Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)

So who\'s up to it?  Does anyone here want to have a discussion about different religions, and the different beliefs in those religions?  Does anyone want to discuss different verses from the scriptures, and the different interpretations of those verses?  Does anyone want to discuss when/where/by who/why their church got started?  Does anyone want to ask questions about the beliefs in someone else\'s, or even their own religion that they don\'t quite understand?

I understand that most of us are still very limited when it comes to discussing religious things (*cough* me! *cough*), especially compared to many other people out there on the internet.  But I figure that if we don\'t ever challenge ourselves, we will never improve.  If we really do believe in our religion, we should want to be able to defend it against the bigots, and explain it to the millions of people out there who do not understand our beliefs.  Without practice, this is very difficult to do -- especially in person when you don\'t have a chance to go research the answer.  So if you are not able to answer a question, don\'t panic.  Now is your chance to find out the answer.  Just ask around, or do some research until you get the answer (or I guess you could ignore it ).

It would be great to hear from all of you, even the non-believers out there (although I don\'t want this to turn into a "Proof of God vs Proof of Evolution" thread! )  If you have a question about something someone else believes, or a question that you think will stump someone else, ask away.

*note* As far as I know, we haven’t heard from anyone who is a member of a non-Christian church. I would love to hear from you non-Christians out there, because my knowledge of your religions is very limited (almost non-existent).


It will help if you say what religion you belong to (of course, you do not have to).  That way we can know who to ask about certain things.  For those that don\'t know, I\'m a Mormon, AKA LDS, AKA a member of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints."



My first question is about salvation by grace alone VS salvation by grace and works.  Many Christians out there believe that all they have to do is say they believe in Jesus Christ, and they will be saved by Christ\'s grace.  They can be sinners their whole life, then as they are about to die, say they believe in Christ and they will be saved.  If this is true, then how do you interpret the many scriptures in the bible that say just the opposite -- that you need both grace and good works to be saved?  For example, Matthew 7: 22, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

If you have an answer to this question, or a question of your own, or just a comment, feel free to post it.

Oh, and I won\'t feel bad if no one is up for a religious discussion.  If no one is interested, just let this thread drop into the abyss of old threads.

Well, as everyone knows, I am a Christian, and not just one of those dicky ones that goes to church on Christmas day.

I do not classify Christianity as a relgion, more so a way of life. God never intended humans to be bound by laws and traditions, but to have a free will to make their own decisions, otherwise, why would have God given us a will? Gods laws, such as the ten commandments etc are their to protect us. God did not create laws to bind us.

You have interpretted that scripture entirely wrong. Man is not judged by works, but by his heart. God knows we are not perfect, and that we make mistakes. Not everyone has been given the personality/ability to be able to go and preach the gospel on city streets like Jesus did. God has given each and everyone of us gifts that make us unique. I believe as long as we use these gifts to glorify God, then thats all that matters. If you can only lead one person to the Lord in your life, maybe because your shy and timmid, then I believe you are just as high regarded as someone like Billy Graeme etc, who has led thousand to the Lord because thats his calling. Its the way you use you gifts to glorify the Lord that counts.

Well said, Racer.

[videoholic]

First off let me say that I didn\'t read the posts in this thread.

BUt I just have to say that whatever racer said is wrong.  Dinosaurs on the arc...  Heh, who\'d have thunk it.

No one knows why dinosaurs became extinct, but I do believe that the earth was a very different place to the original one before the flood.

In the original world, it is belived there was once a great water vapour cannopy around the earth. "The waters... above the firmament" (GEN 1:7). There was no rainfall on the early earth before the flood, "But a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground". (GEN 2:6).

The great water vapour cannopy inhabited rainfall by mainting worldwide, fairly mild, warm climate with none of the wide temperature changes that cause the necassary conditions for rainfall. There was no rain, and no rainbows.

The change in climate that came after the flood could have killed many animals. We know that many of the dinosaurs lived in far northern countries, because their fossils have been found above the artic circle, and in the Antartic. Greenland, which is now covered in ice, is thought to have once been a subtropical haven much like that of Puerto Rico.

I am not here to argue. I do believe that dinosaurs were on the arc, whether it be by devine intervention of God or not.

Also, many of todays animals have interbred with eachother, creating new species, meaning that some of todays creatures may not have been around 7000 years ago when the flood is thought to have occured.

I would also like to say I didn\'t read most of this thread.  This is my belief though on religion:

Religion is nothing more than glorified superstition.  Religion, in all its forms is nothing more than ignorance, and has only served to hinder our progress, and drive us apart.  The world would be a better place without it, and we would be a better people.

However, at the same time, I don\'t care what others believe.  You have the right to believe what ever you will, and I would never try to force my beliefs on another.

[videoholic]

Hey, Allow me to add.

AHMEN BROTHER!!!!


Heh, I read Shockwaves post.  It rocked!!!

Although I have to disagree on the ignorance comment for there are many smart people who use religion as a way of making themselves feel better about themselves.  Usually it\'s because they are cheating on their wives, drink too much, stole gas, etc..

Religion is a way for people to push their problems on to something unexplainable.  It makes people happy.

