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Author Topic: The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)  (Read 4573 times)

Offline ben_high
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2002, 11:17:39 PM »
Next thing you know the gov\'t will be trying to read our minds without a warrant.

*ben puts on aluminum foil deflector beanie*

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Offline luckee
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2002, 12:01:00 AM »
ANother intresting turn of the Bush Doctrine, the "Age of American Imperialism," Pax Americana, or the Corporate Oil Conglomerates\' Takeover of the World—whatever we want to call it.


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?107:1:./temp/~c107j11x5F::

To require the induction into the Armed Forces of young men registered under the Military Selective Service Act , and to authorize young women to volunteer, to receive basic military training and education for a period of up to one year.

Also to quote...

October 3, 2002—It\'s called the "Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001." It was introduced by two Republicans in the House on December 20, 2001, and it sits there, waiting until enough people feel that it\'s needed. It\'s what we call, simply, "The Draft." While it waits, it can be read at: http://thomas.loc.gov (search for Universal Military Training and Service Act)

And it is waiting. To think that this act will not be made law, probably within the next 12 months, is to remain completely deaf and blind regarding the Bush Doctrine, the "Age of American Imperialism," Pax Americana, or the Corporate Oil Conglomerates\' Takeover of the World—whatever we want to call it.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/LThomas100302/lthomas100302.html
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Offline mjps21983
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2002, 12:20:44 AM »
Well as I feel the need to put my two cents in, I\'m with giga on some things and for the most part he does have a point telling you Shock that you don\'t back of your shit up with sources or information, we have luckee doing that for you so you need to thank luckee for making you look half right, no offense I just love a good debate, and if I sound like I\'m getting personal I\'m not, so don\'t take offense. Sometimes people read to deep into laws and see them for how unjust they could be, and not for the good of humanity, and trust me if the new law is unconstitutional, I guarantee that you will see it being revoked by the Supreme Court, so Shock worry nothing everything will be ok. We will only go to war with Iraq if for some reason they have nukes or any other type of harmful weapons to us, or rather we sit back and let Hussein build them and just wait for him to use them on us, and then react, wait we already did that and we are two buildings short of a financial center and 2000 less great Americans, forget about that day, I sure the hell haven\'t!!!

Offline Samwise
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2002, 01:53:23 AM »
Omg... LIC and Shockwaves, I agree with your views 10000%.

Note to Giga: You don\'t need to adress my views if you don\'t want to, seeing as how I\'m:

1) Young
2) Not a US citizen

But to the rest of you... this SUCH fuc&ing BS! I mean, I\'m really shocked. How does your national anthem go again? "And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave o\'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!" *cough*

It\'s not about whether or not \'it affects you\'; it\'s the princip of it! This crap is probably just the beginning and it makes me sick. You can now thank that retard GWB and his friends that the US can no longer (if it could at one point) be called \'home of the free\' and \'the land of freedom\'... please.

In theory this means they could arrest anyone for whatever BS reason they see fit and contain them as long as they like - along with \'real\' terrorists of course. But who really would know if it\'s only used on \'real\' terrorists/criminals?. Great stuff - remind me again, what was it the WWII veterans fought for?

It amazes me that ANYONE can justify this for whatever reason. If you do accept this \'for the greater good\' then don\'t EVER tell me that the US is all about freedom and justice, where every man has the right to a fair trial. :rpissed:
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Offline mm
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2002, 03:24:13 AM »
beginning of a policed state?

its already been one for 50 years
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Offline GigaShadow
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2002, 05:37:02 AM »
Going off of what luckee said.  I believe a mandatory 2 year civil service or military service should be reinstated in this country.  Some people truley don\'t know what it is to devote time and energy towards ones own country.  They do this in Europe, why not revive it here?  I think it might help some of these disinfranchised teens grow up a bit.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline GigaShadow
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2002, 05:48:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Samwise
Omg... LIC and Shockwaves, I agree with your views 10000%.

Note to Giga: You don\'t need to adress my views if you don\'t want to, seeing as how I\'m:

1) Young
2) Not a US citizen

But to the rest of you... this SUCH fuc&ing BS! I mean, I\'m really shocked. How does your national anthem go again? "And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave o\'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!" *cough*

It\'s not about whether or not \'it affects you\'; it\'s the princip of it! This crap is probably just the beginning and it makes me sick. You can now thank that retard GWB and his friends that the US can no longer (if it could at one point) be called \'home of the free\' and \'the land of freedom\'... please.

In theory this means they could arrest anyone for whatever BS reason they see fit and contain them as long as they like - along with \'real\' terrorists of course. But who really would know if it\'s only used on \'real\' terrorists/criminals?. Great stuff - remind me again, what was it the WWII veterans fought for?

