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Author Topic: Looks like the war is on...not sure  (Read 1934 times)

Offline GigaShadow
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Looks like the war is on...not sure
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2003, 06:57:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ace
Lets pray for our troops and our allies. The Iraqi troops are on their own. No one wants to see civilians die, that\'s pretty much a given. You know sure as hell that we will do our best to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. I cannot say the same for our enemy.

Some of the Iraqi people are getting a little more vocal about us coming in to there country. They are now waiting for the Americans to come in and liberate them from the grip of Saddam.

Lets also pray that the our land will be safe from terrorists attacks. This is my biggest worry. We will win in Iraq but we are always going to be vulnerable to terrorism.

Ace


I agree, the Iraqi troops are on their own when it comes to "prayers".  This is war and as Americans you shouldn\'t have the luxury to straddle the fence.  This war will effect every American and to "pray" for (let alone praise) enemy troops is sickening.

If you really do feel for the enemy troops you are either - 1)anti American or 2) really detached from your own citizenship.

I try not to think in such black and white terms on things, but with war involving your own country you can\'t sit in the middle.  These are times when regardless of how you feel about the President and the war itself, you must support the "home" team.
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Offline bradleyscott
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Looks like the war is on...not sure
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2003, 11:01:26 AM »
Okay, I\'m with Shockey in the fact that I have been avoiding this forum for a while.  I check in from time to time to read, but have decided to keep my views to myself.

Although I understand why people are against war for any reason, I must say I disagree.  I think, if the US has any sense, that we will prevail and we will do it as best we can without many casualties to the Citizens of Iraq.  I know some are going to happen and I feel regret over that, but something has to be done.  I feel that Iraq has been hiding arms, the scuds shot just yesterday are proof of that, and if they do have Biological warfare available to them, then the entire world, not just America, is in harms way.  If any of those things get out of hand, we could be looking at a widespread global destruction through airbourne viruses.  This is not a laughing matter nor is it "Cool".  I believe they are going to go in and take the objective of getting rid of the regime.  Then piecing Iraq back together with a democracy where the people can and will have rights to vote and live life to the fullest.

If there is any other objective behind this, then I seriously hope those things are brought to the forefront and taken care of immediatly.  I believe the Bush administration won\'t do more than what they have described.  If they do, the entire world is watching and I do not want to see what would happen in the unlikely event that we take things too far.

As far as the French and the rest of the world who are against us... that is their opinion.  Though people up top may say that this will seriously hurt future relations, I still believe that if one of those countries that despise us were to get into trouble, we would be there to help them out.  I also believe that if something were to deriously cripple the US that they would return the favor as well.  I know people in here have stated that they "Hate the French"  I am sorry to see that.  Yes, they helped us train for fighting against the British, but they didn\'t have to.  No, helping us train did not win or lose the war for us, but the biggest boost came when the French Navy occupied the waters in the Atlantic Ocean allowing us to trp the British in between the American Colonists and the French.  They were pinned in at that point and therefore they were unable to break free to win.  Had they not been there, we may have still won, but it would\'ve taken much longer than it did, or quite possibly Tony Blair could very well be our Supreme leader at this very moment.... or for that matter maybe one of Hitler\'s relatives.

Now, We retruned the favor in WWII and freed the french from the German occupation.  We did a job and helped out our allies.  We would do it again if we had to.  That is just the way we are.  I still believe regardless of what the french think of us, we are still going to be there for them, and I believe that if the occasion ever were to arise they would be there for us in time of major crises.

I guess what it comes down to is, people have their opinions.  I believe that Bush is correct and I believe that we are doing what needs to be done.  I hope that I am on the side that is right and based on very well recorded intelligence.  If we happen to be wrong, I hate to see what could possibly hppen.  This is not a game and there is no resetting the system and restarting the game.

I hope that once this is over that we rebuild Iraq and hand over the government back to the Iraqi people and we leave them in better overall shape then they ever were.  No matter what the cost to our country.

