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Author Topic: Team USA Basketball Current Events Style  (Read 993 times)

Offline GigaShadow
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Team USA Basketball Current Events Style
« on: August 27, 2004, 11:44:34 AM »
This is a very long read - I don\'t expect many to read the entire thing, but it is a very good article and consider Team USA lost to Argentina today it is even more relevant.  Found it on espn.com and thought it raised a lot of good points.

THE HATERS CAN\'T HANDLE THE TRUTH

By Jason Whitlock

I must\'ve missed the memo -- the memo that went out to the red-blooded American sports public and explains exactly when it became OK to throw patriotism out the window and openly root against a U.S. Olympic team.

Yeah, I didn\'t get that memo. I\'m wondering what was in it. Did it mention Allen Iverson by name? Did it have stipulations about the number of tattoos acceptable on an Olympian? Was there a cornrows clause? Or was the memo just straight and to the point?
 
What\'s the real reason why so many people are rooting against Iverson and co.?
Americans do not have to support a group of black American millionaires in any endeavor. Despite the hypocritical, rabid patriotism displayed immediately after 9/11, it\'s perfectly suitable for Americans to despise Team USA Basketball, Allen Iverson and all the other tattooed NBA players representing our country. Yes, these athletes are no more spoiled, whiny and rich than the golfers who fearlessly represent us in the Ryder Cup, but at least Tiger Woods has the good sense not to wear cornrows.

The memo must\'ve read something like that. That\'s the only explanation for the near-universal hatred of our Olympic basketball team. Oh, you can hide behind a bunch of other excuses. You don\'t like the NBA style of play (which I don\'t). You\'re rooting for the underdogs. Shaq and Kidd and K.G. declined an invitation. The selection committee picked the wrong team.

There are a million excuses, some of which might legitimize a teeny bit of hostility toward USA Basketball. But there\'s no reasonable justification for the out-and-out hatred of Larry Brown\'s squad. There\'s no reasonable justification for the sheer delight that many red-blooded, patriotic Americans are taking from the USA\'s struggles.

In a poll on Page 2\'s Daily Quickie on Monday, 54.1 percent of the approximately 20,000 respondents said they wanted to see the USA team lose, and another 19.9 percent said they "kind of" would like to see it lose. I\'ve sat on my radio show the past two weeks and listened to alleged patriot after patriot bitch about and shred Team USA and openly admit they want the team to lose. One guy, who identified himself as a former member of the American military, said he hates Team USA because the team doesn\'t "represent the America he fell in love with." I asked him to describe the America he fell in love with, and he said, "it was a country you could walk the streets without worrying about being mugged."

So there once was a time when a man or woman could walk the streets without worrying about a wild gang of NBA players whacking them over the head with a bottle and taking their wallet or purse? That must\'ve been a glorious time, because you can hardly go anywhere these days without looking over your shoulder wondering whether Tim Duncan or Stephon Marbury is stalking you. I know it\'s dangerous to make too much of the sentiments expressed by talk-radio callers. But they speak for somebody. Monday evening I wore my Team USA jersey to the Rams-Chiefs game. As I walked to the stadium, people laughed at me and my jersey and several people made disparaging comments about our basketball team.

If this team doesn\'t win the gold medal (they beat Spain Thursday to advance to the semifinals), I half expect Americans to spit on Iverson, Duncan, LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony at the airport. We haven\'t fielded a team this unpopular at home since Johnson and Nixon sent Team USA into Vietnam.

This is ridiculous, and it hints at a much larger issue.
Someone call Johnnie Cochran and have him send over "The Card" -- the race one.

This team is being discussed unfairly in the media and being treated unfairly by American sports fans. There\'s a lot of convenient denial going on. No one wants to deal with the truth because they\'re having too much fun blasting a bunch of black millionaires for being lazy, unpatriotic and stupid. With the exception of adding the word "millionaires," this is a very familiar tune.

It\'s just more denial. The truth -- and what needs to be discussed -- is that African-American basketball players no longer have a lock on the game. The rest of the world has caught up, at warp speed. The game has been exported and redefined in superior fashion.