Well, everyone is ignorant in certain ways.  This just happens to be one of those ways for some people.  Just because you are ignorant to something doesn\'t mean you are a bad person.  Some of my best friends are religious.

jesus and i love you vid.

You said I interpreted the scripture entirely wrong, but I think you misunderstood the question.  I agree with what you said for the most part (I\'ll comment on a few parts below) and as far as I can see you agree with me.  You didn\'t answer the main question though.  The question is for those who believe in deathbed repentance -- accepting Christ right before you are about to die, and without even an effort to show your love of Christ, you are saved.  Or another example, like you said going to church every Christmas, saying you believe in Christ, and then going home to a sinful life without even a thought of Christ until next year\'s Christmas church session.  Will those people be saved by Jesus Christ\'s grace?  I know many Christians who believe that believing Christ died for their sins is all that is required to be saved, and they can do whatever they want in life as long as they believe in Christ.  I am interested in how they interpret scriptures that state just the opposite, that more than faith is required for salvation.

Another example of scriptures that show work is required is found in James, chapter 2:

17, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
24, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
26, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

It looks pretty obvious to me that works are required from these verses, but obviously all Christians don\'t see eye to eye on this subject.

Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Not everyone has been given the personality/ability to be able to go and preach the gospel on city streets like Jesus did. God has given each and everyone of us gifts that make us unique. I believe as long as we use these gifts to glorify God, then thats all that matters. If you can only lead one person to the Lord in your life, maybe because your shy and timmid, then I believe you are just as high regarded as someone like Billy Graeme etc, who has led thousand to the Lord because thats his calling. Its the way you use you gifts to glorify the Lord that counts.

I agree, God has given each of us different gifts.  But even though not all of us have the same gifts, God does provide a way for each of us to do his will.  This reminds me of a story in the Bible when God asked Moses to preach the gospel.  In exodus 4:

"10 And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.
11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man’s mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
12 Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say."

Moses still was worried, so even after saying that he would help Moses speak, the Lord provided another way for Moses to preach the gospel -- through his brother Aaron.

If we have a desire to serve God, God will provide a way for us to do so.  I have seen this many times as shy people in my church go on missions.  They go out, serve very successful mission, then two years later they return home and are completely different people -- no longer suffering from there shyness.  They are able to listen to the holy spirit, and have a desire to do so.  They want Christ\'s church to be spread throughout the world.  They are blessed because of this.


I want to point out that "works" is not only referring to preaching the gospel.  It is also talking about serving others.  As Christ said in Matthew 25:40, "...Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."  When you are serving your fellow man, you are serving your God.  There are many ways to serve your fellow man, thus, there are many works that can be done.   I agree with you that man is judged by his heart, but the way I see it, if a man loves the Lord, if his heart is in the right place, he will serve him and do works for him.  He will actually have a desire to do works for him!  (<-- No, I\'m not yelling.  I just think it\'s really exciting. )


As for the rest of the posts, I’ll respond tomorrow night.  I have to get at least 6 hours of sleep tonight or tomorrow’s day of work is going to suck.  Goodnight.

God doesnt exist.  When you die, you dont exist.

There\'s my piece disscusion.

To be deadly honest, Mormanism is a form of cult.

If someone is on their deathbed, I think they need to make their peace with God, not just say \'I believe in you\' and then they die. They must trully be repentant of their sins.

Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
To be deadly honest, Mormanism is a form of cult.

Do you mind telling me why?

Ok, I\'m going to bed for reals (I just brushed my teeth ).  I expect an answer to that question when I check the forums tomorrow.  You can\'t say something like that without backing it up.

Well, Ironfist, Mormans do NOT believe that Jesus Christ was the messiah, rather just a man who did good works (again, your religions works theory is in full force).

You keep quoting Bible versus yet you don\'t believe everything in the Bible.

Whats your views on Joseph Smith? What do you believe in, The Bible or The Book of Morman?

I think this sums your RELIGION and my BELIEFS up quite nicely, and you will see why Mormanism is a form of cult.

True Mormans believe man is progressively becoming a god. Mormnas teach that Adams sin in Eden was necassary in order to provide parentage for the spirit Children of God who were ready and waiting for the experience of earth life.

Man is NOT godlike, but sinful and separated from God. Man can only approach God and have a relationship with Him through faith in CHRIST. Man, apart from Christ, is lost (Rom. 5:12-19; 6:23; Eph. 2:1,2)

God is also a material creature who was once a man as we are now men. They say men can finally achieve godhood through works and that there are many gods. Mormans also have new scripture and writings of Joseph Smith which are \'devine revelations\', Gods nineteenth centur additions to the Bible.

God is uniquely eternal and all powerful, the ONLY one God and he is a Spirit (Ps. 145:13; John 4:24; 1 Tim. 1:17)

You also believe that salvation comes by works and all men will spend eternity on some level of a multi storied heaven. The level will be determined by the scope of each mans good works.

Salvation is a free gift provided by the grace of God for all who believe AND accept His plan (Eph. 2:8,9; John 12:26; 14:1-3,6; 1 John 3:1,2)

You are so bound by laws and traditions its not funny.

I\'m a Christian too but I didn\'t go to Church in a long time.   I believe in God.