Are you ready for some football??? da sticky

Originally posted by QuDDus
I think shocky and james have just run out of things to argue.

I am the biggest pats and brady hater their is. And I for one and impressed with how their team has been able to hold up with all those injuries and still be on top. It\'s amazing.

Even without there top players I would still pick them to come out on top and that is something you can\'t argue.

Once Roethlisberger looses and starts having bad games then shocky and james will jump onto something else.

Kobe Bryant sucks, and Detroit is a shithole of a town. Err, I didn\'t say that.

Also interesting how you can spell Roethlisberger, yet you can\'t spell "loses". Just thought I\'d throw that in there, since I am of course running out of things to argue about

I\'m not saying the Pats are a bad team...just that some of the comments that have come from Hurricane seem to give off the impression that nobody in the AFC can even come close to touching them, which would most certainly be saying something due to the fact that the AFC has at least 3 teams that could beat anyone on any given Sunday in the NFC.

I\'d also like to add that I usually don\'t post here much, except when I\'m provoked to, which is usually by a comment that gets under my skin enough to get me revved. Quddus, you\'re pretty good at it. Congratulations.

See Yuz.

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by The Hurricane
That is why I have zero respect for anything you say.

We\'ll see. Redskins defense is nothing to laugh at. However, their offense is. But Ramsey still sorta just got started. If his receivers don\'t drop any passess, they could pull an upset.

Originally posted by GmanJoe
We\'ll see. Redskins defense is nothing to laugh at. However, their offense is. But Ramsey still sorta just got started. If his receivers don\'t drop any passess, they could pull an upset.

I would still pick the eagles with Detmer running the show.

The BSG

People keep asking me why I have a grudge against Peyton Manning. Not true. I just feel like we make a mistake -- not just the media, but fans, too -- of placing too much emphasis on statistics and not enough emphasis on actual success. Certain superstars have a knack for coming through when it doesn\'t matter: guys like Karl Malone, A-Rod, Bonds, C-Webb, Manning, even Donovan McNabb. I would rather see us celebrating the players and teams that come through when it matters.

To me, the best example of this argument was always "Emmitt vs. Barry." Whenever people argued that Barry Sanders was better than Emmitt Smith, my head would practically explode. So you\'d rather have the guy who gets tackled behind the line of scrimmage eight out of 10 times, then breaks off a 40-yard run, over the guy who rushes for five yards a pop, keeps moving those chains and gets stronger as the game goes along? You really think the Cowboys were winning those Super Bowls because of Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin? Emmitt was the heart and soul of those teams. I loved watching Barry Sanders, and he\'s in the Pantheon for "Guys You Should Never Bet Against," but for one game with my life on the line ... sorry, I\'m taking Emmitt. No contest.

Anyway, here\'s the bottom line: Manning and the Colts had a chance to beat the Patriots three times over the past 13 months ... and they couldn\'t do it. After Week 8, they were 4-3 and everyone was saying "same old Colts." They barely held off the Moss-less Vikings at home on a Monday night, then exploded for 182 points against Houston, Chicago, Detroit and Tennessee (four subpar teams by all accounts). Now we\'re supposed to think they can beat Pittsburgh and New England in January -- on the road, in back-to-back games -- just because they\'ve been rolling up the score against crummy teams? Please.

Couldn\'t have said it better myself.

Good article Sammy, nice post.

Since Peyton Manning is on a mission to become this era\'s Dan Marino (you know, that guy who threw for an ungodly amount of passing yards and TD\'s, but never won the big one), I say we should applaud his efforts. The bottom line is, he\'s performing well enough to get mention on all of the TV shows and articles to fill their sports sections and 22 1/2 minutes of Football Discussion. The Bottom line is, if it doesn\'t get done in the playoffs, who the hell cares?

Peyton Manning could very well become the ultimate time filler, just like Mr. Marino was back in the 80\'s.

See Yuz.

[CHIZZY]

in other news, I get to go to the Bills-Browns game. Very different previews on this one. USA today\'s guy is giving the Browns 11.5 points, but Peter King is calling for 19-16 Bills win it. We\'ll see. Should be fun regardless.

People keep asking me why I have a grudge against Peyton Manning. Not true. I just feel like we make a mistake -- not just the media, but fans, too -- of placing too much emphasis on statistics and not enough emphasis on actual success. Certain superstars have a knack for coming through when it doesn\'t matter: guys like Karl Malone, A-Rod, Bonds, C-Webb, Manning, even Donovan McNabb. I would rather see us celebrating the players and teams that come through when it matters.