Europeans like Dirk Nowitzki are playing a new brand of basketball -- very successfully.
Go ask the folks up in Canada what the Soviets did to the game of hockey. Don Cherry can tell you all about the Red Army team whipping Canadian and NHL fanny on bigger rinks with faster, more creative skaters. It was 1972, and Team Canada -- the best Canadian-born NHL players formed into a Dream Team -- took on the Soviet Union team, which had pretty much dominated international play since 1954. It was called the Summit Series -- eight games between the world\'s two hockey powers.

The Soviets won the first game 7-3 and led the series 3-1-1 before the Canadians rallied to win the last three games -- all by one goal -- to win the series. Paul Henderson scored a goal with 34 seconds to play in Game 8, or the series would\'ve ended in a tie. One of the reasons Team Canada eventually prevailed is that the bigger, stronger Canadians began to resort to cheap shots and thuggery on the ice. Several Canadian players later admitted they were embarrassed by what they had to do to sneak past the quicker Soviets. A Canadian newspaperman had to eat his entire newspaper because he\'d promised to do it if Phil Esposito, Stan Mikita, Ken Dryden and Co. lost a single game in the series.

Canadians invented hockey in the late 1800s, and once dominated it the way African-Americans dominate basketball. Eastern Europeans reinvented the game and made up nearly 70 years of hockey experience on the Canadians in just two decades.

Sound anything like what we\'re witnessing on the basketball court?

Eastern Europeans introduced finesse, speed and creative passing to hockey. No longer could you just dump the puck into the zone and maul the guy in the corner. You had to play the game. The Canadians weren\'t stupid and lazy. They were just slow to adjust to a new, superior brand of hockey.


"Back then, we thought our way was the only way to play hockey; and we found out it wasn\'t," American Ken Morrow, one of the heroes on the 1980 Miracle on Ice Olympic team, told me Wednesday. "The NBA is kind of going through that right now. Hockey went through it in the 1970s and \'80s. The NBA should look at what we went through and learn from it."

Morrow, the current director of pro scouting for the New York Islanders, played 10 years in the NHL. He vividly remembers the 1972 Summit Series.

"You talk to people in Canada, and they\'ll tell you the Summit Series was like a national emergency," Morrow said. "It really shook the heart and soul of the Canadians."

The similarities between hockey and basketball and the impact that international play is having on the games is indisputable. The high rounds of the NHL draft now favor European players. The NHL in the 1970s celebrated the Philadelphia Flyers\' Broad Street Bullies approach, which included beating people up. The game was played at a slow, boring, defensive pace. Does that sound anything like today\'s NBA?

"The skill portion of the game [hockey] is viewed as being superior by the Europeans," Morrow said. "But when it comes to character and heart and competing, it\'s still the Canadians and the American players. Just look at the top scorers in the NHL the last few years -- seven or eight out of 10 are European."

Doesn\'t that sound like Dirk Nowitzki vs. Ben Wallace?

The international style of basketball play is superior to the American game, particularly the NBA game. The wide lane, shorter 3-pointer and prevalence of zone defenses limit the effectiveness of the NBA\'s two-man game. You can\'t have three guys stand on one side of the court and talk to Spike Lee while your two best players go two-on-two on the other side. It\'s boring, and it doesn\'t work in international play.

It\'s also foolish and arrogant to believe that we can throw a team together that can take on the world in two or three weeks. We can\'t do it. Even if we had Shaq and Kidd and K.G., our team would need time to prepare. We obviously need role players.  
Would Michael Phelps have been this excited about the Olympics if he was making millions as a professional swimmer?
What bothers me most are the charges that Iverson and Co. aren\'t trying and don\'t care. First and foremost, they do care and they are trying. They\'re competitors. They know what\'s at stake. They don\'t want to be ripped at home.


CONTINUED
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2004, 11:45:37 AM »
CONTINUED

But do they care about the Olympics the way Michael Phelps does? No. And we shouldn\'t expect them to. American basketball players don\'t spend their childhoods dreaming about playing in the Olympics. Their goal is the NBA. For swimmers and track athletes and gymnasts, on the other hand, the Olympics is the pinnacle.