It amazes me that ANYONE can justify this for whatever reason. If you do accept this \'for the greater good\' then don\'t EVER tell me that the US is all about freedom and justice, where every man has the right to a fair trial. :rpissed:


Samwise, I respect your opinion on this matter, but there is such a thing as too much freedom.  How many murderers in this country slip through the judicial system on technicalities???  Why should people who conspire to kill innocent people in the name of religion be given the same rights as a petty criminal?  

These people are combatants and should be treated as such.  American citizens who conspire with them should be tried on the grounds of treason.  I know it sounds harsh, but as I have stated before - there will not be mass abductions of people.  Most of us probably won\'t know anyone who is effected by this.  My question is to those who think this is such a terrible idea - Should our government do nothing?  Should we just wait for the next attack and be the good freedom loving people that the world takes advantage of us for?

If it were up to me, we should immediately withdraw from the UN, kick them out of NY and see how well they handle things without US support.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline Ace
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2002, 06:33:45 AM »
The world changed on 9/11 and for the US it has changed the way will be doing "business" for a very long time.

I think in unusual times like these there has to be unusual measures taken to secure the safety our citizens . If some of these measures get out of control they will change because this country won\'t stand for it. That\'s why we are the greatest country on this earth.

I for one do not like giving away freedoms, but if it means that we will stop the next horrific display of some Islamic wacko then we might all have to suck it in. As I said though, if this is something that gets out of control amendments will be made. I wonder if GWB did nothing and more buildings were being leveled, or planes continued to drop from the sky, how many of you would be praising the Prez for not erroding our civil liberties.

shockwaves,
 
Did you forget a little thing called Pearl Harbor?
To even compare the dropping of the bombs on Japan to a terrorist letting off a nuke in one of our cities has me sick. We saved thousands of American lives, and that\'s what matters.

Ace
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Offline Samwise
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2002, 06:39:37 AM »
These unusual times? What have changed? There have always been terrorists, it\'s just that recently they hurt the US in a visible place. But come on... it weren\'t exactly rocket science - the damn morons hijacked some planes and crashed them into buildings.

And what is the function of CIA, FBI, Interpol, NSA etc. etc. if not to track down criminals and stop them? I don\'t see exactly why it\'s so \'critical\' to toss away privacy in this so-called war on terrorism.

Hell, any moron can do damage if they want - homeland security bills or not. The only ones to truely suffer from this are the ordinary Americans.
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Offline GigaShadow
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2002, 06:44:56 AM »
Samwise, none of us are suffering from these laws.  As I have asked all who disagree with it (who live in this country) what liberties have they lost???  No one has replied because they their lives haven\'t changed at all.  As for your privacy issue:

TIA Targets Terrorists, Not Privacy
November 22, 2002 |  |

“A supersnoop’s dream,” The Washington Times calls it. It will give government agents “a computerized dossier on your private life,” warns William Safire of The New York Times.

It’s the federal government’s Total Information Awareness (TIA) program, and if it’s not positively Orwellian, say civil libertarians, it’s at least X Files. Worse yet, they argue, the program is being developed by John Poindexter -- the professorial, pipe-smoking Reagan capo convicted (later overturned) of redirecting money to the contras trying to overthrow the communist government of Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua.

If this goes forward, critics ask, will Poindexter and his beady-eyed bureaucrats know what Internet sites I like to frequent? That I’ve maxed out a credit card? That I play the office football pool? That my daughter has asthma?

Shouldn’t I be worried about this?

Actually, only those already identified as terrorists have anything to fear.

What the government seeks to do with TIA is piece together the puzzles of terrorist networks before they launch their attacks. And it wants to do this in such a way -- in fact, Poindexter and his staff spend much of their time on it -- that our privacy and civil liberties are protected to the maximum extent possible.

And they are doing, if not the Lord’s work, the work of the American people, who since Sept. 11, 2001, have called for some systematic way for various intelligence and other fact-gathering agencies to share and analyze information. Poindexter and his staff have gone to great pains to make their deliberations as public as possible. They have described the work of those seeking to launch TIA in symposia around the country, and they even post information on their Web site http://www.darpa.mil/DARPATech2002/presentation.html.

Even if they wanted to, TIA employees simply won’t have time to monitor who plays football pools, who has asthma, who surfs what Web sites or even who deals cocaine or steals cars. They’ll begin with intelligence reports about people already suspected of terrorism, according to Ted Senator, project director of a component of TIA.

Those already identified as terrorists or potential terrorists by the intelligence community then could be monitored through existing public and private databases to build an in-depth portfolio, including contacts and frequent activities, Senator says. These portfolios should enable authorities to determine whom to watch and where to find them when they suspect a terror strike is imminent.

