Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)

Rya:

That\'s true. But we also look up to our grandfathers as well as our fathers. Maybe not as much, but there is still some admiration and respect. Why don\'t Christians do the same? Give some admiration and respect to the god of God?

One big reason is because most Christians don\'t believe our God has a father.  Only us Mormons believe that.  Most Christians believe in only one God who has always existed.

It is only important for us to know of our one God, not his God, or his God\'s God.  God has told us that besides him, there is no one.  I believe that he is telling us to not worry about any other Gods besides him.  He is the only one that is important to us right now.  If we go on worrying about who else is up there, we are losing focus of what is really important.  Maybe when we die we will see how vast this whole "reality" is, but until then, we shouldn\'t worry about it.  If we don\'t live worthy lives, and do the necessary things on this world, we will lose our chance to benefit from God\'s plan anyways.

While typing that, I thought of an example:  You want to stay out late with your friends, but your Dad says you have to be home by 12:00.  You say, but so-and-so\'s Dad lets so-and-so stay out until 1:00.  Then your Dad says something along the lines of, "It does not matter what so-and-so\'s Dad says. I am your father, so just worry about what I say."  I think that God is thinking the same thing.  Do not worry about other God\'s, just worry about what our God has to say.

You mean the part where you mentioned the three kingdoms? You said, "where we can progress and become greater beings." I immediately thought angels, but not gods.

Read just below that: "The highest degree [of the 3 degrees in the Celestial kingdom] is where the people who were baptized into Christ\'s church, who lived a worthy life, and who got married in a temple "for time and all eternity" go. These people, husband and wife, are able to progress from there and eventually become Gods."

But it\'s not important if I had already posted it or not.  All that is important is that yes, us Mormons believe that we can become Gods ourselves.

Some churchs believe that women should be blamed for human damnation though, that they\'re the root of all evil. In history, women were blamed and that\'s why they were subordinated; to keep them from doing more harm to mankind. That\'s why we can see in historical literature and pre-80\'s movies that men saw women as "weak," due to the image of Eve\'s temptation. From what I understand, there hasn\'t been any female pope because women can\'t reach the level of holiness as men.
That was just one example. What about the one who cut off Samson\'s hair? Delilah, was it? She was portrayed pretty badly. And wasn\'t Mary Magdalen (sp?) a prostitute? From what I remember, there are more women evil-doers in the Bible than there are good-doers. The only ones who are good, that I can think of are Esther, Sarah, and of course the Virgin Mary.

You are correct, the scriptures do not mention females very often.  And a lot of the times that they are mentioned, it\'s only because they are the people tempting the males.  But remember that in the scriptures, there are a lot of males mentioned who are huge sinners (even more male sinners are mentioned than the females).

Like you said, for whatever reason, in the past girls have always been considered lesser beings than boys.  When the scriptures were written, these belief was probably pretty common and excepted.  Today though, females are finally gaining the respect that they have always deserved.  It\'s too bad the scriptures were written so long ago, or there might be mention of more righteous females.

I\'ll tell you what though, in response to "there hasn\'t been any female pope because women can\'t reach the level of holiness as men."  That is nonsense.  Righteous Females as a whole are far more holy than righteous men are.

I have a question about this free will topic. Let\'s say that there is a person who lost his faith. He feels there wouldn\'t be a point in going to church anymore when he doesn\'t even believe what is being preached. However, he feels that if he left the church, the other church members (who are his family and friends) will look differently of him, and possibly look down on him. As we know, humans are social creatures. For this guy to loose the friendship he has with the church members would be devistating. So wouldn\'t he be trapped in going to church even if he does have free will?

Going against your family and friends, either by leaving their church, or joining a church they don\'t believe in, can be a very hard thing to do.  But if a person doesn\'t believe in the teachings of that church, then he would have the freedom to choose to either leave the church or stay in it.  All choices come with consequences; Some good, some bad.  Even so, we still have the freedom to choose.

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Clowd:

See, my religion is based on the bible. If its not in the Bible, then we don\'t teach it because it would be the word of men.

But because the Bible has been translated so many times by so many men, how can you be sure it still has the original meaning that it had when it was first written?  And when you teach things that are in the Bible, how do you decide the correct interpretation of some of the more vague verses?  If God isn\'t telling your church how to interpret the scriptures, then it is men who are interpreting it.

I believe God created Jesus, who was the first of all creation. Then through Jesus God created the Universe.

I believe that Jesus was the first born spirit child, and God\'s only begotten son (God\'s only son in a physical body that he is the father of).

As for Jesus having a human body how was he able to walk through walls with a material body?

I could only speculate.  Maybe Christ is in a completely different dimension than we are in, so walls wouldn\'t effect Jesus the same way.  BTW, where in the Bible does Jesus walk through walls? (I don\'t remember reading this.)

If you can believe that a man lived a perfect life, then died for all of our sins, is it so hard to believe that man could also walk through walls?  He was part God after all in his mortal life.

Iron fist in your bible it says the word was God with a capital G? Which translation is this?

King James Version.

Originally posted by shockwaves
And what are those measurements?  The angle of the earth towards the sun is simply a two dimensional measurement.  Time is no different, it just deals with different dimensions.  In any given dimension, an object can move either forward or backward.  There are three dimensions that we can perceive that deal with physical movement (the x, y, and z axes), and an object can move along each indefinitely.  Time is the same way, it is just in a different dimension, and one that is required for you to make any of the measurements I specified.