If there was a professional swimming league that would make Phelps filthy rich, I guarantee he\'d dream of making that league more than he dreamt of making the Olympic team. Phelps might even turn down a spot on the Olympic team, if it interfered with his professional swimming offseason.
Once every four years, Phelps and Carly Patterson and Justin Gatlin get an opportunity to strike it rich. They go all out. Don\'t romanticize it. They\'re chasing money -- endorsement opportunities -- just like the NBA players. Phelps, Patterson and Gatlin might be more cooperative and gracious with the media during the Olympics because they only have to deal with us once every four years. We don\'t know how they\'d react if they were forced to talk to us every day almost year round.

The criticism of USA Basketball is borderline racist, is definitely unsophisticated and exposes a lot of super patriots as hypocrites. Allen Iverson is wearing our jersey -- our red, white and blue -- and playing the game the way we taught him to play it.

We owe Iverson support when he\'s representing us abroad. Save the hatred for when he\'s back home skipping Sixers practices and boring us to death playing a two-man game with Glenn Robinson.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline Black Samurai
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2004, 11:48:47 AM »
I just finished reading this over at Page2. I definately agree with a lot of what he is saying. I don\'t know if I would say it is racist but it definately irks me that so many people actually WANT Team USA to lose.
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2004, 11:55:24 AM »
Same here - after all its not like they "had" to go and play for our country - they are millionaires.  I do think he makes a good point in that some people didn\'t want them to win because of the image they portrayed - which is really a shame.

Great article IMO - I think everyone should read it.
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Offline ROL Jamas
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2004, 01:50:55 PM »
I would give this article a lot more credibility had Ralph Wiley been alive to write it. Jason Whitlock is a hack compared to Ralph Wiley.

That being said, he makes an interesting point -- though you\'ll have to point out to me how many white guys were on the 2000 and 1996 teams. I found myself not rooting for this team because they play a selfish brand of basketball. It\'s the same reason as to why I rooted for the Pistons over the Lakers -- they played a better, team oriented game, and beat a team that was much more talented than themselves.

The United States team, on the other hand, can\'t get away from their "Me First" attitudes, and you see a lot of real bad lookin\' shots from guys who shouldn\'t be taking them. I have nothing against some of these guys, but there are other guys on this team that, frankly, are playing like they expect the win to be handed to them on merit only. Now, over the course of the Olympics, I will admit that they\'ve gotten better, but if this game against Argentina was any indication of the improvement, they still have a lot of work to do.

See Yuz.
What do Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Matt Clement, and Carlos Zambrano have in common?

They\'re the pieces to the next great pitching rotation of our time, what else?

GO CUBS!

Offline QuDDus
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2004, 05:50:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ROL Jamas
I would give this article a lot more credibility had Ralph Wiley been alive to write it. Jason Whitlock is a hack compared to Ralph Wiley.

That being said, he makes an interesting point -- though you\'ll have to point out to me how many white guys were on the 2000 and 1996 teams. I found myself not rooting for this team because they play a selfish brand of basketball. It\'s the same reason as to why I rooted for the Pistons over the Lakers -- they played a better, team oriented game, and beat a team that was much more talented than themselves.

The United States team, on the other hand, can\'t get away from their "Me First" attitudes, and you see a lot of real bad lookin\' shots from guys who shouldn\'t be taking them. I have nothing against some of these guys, but there are other guys on this team that, frankly, are playing like they expect the win to be handed to them on merit only. Now, over the course of the Olympics, I will admit that they\'ve gotten better, but if this game against Argentina was any indication of the improvement, they still have a lot of work to do.

See Yuz.


Interesting read

Until Dirk leads a team to the nba finals I won\'t jump all over the international bandwagon. And it\'s sad when you hear guys like Dick Vitale say that the U.S. is second to international players when it comes to hoops Man you put are best guys out on the floor and we would kill those guys. This was not our best team. And we only get two weeks to practice which is a joke the NBA really needs to find away to get these guys ready before then.

