone much brighter than us would have suggested it by now.

From what I remember, kinda foggy about it, the pals werent happy with the land distribution.

I can\'t see how they were upset the land the Israelis received was 75 percent desert!  They were upset about a Jewish state in Palestine.  If you look at the map you will see that Jerusalem was set up as an international city to provide access to all religions, Islam, Judaism and Christianity.  

Basically I find it hard to sympathize with the Arabs whose sole purpose was to destroy Israel and when they were beaten, they whine about Israel violating UN Resolutions when the Arabs violated the very first one concerning Israels right to exist.  

Both groups (the Pals and the Israelis) have legitimate claim to Palestine and the distribution of the land according to the 1947 UN resolution was according to what land was occupied by the Pals and the Jews at the time.  This was actually a very equitable proposition compared with the problems that occured when India won its independence.

Speaking of this - Our British friends are the ones responsible for the problems in the Middle East in my opinion.  It was the British Empire that decided to grant independence to these countries and made up countries to protect "their" oil interests.  Kuwait never existed until the British drew a line in the sand.  The same goes for Africa...  Without taking into consideration tribal hatreds and religious conflicts Great Britains leaders at the time just divided up the Middle East and Africa.  Decolonization happened just before the US was really recognized as a Super Power.  The destruction of the British Empire (the super power of the colonial era) has caused many problems in their former colonies.  Take a look at India and Pakistan.

So why do we have to single out Isreal from being wrong, so Isreal is wrong and the people surronding them is right?

This is not a case of right and wrong and I think that is what the confusion is here.  Since day 1 Isreal has been under attack, the day the state was formed everyone around them wanted them to fail and to die.  So there is only once course of action, stand up for yourself or die..

I am not saying I agree with their policies, but when you have a gun pointed at you from all directions there is only one thing to do, lash out.  I have no problems with them standing up for themselves and for their state.  I don\'t live there, but I can only imagine what it must be like.  I have had some friends from there and I know from their stories its pretty messed up.  Only some of the things make it to the news.  A lot more goes on then what the International media reports on.  Negative things on both sides of the conflict.

Again, I support Isreal, being in a world where everyone wants you dead is not an easy thing to do.

Im not saying Isreal shouldnt defend themselves nor that the arabs are entirely right in this either. My point point was how the US is so set invading other nations(where they have great intrest) they should distribute its actions evenly.

For any of you intrested, the Biography channel frequently shows the bio\'s of arafat and sharron and shows quit a bit from both points of view. Both countries are pretty equal when it comes to fault ever since day one.

Luckee - I agree with what you say, but with Iraq it is not about an interest in the country - its about getting rid of a psycho.  The world has lived without Iraqi oil for the past 10 years and it hasn\'t been a problem.  The misconception that the US goes in and sets up governments is understandible.  The US has a responsibility to help countries it has defeated.  Afghanistan being the most recent.  What would be worse, trying to help or not help at all?  Some see it as the US seeking to dominate, but I don\'t.  If we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that we could leave Afghanistan and there not be a problem don\'t you think we would?  We remained in Germany after WW2 to help rebuild it and to prevent the USSR from invading Western Europe.  Now that the USSR is no more we have drastically scaled back our presence there.

Panama is a good example.  We got Noriega and left and turned over the canal to Panama.  Unfortunately in this day and age we live in world that is much smaller and as September 11th has shown, even a country that has no proper military or weapons of mass destruction can be dangerous if it is ruled by people who are extremists.  Iraq falls into this category - though it is not governed by religion the way Afghanistan was.  Saddam is just a fruitcake who could care less about religion and focuses more on self gratification.

OK, but even still, plenty of known psycho\'s out there..like the leaders of Syria..etc..etc.. The only active one, that we know about, seems to be Saddem. The world forgot about him till bush brought him back up. Saddem basically likes to make threats, he knows how easily he was wiped out before and knows it will happen again. I dont think he will be as foolish as to try something against the US. Whether he does something to a neighboring country is between those two, for the moment anyway.

Just b/c we have lived without their oil for ten years does not mean we wont after he is gone. Think about it

As for the dummy governments, that isnt a misconception. They could put damn near anyone in power, but they always insert a person who will be their puppets. Just like afghan..now a pipeline is being built..one that was denied as of last year.

WHile Norieaga was doing some foul things back then. I really believe he was just a scape goat in making the US look better durig it\'s "war on drugs"campaign.

Assuming the US continues its holier than thou approach to rooting out terrorism and threats. Who is next after iraq? libya? sudan? lebanon? palestine? syria? BY that point, guess who just became the biggest terrorist.

Libya has actually come a long way since the Pan Am bombing.  Finding the threats has become the problem ever since the Cold War became extinct.  We know we have enemies, the problem is identfiying them and finding them.

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First the 3rd world countries. Then the world. ~G. bush 2002