To me, the best example of this argument was always "Emmitt vs. Barry." Whenever people argued that Barry Sanders was better than Emmitt Smith, my head would practically explode. So you\'d rather have the guy who gets tackled behind the line of scrimmage eight out of 10 times, then breaks off a 40-yard run, over the guy who rushes for five yards a pop, keeps moving those chains and gets stronger as the game goes along? You really think the Cowboys were winning those Super Bowls because of Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin? Emmitt was the heart and soul of those teams. I loved watching Barry Sanders, and he\'s in the Pantheon for "Guys You Should Never Bet Against," but for one game with my life on the line ... sorry, I\'m taking Emmitt. No contest.

Anyway, here\'s the bottom line: Manning and the Colts had a chance to beat the Patriots three times over the past 13 months ... and they couldn\'t do it. After Week 8, they were 4-3 and everyone was saying "same old Colts." They barely held off the Moss-less Vikings at home on a Monday night, then exploded for 182 points against Houston, Chicago, Detroit and Tennessee (four subpar teams by all accounts). Now we\'re supposed to think they can beat Pittsburgh and New England in January -- on the road, in back-to-back games -- just because they\'ve been rolling up the score against crummy teams? Please.

Originally posted by Black Samurai
Couldn\'t have said it better myself.

Just because the colts failed to make it to Superbowl or whatever does not take away the fact that Payton is a great QB.

A lot of great players have never won a championship. If a guy is performing at the top of his game every single week. Then thats pretty damn awesome.

To say the guy is overrated and all that other  BS is just silly. I mean what payton is doing is awesome. Rather he wins a superbowl or not he still had an amazing season. He still is an amazing QB. I mean you can\'t name on other guy in the league that is doing what he is doing. If people can\'t see how great that is then that pretty sad.

Originally posted by Black Samurai
 People keep asking me why I have a grudge against Peyton Manning. Not true. I just feel like we make a mistake -- not just the media, but fans, too -- of placing too much emphasis on statistics and not enough emphasis on actual success. Certain superstars have a knack for coming through when it doesn\'t matter: guys like Karl Malone, A-Rod, Bonds, C-Webb, Manning, even Donovan McNabb. I would rather see us celebrating the players and teams that come through when it matters.

When I look at a player, I don\'t look at statistics.  If I just looked at stats, I wouldn\'t have made all the arguements against Kobe I\'ve made, or the arguement that Owens, not Manning, is the MVP.  I think the biggest measure of greatness is not just what you do yourself, but what your presence does to the rest of your team.  This is why I have argued that McNabb is overrated...because without him, the team has been just as successful.  When I watch Manning, I see him distribute the ball like no one else.  He gets everyone involved in the game.  There is no other QB in the league right now that would make Stokley and Wayne such dangerous WR\'s, who are each on pace for about 1200 yards and 12 TD\'s.  He gets the entire offense involved like no one else.  However, football is a game where you can play on only one side of the ball.  This is where I seperate him from Marino.  Marino did have some good defenses behind him and still couldn\'t get it done.  We\'ll see how Manning does this year and in the future.

To me, the best example of this argument was always "Emmitt vs. Barry." Whenever people argued that Barry Sanders was better than Emmitt Smith, my head would practically explode. So you\'d rather have the guy who gets tackled behind the line of scrimmage eight out of 10 times, then breaks off a 40-yard run, over the guy who rushes for five yards a pop, keeps moving those chains and gets stronger as the game goes along? You really think the Cowboys were winning those Super Bowls because of Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin? Emmitt was the heart and soul of those teams. I loved watching Barry Sanders, and he\'s in the Pantheon for "Guys You Should Never Bet Against," but for one game with my life on the line ... sorry, I\'m taking Emmitt. No contest.

Misrepresentation of the players much?  During his entire career, Emmitt averaged 5 yards per carry only one season.  Barry did that 5 times, and averaged 6 yards per carry once.  He was also much more of a receiving threat during his career.  He fumbled less often, and played behind a MUCH worse offensive line, with a much worse passing attack to take attention away from him.  Emmitt\'s best seasons were Troy\'s best, and that\'s no coincidence.  Barry had no 6 time pro bowler to take attention from him.  In fact, of Barry\'s 10 season, only in 2 of them did the Lions have the same starting QB for all 16 games.  Of course, let\'s not ignore the fact that in his 10 years, Barry was a 10 time probowler, which Emmitt was an 8 time pro bowler in his now 15 year career.  As for the idea of Emmitt compliling more first downs, I defy you to find that stat for me.  And as far as the Super Bowls, having a top ranked D doesn\'t hurt either.

Anyway, here\'s the bottom line: Manning and the Colts had a chance to beat the Patriots three times over the past 13 months ... and they couldn\'t do it. After Week 8, they were 4-3 and everyone was saying "same old Colts." They barely held off the Moss-less Vikings at home on a Monday night, then exploded for 182 points against Houston, Chicago, Detroit and Tennessee (four subpar teams by all accounts). Now we\'re supposed to think they can beat Pittsburgh and New England in January -- on the road, in back-to-back games -- just because they\'ve been rolling up the score against crummy teams? Please.