I mean if the nba is just going to throw some guys together they better have the best nba talent out there. Kobe,shaq,tracey,garnette, and Carter all have be on the roster if they just wanna throw guys on a team and expect them to win.
Or at least get better guys that fit together.  If they could have gotten Ray Allen, Artest, Redd, Jermaine O\'Neal, Baron Davis, and Ben Wallace we would have had a much better team.

And jamas how are our guys selfish? I mean explain this? Who\'s selfish. I mean this team has no periemeter shooters on it. Stoudemire and boozer don\'t guard good off the pick and roll. Although boozer played a hell of lot better than stoudemire. Duncan can\'t stay out of foul trouble. Need better one on defenders. Guys who can chase these guys around and guard the three.
I mean if maurbary had not put up 31points in there last game they would have lost.

Where the hell is lebron and anthony? I mean why isn\'t larry using them more. I forgot anythony was even on the team. Someone had to remind me that we had omeka. Should have replaced them with Ray allen, artest, and O\'neal.

Jamas who is selfish? Who should leading team usa? I know what we should do let boozer take more shots. Or how about just give the ball to wade he had 2 points but I know with 20 more shots he could have got atleast 20.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2004, 05:53:45 AM by QuDDus »
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Offline ROL Jamas
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2004, 05:58:41 AM »
How soon you forget that Larry Brown would never play a young player if he doesn\'t have to. You\'re a pistons fan, and you saw how Darko never got any playing time whatsoever. The exact same thing is happening to LeBron, Carmello, and Emeka.

Whose being selfish? Culprit #1 is Allen Iverson. It\'s one thing to go over there to Greece, and I\'m glad that he did. But, when you skip practices over there, get smoked by Italy early, then miss ANOTHER practice, to me, that\'s selfish. It\'s one thing to not go to the Olympics, but it\'s an entirely other kind of selfish when you go, and let down your fellow teammates like that. What kind of an example IS that to the young guns, especially impressionable guys like LeBron and Carmello who have been watching the superstars ever since they were in their Elementary years?

How about Richard Jefferson? The man isn\'t even the best player on a mediocre team (was the 3rd best player on it before Kenyon Martin left), but before the Exhibition games even start in Greece, he has a Jet, owned by the New Jersey Nets, to come over to Greece, simply so he can sign his 76 million dollar contract with the Nets? Please.

Again, there are guys on this team who I actually do like (Tim Duncan, Lamar Odom), but there are other guys on this team that have some serious maturing to do, and others that really just didn\'t belong in the first place.

Then again, you can\'t teach a group of "Me First" guys the "All for one and one for all" attitude in a span of 2 1/2 months.

That answer your question, Qud?

See Yuz.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2004, 06:01:35 AM by ROL Jamas »
What do Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Matt Clement, and Carlos Zambrano have in common?

They\'re the pieces to the next great pitching rotation of our time, what else?

GO CUBS!

Offline QuDDus
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2004, 06:06:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ROL Jamas
How soon you forget that Larry Brown would never play a young player if he doesn\'t have to. You\'re a pistons fan, and you saw how Darko never got any playing time whatsoever. The exact same thing is happening to LeBron, Carmello, and Emeka.

Whose being selfish? Culprit #1 is Allen Iverson. It\'s one thing to go over there to Greece, and I\'m glad that he did. But, when you skip practices over there, get smoked by Italy early, then miss ANOTHER practice, to me, that\'s selfish. It\'s one thing to not go to the Olympics, but it\'s an entirely other kind of selfish when you go, and let down your fellow teammates like that. What kind of an example IS that to the young guns, especially impressionable guys like LeBron and Carmello who have been watching the superstars ever since they were in their Elementary years?

How about Richard Jefferson? The man isn\'t even the best player on a mediocre team (was the 3rd best player on it before Kenyon Martin left), but before the Exhibition games even start in Greece, he has a Jet, owned by the New Jersey Nets, to come over to Greece, simply so he can sign his 76 million dollar contract with the Nets? Please.