Sure, you can measure the angle of the earth to the sun, but that is just a measurement.  It says nothing of change.  However, when you start taking different measurements at different times, you see change.  It is like a line, moving through two dimensional space.  If you look at it at only one value, you can take a measurement, but you can\'t see where the line is moving.  If you take multiple measurements, varying the values in both dimensions, you see change.  Time is no different for length or width, or depth.  We just perceive it differently.  Once we figure out how things react in the other three dimensions, with changes in this fourth dimension, we can predict how things will change with respect to time.  That way, we can predict things like the changing of seasons of the rising and setting of the sun, and when they will occur with respect to this value that we have named time.

OK,  where do I start.

First,  space is not flat,  rather it is 3-D.  How do we know this?  Well space is curved because of gravity.  How do we know that?  Well gravity creates a curviture,  like a bowl.  Take a ball bearing for instance.  Drop it in the side of the bowl and what does it do?  It rolls in a circle until it hits the bottom.  OK if you flew a spacecraft by the sun you would get sucked to the center of the bowl like the ball bearing.  The planets are in the 3-D curviture of the sun, or the bowl,  but they where given the right amount of speed to not get sucked into the sun.  OK so we\'ve established that space is 3-D.

I never claimed that space wasn\'t three dimensional.  I simply said that simple angles can always be measured in two dimensions, at a given fixed time.

Originally posted by shockwaves
I never claimed that space wasn\'t three dimensional.  I simply said that simple angles can always be measured in two dimensions, at a given fixed time.

Oh,  I forgot to finish.  Some have theorized (Albert Einstein is one) that time is very distorted in high gravity areas,  why most believe a black hole may send you to the future or past.

Well, that makes sense.  After all, the other dimensions are distorted too, are they not?  The physical dimensions of an object would be completely warped as it was crushed by the black hole, so why would it\'s properties in the fourth dimension not under go similar changes, in theory.  Of course, it is all theory, since I doubt anything could ever come through something like that alive.

Time is no different, it just deals with different dimensions. In any given dimension, an object can move either forward or backward.

Good argument!  Kudos to you!  I concede.  

To IronFist:

God has told us that besides him, there is no one. I believe that he is telling us to not worry about any other Gods besides him.

If God tells us that there is no other gods, then why does he even mention that there are other gods that can be worried over?

While typing that, I thought of an example: You want to stay out late with your friends, but your Dad says you have to be home by 12:00. You say, but so-and-so\'s Dad lets so-and-so stay out until 1:00. Then your Dad says something along the lines of, "It does not matter what so-and-so\'s Dad says. I am your father, so just worry about what I say." I think that God is thinking the same thing. Do not worry about other God\'s, just worry about what our God has to say.

Good example!  But that can be reversed.  A person is at a friend\'s house.  And let\'s say that the two are playing football in the house.  The friend\'s dad walks in and says "If I were your father, I wouldn\'t let you play football in the house."  And then the person says, "but you\'re not my father."

But remember that in the scriptures, there are a lot of males mentioned who are huge sinners (even more male sinners are mentioned than the females).

But, I bet, if you took the time and calculated the ratios of good and bad men or women against the total number of men or women, the women ratio would be way higher leaning towards the bad.

Today though, females are finally gaining the respect that they have always deserved.

Not enough.  Women aren\'t even as equal as men.  How many women are in the Senate?  How many are in the Supreme Court?  How many have been president?  Besides politics, look at how women are mentioned on this forum.  I haven\'t seen a single piece of evidence of respect.  When men can see, speak, and think of women in a respectable manner, then equality is achieved.  Until then, women will keep on fighting.

Righteous Females as a whole are far more holy than righteous men are.

Whoever nabs you for a boyfriend will be very lucky.  So far, you\'re the second guy, that I\'ve seen, who thinks that.

Originally posted by shockwaves


All of it?  Yeah, right.  I suppose when someone kills a man that he finds sleeping with his wife, that would be because of religion.  Blood isn\'t spilt because of religion, it is spilt because of anger.  It just happens that religion is a major cause of anger, at times.

In addition:

Blood is also spilt because people are afraid of being proven wrong.  People are afraid to accept new things and ideas.  Basically, blood is spilt because of fear and death is one way of getting rid of the thing that one fears most.

Originally posted by Clowd


without false religion, yes

All the blood spilt on Earth has been because of religion

NO without religion period...

[Titan]

Originally posted by shockwaves


All of it?  Yeah, right.  I suppose when someone kills a man that he finds sleeping with his wife, that would be because of religion.  Blood isn\'t spilt because of religion, it is spilt because of anger.  It just happens that religion is a major cause of anger, at times.

Religion is the leading cause of war also. Millions die for their "god".

Originally posted by luckee


NO without religion period...

Well, he said false religion.  If you think all religion is false, then that would imply all religion.

And I would guess that at the very base of it all, more wars are started over greed than religion.

[Titan]

WWI and WWII are greed yes. Germans wanted the world. The crusades, the war against terror are two examples of war due to religion.

I don\'t think that either is due to religion.  I think that religion was an excuse for the crusades.  In reality it was about extending the power of the catholic church as a political entity.  The War Against Terror is NOT about religion.  We aren\'t fighting them because of their religion, and they didn\'t attack us because of ours.  They attacked us because of our greedy actions.

You doubt their interpretation of the koran hasnt not fueled their hatred for us? They have even quoted passages in which they twist meanings in some of the video\'s of osama.

Well, he said false religion. If you think all religion is false, then that would imply all religion.

And I would guess that at the very base of it all, more wars are started over greed than religion.

No, I\'m going stick with religion PERIOD.

Originally posted by luckee
You doubt their interpretation of the koran hasnt not fueled their hatred for us? They have even quoted passages in which they twist meanings in some of the video\'s of osama.

Propoganda.