Access to this information should be limited to those with appropriate clearances as well as by need to know, and programmers are hard at work on filters for these purposes. Moreover, the Genisys program, another component of TIA, is being designed to separate identity information from transactions and match up the information “only when we have evidence and legal authority to do so,” officials say.

The key to the program -- both in terms of its effectiveness and its potential to gain acceptance from the millions of Americans who rightly worry about privacy and erosion of civil liberties -- is to limit its use to detecting terrorists and preventing future attacks. That means the FBI, the CIA and the soon-to-be-created Department of Homeland Security intelligence arm.

It does not mean state and local law enforcement or even those who wish to use it for causes such as aviation security and health surveillance -- monitoring for epidemics and biological warfare, etc. Americans must be able to trust that extremely few people will have access to these capabilities and that the punishment for misuse will be severe.

To meet the needs of these other agencies, Poindexter’s group or the Homeland Security Advanced Research Projects Agency (HSARPA) could -- and probably should -- develop limited spin-offs dedicated to specific needs, such as linking city and state health surveillance networks to the Centers for Disease Control or cross-referencing airline passenger manifests with terrorist watch lists.

Americans are right to hold the government to a high standard on this. They are right to expect that officials won’t comb through the records of everything they buy, every time they visit the doctor and so on.

But Americans also understand that technology exists to detect perhaps even entire terrorist cells, to prevent future Sept. 11-scale attacks, and that we’d be foolish not to take advantage of it. The trick, of course, is to strike the right balance between citizens’ expectations of privacy and government’s need to protect those citizens. Poindexter seems on track to do this.

Let’s let him. It seems little enough to prevent another Sept. 11 -- or worse.

Michael Scardaville is a policy analyst in the Davis Institute for International Studies at The Heritage Foundation (http://www.heritage.org), a Washington-based public policy research institute.

So you see its not a lets spy on Joe Public and see if he looks at gay porn on his computer.  This is a case of the liberal left overreacting.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline Bobs_Hardware

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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2002, 06:45:48 AM »
Quote
We saved thousands of American lives, and that\'s what matters.


How many innocent Japanese lives were lost?

Then again, my knowledge on the subject isn\'t what it should be.  Perhaps they were asking for it.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2002, 06:48:02 AM by Bobs_Hardware »

Offline Samwise
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2002, 06:53:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Americans must be able to trust that extremely few people will have access to these capabilities and that the punishment for misuse will be severe.
And herein lies the answer. Do and can the Americans trust that they\'ll only do what they say they\'ll do? I won\'t debate that intensively, because frankly, I don\'t have the answer. But I worry. Hopefully my worries are pointless.
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Offline GigaShadow
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2002, 06:59:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware


How many innocent Japanese lives were lost?

Then again, my knowledge on the subject isn\'t what it should be.  Perhaps they were asking for it.


Really, this argument is making me sick as Ace stated.  What are they teaching in schools now a days?  The Japanese attacked us!!!!  They were asked to surrender before the first A bomb was dropped - THEY REFUSED.  They were asked to surrender yet again after the first one was dropped - AGAIN THEY REFUSED.  

Do you know that the Japanese were preparing to defend Japan its self by arming women and children with spears to attack GI\'s when they hit the beaches?  They were going to make a fight to the death.  Not only did the 2 atomic bombs save American lives, but they also saveds many Japanese lives.  

How many innocent people died at Pearl Harbor???  I suggest you take a trip to Pearl Harbor itself and visit the Arizona Memorial.  When you look at it IN PERSON - think of the 1000 plus sailors that are still entombed in it.  

Sorry if this comes across as hostile, but these revisionist accusations that we were wrong in ending World War 2 with the atomic bomb are really insulting.  Not just to me, but to the people who actually served in World War 2.  To me that truly is the greatest generation.  They served their country without hesitation.  It was their sacrifice that allow you to have what you do today.  Your cars, your PS2s, your computers, your standard of living.  I wonder how many today would actually answer the call if the need arose.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline GigaShadow
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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2002, 07:02:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Samwise
And herein lies the answer. Do and can the Americans trust that they\'ll only do what they say they\'ll do? I won\'t debate that intensively, because frankly, I don\'t have the answer. But I worry. Hopefully my worries are pointless.


I agree Samwise, it is a spectre that will loom over this entire process.  We have no choice though, sit and wait for another attack or try and weed out the terrorist before they strike.  My vote is for the latter.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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[/size]One Big Ass Mistake America

Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline Bobs_Hardware

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The begining of the New World Order or a Police State?(long read)
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2002, 07:06:14 AM »
I was just curious as to the reasoning behind it.  I wasn\'t being sarcastic when I said my knowledge on the subject isn\'t what it should be.  :)

 

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