Again, there are guys on this team who I actually do like (Tim Duncan, Lamar Odom), but there are other guys on this team that have some serious maturing to do, and others that really just didn\'t belong in the first place.

Then again, you can\'t teach a group of "Me First" guys the "All for one and one for all" attitude in a span of 2 1/2 months.

That answer your question, Qud?

See Yuz.


Yes it\'s a lot better when you explain why you feel a certain way than just throwing it out that with no reason as to why.

I agree on richard jefferson I never liked the guy and don\'t know why he is there. Iverson well I like iverson. Well I don\'t know why he missed practice and he should have been there no doubt. But when it\'s times to go out on the court he gives his all and you can\'t say he doesn\'t.

Who are you calling me first?????????????? Allen Iverson and maurbary?????????????? I don\'t get who you are talking about. I mean who should be scoring on this team that hasen\'t???????????? I mean duncan can\'t stay in the game. Larry won\'t give the rookies any decent amount of playing time. So who are these guys that should be taking over the game. I mean I have not seen marion/boozer, lamar odom wide open waiting on the ball. Or slashing to the basket getting open or spotting up for jumpers because that is not there game.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2004, 01:01:55 PM by QuDDus »
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Offline Black Samurai
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2004, 02:33:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ROL Jamas
How soon you forget that Larry Brown would never play a young player if he doesn\'t have to. You\'re a pistons fan, and you saw how Darko never got any playing time whatsoever. The exact same thing is happening to LeBron, Carmello, and Emeka.
That was there biggest mistake IMO. Lebron should have been playing A LOT. This kid is a passing savant. You see how much those internation players kick the ball around. When Lebron was in the game the US team played better and for Larry Brown to not see this is inexcusable.
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Offline shockwaves
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2004, 03:50:59 PM »
To point to race as the reason people have been rooting against the US basketball team is stupid.  The 1996 dream team didn\'t have any of these sorts of problems, and Stockton was the only white guy on that team.  Penny, Shaq, Barkley, Pippen, Miller, Payton, Malone, Robinson, Hakeem, Hill...all black last I checked.  Plus last time I checked, coach Lenny Wilkens wasn\'t white either.  But everyone was rooting for this team.

The first thing that made people resent the team was how we underachieved at the World Championships in 2002.  We came in what, 6th?  We had the most talented team there.  People know that the US team has the most talent, so they figure that the team is underachieving by losing so much, and more importantly, that it\'s because the players aren\'t playing hard.  That they were taking for granted that they would easily win, and thus let down their country.  A lot of people felt bitter about our finish there, and that bitterness carried over to this year\'s team.

After that, there was the long drawn out drama of who would play for the team.  Player after player turned it down, or accepted then pulled out later.  People just got sick of it, and even though the players on the team now accepted, it made people bitter that so many people wouldn\'t represent our country and that this wasn\'t our best team.

Most importantly though, it\'s the way this team has played.  Watch any of its games and it\'s clear, we are playing as 12 individuals against a solid team from another country.  This was never a team.  It was a group put together with the most recognizable names.  The wrong people were picked, and they never played nearly as well as the other teams.  They slacked on defense, they didn\'t have energy, they played stupidly.  That is why a part of me didn\'t mind them losing.  The other teams wanted it more, and with the way they were playing, deserved it more.

So basically, it could be any number of things.  Rooting for the underdog, rooting for the team that plays harder, rooting for the team that plays the right way, rooting for the team to lose so maybe more people accept invitations next time, whatever.  There were tons of reasons, and race I doubt is a main one at all.
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Offline Bobs_Hardware

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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2004, 04:52:12 PM »
Perhaps they would like the team to lose so that the team could learn? And by team, I don\'t just mean those guys on the court. :)

Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2004, 04:42:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by shockwaves
To point to race as the reason people have been rooting against the US basketball team is stupid.  The 1996 dream team didn\'t have any of these sorts of problems, and Stockton was the only white guy on that team.  Penny, Shaq, Barkley, Pippen, Miller, Payton, Malone, Robinson, Hakeem, Hill...all black last I checked.  Plus last time I checked, coach Lenny Wilkens wasn\'t white either.  But everyone was rooting for this team.