Brad
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Offline luckee
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2003, 11:06:02 AM »
Giga...The Iraqi soldiers are still humans as well. Some are there for what they truely believe in, for which I can respect no matter how evil it is. It is more than alot of ppl are willing to do. They are willing to die for their beliefs. That takes a very strong person.

Some are there b/c they have been brainwashed and I feel sorry for them, yet they are still humans.

Then you have some that are forced to be involved even if they dont want to. I feel sorry for them as well since they cant just up and tell saddem no. Those are probably the ones surrendering..alas, they are still humans.
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Offline Ace
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Looks like the war is on...not sure
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2003, 11:08:39 AM »
There are some reports that these countries are saying one thing in public to satisfy there population and something very different to the administration. So when you hear this country says we should stop, take it with a grain of salt.

By the way, Brad and shockwaves, you guys should post here more often. It might raise the blood pressure a bit, though.

Ace
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Offline bradleyscott
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Looks like the war is on...not sure
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2003, 11:14:02 AM »
I only post when I feel I need to speak my peace.  I will only post a well thought out post and not something based on anger or nonsense.  I like to have fun and poke fun at everything and anything, and probably will laugh at this war many months after it is over, but right now while the fate of so many is at stake and while the Iraqi citizens are going through somethign I hope to God I never have to see on my home soil, I will stay very serious and tactful in my views.

For the most part though, I don\'t like to argue my points just to argue my points.  But thank you for your thoughts.

Brad
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Offline SirMystiq

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Looks like the war is on...not sure
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2003, 12:59:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow


I agree, the Iraqi troops are on their own when it comes to "prayers".  This is war and as Americans you shouldn\'t have the luxury to straddle the fence.  This war will effect every American and to "pray" for (let alone praise) enemy troops is sickening.

If you really do feel for the enemy troops you are either - 1)anti American or 2) really detached from your own citizenship.

I try not to think in such black and white terms on things, but with war involving your own country you can\'t sit in the middle.  These are times when regardless of how you feel about the President and the war itself, you must support the "home" team.



I feel for the enemy troops.I feel for the U.S. troops.

What does that make me?
Don\'t try to confuse me with what you call  facts, my mind is already made up.

Offline shockwaves
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« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2003, 01:06:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
I agree, the Iraqi troops are on their own when it comes to "prayers".  This is war and as Americans you shouldn\'t have the luxury to straddle the fence.  This war will effect every American and to "pray" for (let alone praise) enemy troops is sickening.

If you really do feel for the enemy troops you are either - 1)anti American or 2) really detached from your own citizenship.

I try not to think in such black and white terms on things, but with war involving your own country you can\'t sit in the middle.  These are times when regardless of how you feel about the President and the war itself, you must support the "home" team.


My thoughts and prayers are with whoever is in such a dire situation in this conflict.  Remember what things in Iraq are like.  Many of them might be ignorant to the situation in other nations or to the purpose of the war.  They may have just been told that what they are doing is right, and thus they are doing it.  Some may be in the army by force, and are only doing what they have to do to survive.  Some might just truly think they are fighting for a good cause.  Whatever their reason is, they are doing something admirable in fighting and putting their lives on the line, no matter what the reason.  

So yes, my prayers are with the soldiers on both sides.  I am not asking for the Iraqi soldiers to be successful in killing Americans.  I\'m asking that they survive this war.  I just would like as few people to die in this war as possible.  Is that so horrible?  I\'m not saying I want them to win the war, I\'m just saying that I don\'t wish death on them.  If that\'s unamerican than I don\'t want to be American by your definition.