Those teams are far from average defensively.  Chicago is clearly a defensive team, for example.  And he still put those stats up against them.  We\'ll see what happens in the future, but I am saying this is not the same team right now that the Pats BARELY beat 3 times in the last 2 years.

We must remember that BS is a NE fan and will take any chance to take a shot at anyone other than his beloved Patriots . The Bills if they win out have a nice shot at getting to the playoffs, woot. And Peyton w/ no championship or not is one of the greatest qb\'s to play the game talent wise and mentally wise.

Originally posted by mjps21983
And Peyton w/ no championship or not is one of the greatest qb\'s to play the game talent wise and mentally wise.

Nobody will remember him as a a top 3-5 QB of all time if he doesnt win a superbowl.  I dont care if he throws 60 touchdowns

Teams are playing very stupid vs the Colts.  Instead of running the ball and being patient on offense they are trying to keep track with them.

Jeff Fisher\'s onside kicks are a great example of poor coaching.  Onside kick 5 minutes into the game?  Going for it at your own 40 yard line?  

Also,  I am VERY DISSAPOINTED in the defenses this season.  Manning this manning that,   but you got to remember these defenses have given up more 5 TD passers this season in decades.

Peyton throws 5 TDS vs the packers in one half everybody is wow he is best ever and 4 weeks later McNabb does the same thing to them, 5 tds in the first half.

Culpepper throws 5 TDS vs the Texans 2 weeks later Peyton does the same thing and everybody is wowed

This year\'s defenses stink.  I\'m an offensive guy,  but these teams got to start making these guys earn it

Um, which NFL are you watching??? There aren\'t too many poor defenses, its just a pure fact that Peyton Manning is making defenses look like idiots regardless of how good they are, except maybe NE who they should have won that game if not for mistakes. Get over it Warner boy, he will win that championship so don\'t worry.

Originally posted by mjps21983
its just a pure fact that Peyton Manning is making defenses look like idiots regardless of how good they are, except maybe NE who they should have won that game if not for mistakes..

Detroit
Chicago
Houston
Tennessee
Kansas City
Minnesota

Manning had his biggest games vs these teams.  Well,  only one has a winning record (Vikings 7-5)  

Chicago a defensive team?  I guess you can call them that since they dont have an offense.

Originally by mjps21983
Get over it Warner boy, he will win that championship so don\'t worry.

They said that about Marino

The fact is,  Peyton Manning is just as bad as McChoke when it comes to the playoffs.  Whats his record?  3-4 in the postseason?

Whats worst,  is he bombs in the biggest games.  42-0 to the Jets a couple of years ago in the playoffs.  4 pics vs the Patriots in the NFC championship last year.

I\'ll take Kurt Warner (5-2 all time postseason) when he was at St. Louis anyday over Manning in the postseason.  How about him coming back from 20+ down @New Orleans only to have his kick returner muff a punt to destroy all chances of a come behind win.  How about coming back from 17-3 in the superbowl to tie it with a rushing TD and a passing TD only to have his defense blow it in the last 2 minutes.  If his defense doesnt blow it the game goes to overtime,  Warner gets the ball scores and he gets his second superbowl MVP.  

Laugh if you want,  but I\'m sure people would take Tom Brady etc over Peyton in the playoffs.  

Originally posted by mjps21983
There aren\'t too many poor defenses,

The league hasnt seen quarterbacks throw this many 5 td games since the merger.  And no its not just Manning.  Culpepper was actually faster than Manning to 25 TDs.  McChoke throws 5 here and there.  

Maybe not defenses as a whole,  but a couple of teams are REALLY struggling.

You\'re all missing the point when you look at the teams he\'s playing, and say it isn\'t as much of an achievement because of who it is against.  Of those teams Alliswell listed, the Colts were the team to score the most points this season against all of them but the Vikings.  Not only that, but against argueably the better ones of them defensively: Houston, Chicago, and Tennessee, the Colts scored 15, 14, and 13 more points respectively than any other team in the league.  So it\'s definitely not like it\'s something anyone could do.  Also, none of those defenses are bad defenses.  I already put this stat up, if you look at their season schedule, the teams they\'ve played average to 17th out of 32 teams in scoring defense, which is just about average.  In otherwords, he hasn\'t had any easier a run at this than any other QB.

As for your stat about the playoffs, remember, Manning is still not that old a QB, and us just entering his prime.  Take a look at his playoffs last year.  In 3 games he passed for over 900 yards and nine touchdowns.  That\'s over 300 yards and 3 TD\'s a game.  During those games, the Colts scored 93 points, or 31 a game.  Since when is that not getting it done in the playoffs?

And yeah, I\'d take this year\'s Manning over Warner at any point in his career in a heart beat.

I agree that Manning is the most Physically talented quaterback.  Mentally, no, if he was a mentally talented QB he wouldn\'t have thrown 4 INTs against the Patriots in one game.