The first thing that made people resent the team was how we underachieved at the World Championships in 2002.  We came in what, 6th?  We had the most talented team there.  People know that the US team has the most talent, so they figure that the team is underachieving by losing so much, and more importantly, that it\'s because the players aren\'t playing hard.  That they were taking for granted that they would easily win, and thus let down their country.  A lot of people felt bitter about our finish there, and that bitterness carried over to this year\'s team.

After that, there was the long drawn out drama of who would play for the team.  Player after player turned it down, or accepted then pulled out later.  People just got sick of it, and even though the players on the team now accepted, it made people bitter that so many people wouldn\'t represent our country and that this wasn\'t our best team.

Most importantly though, it\'s the way this team has played.  Watch any of its games and it\'s clear, we are playing as 12 individuals against a solid team from another country.  This was never a team.  It was a group put together with the most recognizable names.  The wrong people were picked, and they never played nearly as well as the other teams.  They slacked on defense, they didn\'t have energy, they played stupidly.  That is why a part of me didn\'t mind them losing.  The other teams wanted it more, and with the way they were playing, deserved it more.

So basically, it could be any number of things.  Rooting for the underdog, rooting for the team that plays harder, rooting for the team that plays the right way, rooting for the team to lose so maybe more people accept invitations next time, whatever.  There were tons of reasons, and race I doubt is a main one at all.


This team was so different from the 1992 Dream Team - Shaq was a household name and no one had cornrows.  I could point out more superficial differences, but I think everyone knows there is a huge image difference between the two teams.  

I think the author of the article has a very valid point.  After watching an interview with Iverson (after reading this article as well) I think the author is really on to something with his assertion that some were rooting against this team because it was too "ghetto".  Lame reason all the same, but I can easily see it happening.
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Offline shockwaves
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« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2004, 11:40:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
This team was so different from the 1992 Dream Team - Shaq was a household name and no one had cornrows.  I could point out more superficial differences, but I think everyone knows there is a huge image difference between the two teams.  

I think the author of the article has a very valid point.  After watching an interview with Iverson (after reading this article as well) I think the author is really on to something with his assertion that some were rooting against this team because it was too "ghetto".  Lame reason all the same, but I can easily see it happening.


First of all, 1996 Dream Team, not 1992 :)  But honestly, The funny thing about all this was that if this is true, and people rooted against this team because they thought people like Iverson wouldn\'t represent the country well, then they were totally misguided.  Iverson was probably the best representative of our country on the entire team.  Here\'s an interesting read on that.  Still, it\'s not like people on the 96 team didn\'t give off that same sort of attitude that people you would use racist reasons to root against the US would harp on.  What about Barkley?  Either way, I think there were much more common reasons for rooting against the US than race.  I also hate how much race is over emphasized as a reason for everything in sports.  It\'s like when people tried to argue that race was the reason people hated Barry Bonds.
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2004, 12:08:43 PM »
Heh I was typing so fast I missed that one (Shaq 1996) - good correction.  Anyway, I do think race has a lot to play in sports which isn\'t publicized.  I know in hockey black players in the NHL get taunted relentlessly by white players.  

I think if someone did an informal survey without telling those who are surveyed what they were looking for you would see that it does happen.  Take two teams with identical talent from two ficticious places, but make one team all one color and the other team all of the opposite color and see who they cheer for - based on their own race.

I think you would find for the most part that people would cheer along racial lines with some exceptions - worst of all I doubt most of them would be aware that it was racism.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2004, 12:11:50 PM by GigaShadow »
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Team USA Basketball Current Events Style
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2004, 01:05:12 PM »
Well, I know that personally, with teams around the NBA with no relation to New York, that doesn\'t follow for me.  For example, I like the Denver Nuggets a lot more than the Dallas Mavericks or Utah Jazz.

Once again, it could be a reason, but I really think that to call it the main reason is to over look much more obvious reasons
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