As for sitting in the middle, my personal views are not in the middle at all.  I am very much against the war, and will continue to protest it.  However, I do make a distinction.  I\'m anti war.  I\'m against the politicians that put us in this situation.  I am not anti soldier.  I can\'t begin to tell you how much I respect the American troops over there in the middle east, even if I may not agree with the cause they fight for.
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2003, 01:23:47 PM »
We aren\'t going to have this debate again.  Personally, I have no clue as to why any anti war person would still think war was avoidable.  He wasn\'t supposed to have SCUDs but he does.  I am sure in the next few days more weapons that he "doesn\'t" have will surface.  

The only Iraqi\'s I feel sorry for are those that don\'t want to fight, but have been too scared to do anything about it short of this invasion.  So a blanket statement that is sending prayers out to Iraqi soldiers is offensive to me.  

Also the only "politician/dictator" that put us in this situation is Saddam.  All he had to do was get rid of some weapons and this never would have happened.  I don\'t take your convictions as a personal affront shockwaves and it doesn\'t diminish your validity in this forum from my viewpoint.  Just as Core hates to see the conservative rhetoric posted here, I hate the exact opposite, which is why I have not replied to every post that I felt like replying to.

My view on the Iraqi troop situation is better them than us and being realistic, casualties are going to happen on both sides - I hope you understand where I am coming from when I say this.  After the war is over I hope a better life awaits every Iraqi who has suffered under that tyrant.

SirMystiq, your **** Bush statements haven\'t earned you any points.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2003, 01:26:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by luckee
Giga...The Iraqi soldiers are still humans as well. Some are there for what they truely believe in, for which I can respect no matter how evil it is. It is more than alot of ppl are willing to do. They are willing to die for their beliefs. That takes a very strong person.

Some are there b/c they have been brainwashed and I feel sorry for them, yet they are still humans.

Then you have some that are forced to be involved even if they dont want to. I feel sorry for them as well since they cant just up and tell saddem no. Those are probably the ones surrendering..alas, they are still humans.


So basically a fanatical Nazi in say the SS Totenkopf would earn your respect because he would be fighting for what he believed in?  Iraqi\'s aren\'t evil, but Saddam and family (ie. his sons) are.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline shockwaves
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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2003, 01:28:38 PM »
If you don\'t want to have this conversation, don\'t.  I feel this war was more than avoidable, I feel we were the agressor, I feel that Bush, not Saddam, is responsible for this war, but I\'m not here to argue that.  I simply don\'t want any more people dead than necessary.  If that is offensive to you, then oh well.  It\'s what I feel.
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2003, 01:32:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by shockwaves
If you don\'t want to have this conversation, don\'t.  I feel this war was more than avoidable, I feel we were the agressor, I feel that Bush, not Saddam, is responsible for this war, but I\'m not here to argue that.  I simply don\'t want any more people dead than necessary.  If that is offensive to you, then oh well.  It\'s what I feel.


Its ok to be wrong ;)
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Offline shockwaves
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2003, 01:34:44 PM »
It\'s good to see you accepting that Giga.  It\'s healthy.  Afterall, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.  Now say it with me.  "I am Gigashadow, and I\'m a frequently wrong conservative."  There, now don\'t you feel better? :)
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2003, 01:36:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by shockwaves
It\'s good to see you accepting that Giga.  It\'s healthy.  Afterall, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.  Now say it with me.  "I am Gigashadow, and I\'m a frequently wrong conservative."  There, now don\'t you feel better? :)


Ahh you are in a good mood, your Workers of the World Party Membership Card must have arrived today.  :rolleyes:
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline mjps21983
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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2003, 01:36:14 PM »
I feel sorry for the Iraqi troops that are brainwashed and do not believe in the cause that they are fighting for. Now for the Hussein loyalists I have no sympathy for they fully support him then they too deserve the fate that as their leader. Death is not a great thing nor do I support it, but who  here doesn\'t agree that Iraq wouldn\'t be better off without Saddam Hussein?

Offline shockwaves
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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2003, 01:42:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow


Ahh you are in a good mood, your Workers of the World Party Membership Card must have arrived today.  :rolleyes:


I\'m a Green, thank you very much :)
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