Those of you who love to complain about France should read this

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by clips
that sums up the israleli/palestinian war perfectly...

No it doesn\'t! Then again....that\'s your opinion.

[clips]

Originally posted by GmanJoe
No it doesn\'t! Then again....that\'s your opinion.

i\'d comment on that,..but i really can\'t since i don\'t have that much knowledge of the history between the two countries to really speak on it...to be fair tho giga actually put forth to me a very informed & detailed history of the two countries and it was actually very well informed...

the conclusion i came to was that the palestinians did own their land..went to war with israel & lost..and ever since then have been trying to get their lost land back...in a nutshell..correct me if i\'m wrong...

Originally posted by Coredweller
So to your way of thinking, the Arabs will endlessly kill Jews, and the Jews should endlessly kill Arabs?  Can\'t change an Arab, so what point is there?  Let\'s just keep pouring weapons into Israel and see what happens.... ?

BOTH SIDES have thrown away opportunities at peace, not just the arabs.  I agree there are many arabs who would like to overrun Israel.  There is also an conservative orthodox group in Israel that hates arabs and would very much like to wipe them out as well.  

Making points like "It\'s their own fault" and "They made their bed now they can sleep in it" are useless statements.  They don\'t solve the problem.  Some day someone is going to have to step up and take a rational action to end this nonsense.  Someone is going to have to concede something to resolve it.  I agree that we can\'t count on the Palestinians to do that.  They don\'t have the leadership and administrative structure to make it stick.  That means the Israelis have to do it.  Even if it\'s not fair, or it makes them look weak, THEY HAVE TO DO IT.

The Israelis can\'t afford to take that chance - the Arabs outnumber them 5 to 1 if not more and it wouldn\'t take long for a good attack to completely overrun Israel.  Why do you think almost everyone who lives there is part of the armed forces and carries their automatic rifle even when in civilian dress?  

I think if more governments like Egypts and Jordans were in place Israel might be a little more trusting.  As of now with Syria and Iran preaching Israel has no right to exist I don\'t see Israel chaning their stance - I can\'t blame them.

Originally posted by clips

the conclusion i came to was that the palestinians did own their land..went to war with israel & lost..and ever since then have been trying to get their lost land back...in a nutshell..correct me if i\'m wrong...

You are pretty much right.  Other Arab countries like Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon are to blame as well.  They promised the PALS that they would remove the Jewish state and told them to evacuate right before they attacked.  Most left and when all was said and done they didn\'t have a home to go back to.

Some countries have recognized Israels right to exist such as Jordan and Egypt - in return, Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt which was very strategic due to the Suez Canal being in the proximity of it.  

Now states like Syria, Iraq previous to Saddam being removed and Iran have resorted to other methods like sponsoring terrorism by either providing direct aid (Syria) or rewarding acts of terrorism (Iraq) against Israel.

I just don\'t see how Core can say Israel should be the grownup here when it is not Israel that is causing the problems.  Though I don\'t agree with them building settlements in the West Bank, I think the overall Arab attitude toward Israel is the main hurdle blocking any lasting peace in the Middle East.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
I am waiting for Israel to launch a pre emptive strike on Iran\'s nuclear development facilities in the very near future.

Iran Tests Missile Capable of Hitting Israel

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040811/wl_nm/iran_missile_test_dc_12

" Iran said on Wednesday it carried out a successful field test of the latest version of its Shahab-3 medium-range ballistic missile, which defense experts say can reach Israel or U.S. bases in the Gulf."
[...]
"If Israel behaves like a lunatic and attacks the Iranian nation\'s interests, we will come down on their heads like a mallet and break their bones," the ISNA students news agency quoted Revolutionary Guards Commander Yahya Rahim Safavi as saying on Wednesday.

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by clips
i\'d comment on that,..but i really can\'t since i don\'t have that much knowledge of the history between the two countries to really speak on it...to be fair tho giga actually put forth to me a very informed & detailed history of the two countries and it was actually very well informed...

the conclusion i came to was that the palestinians did own their land..went to war with israel & lost..and ever since then have been trying to get their lost land back...in a nutshell..correct me if i\'m wrong...

The Israelites occupied that land long before anyone. They were taken away by the Babylonians and later the Egyptians. Many were able to make it back to Israel. Then the Romans took over. After the fall of the Roman empire, Israel had no army to defend them when it was occupied by the Muslims (Palestinians today).

Now, in 1947, Israel was formed for the 3rd time. This was mentioned in the Bible\'s Apocalypse. Yeah....one of the signs has been fulfilled. Anyway, Israelites, with the help of England, formed its current state.

[Titan]

The funny thing is, England promised, under one treaty, to give Israel to the Israelis. Then under another treaty, they promised it to the Arabs.

The French govenment must think the Germans are cooking up something again so they are trying to get on our good side

I for one dont like the fact we support Isreal so much. Sure, nobody is playing nicely but Israel is playing dirty. We give them tons of money and completely ignore our advice. Such as the wall they built. Then (according to sailors) they attacked one of our ships hoping to attack another country. I forgot the story but thats ****ed up.

And I really hope they keep fighting till I die, cuz I dont want the apocalypse to happen in my lifetime....

"If Israel behaves like a lunatic and attacks the Iranian nation\'s interests, we will come down on their heads like a mallet and break their bones,"

What kind of dumbass would say that?  I didn\'t know Iran lets 5th graders hold such high positions in the military.

It probably sounds more respectable in arabic.  

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by THX
What kind of dumbass would say that?  I didn\'t know Iran lets 5th graders hold such high positions in the military.

But Israel can reach them if they wanted to. Iran (Iraq would have gotten it eventually but....well, you know what happened) having the nuclear weapon would definitely use that to muscle Israel into some kind of BS treaty.

[Titan]

Doesn\'t Israel have nukes? I heard somewhere they did but I\'m not sure if its true. Can someone clear that up for me?

Yes, they do...

A big reason why their dumbass neighbors don\'t attack them...

Originally posted by Titan
Doesn\'t Israel have nukes? I heard somewhere they did but I\'m not sure if its true. Can someone clear that up for me?

Yes, which they tried to keep secret. But they were made public thanks to this man.


Mordechai Vanunu

Israel refuses to let weapons inspectors into its country (unlike Iran).

IIRC, Israel is the only country which has threatened to use nuclear weapons on its neighbours if attacked.

Some countries are allowed to make threats it seems and get accepted.