Vice-Presidential Debate: Cheney vs. Edwards (Reactions)

Woohoo got flash polled by ABC.

[SirMystiq]

And I suppose you ignored all the decisions Bush-Cheney have made that Edwards pointed out?

And also both of them lost their composure. Did you not see the faces Cheney was making when Edwards was pointing out the errors of their administration?

WHO goes by voting records?

Bush supporters?

People go by what each candidate is willing to do and has planned to do. Not by how many times you can look back in history and pick a few votes here and there. You can\'t make a decision on records simply because you don\'t know why the candidate voted against or for it. They sometimes read the bills and if they find something they don\'t like -like Edwards pointed out about the vote against "providing the troops with what they need"-as Cheney said, there are things that they don\'t agree with and that the public never finds out about.

In Bush-Cheney\'s case. We now are FACING the results of their decisions. We have seen the outcome of some of their decisions.

I guess Cheney knew alot more about what is going on that Bush did. I mean what can you expect from a president "gone" on vacation?

Cheney did a good job showing that he was the one that probably made all the decisions. Bush was just there to enforce them.

Kerry and Edwards only have their records as "proof" to show the public.  They have no experience.  If you vote for something or against something repeatedly you get a pattern and that is what people base their decisions on.

Nice of you to concede Cheney won the debate.  Thanks.

Please don\'t go away mad because boy wonder dropped the ball.  We have another debate on Friday - which will hopefully be more interesting than the last one.

I\'m sorry, even if Cheney won the debate, the quote that will stick out to me is one that Edwards made.

"you have not been straight with the people."

It\'s true, and it sent the most powerful message.

[SirMystiq]

I think Edwards didn\'t mess it up. That\'s a good thing.

I didn\'t feel like any of them won. I feel that they both accomplished what they set out to do.

If you\'re talking about the response to questions they received...That\'s a different issue. Edwards was more articulate and Cheney was more on the lines off "his voting record is there so I don\'t feel like discussing it" and alot of his silence seemed to me as an admittance of guilt or at least the feeling of not wanting to be there.

I was honestly bored. None of the candidates gave an all out whipping on the other guy like Kerry did Bush. But then again they went in there with an agenda and not to win.

I have but one question, what is this "Halberton" (sp?) scandal that Edwards spoke of?

I don\'t recall hearing anything about that til now.

[SirMystiq]

Following President Bush\'s demand for more corporate accountability, public interest group Judicial Watch, Inc., filed suit against Vice President Cheney and the Halliburton Company, alleging accounting fraud during Cheney\'s stewardship of Halliburton in the 1990s. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is also investigating Halliburton\'s accounting practices.


Judicial Watch Sues Cheney, Halliburton (AP, July 10, 2002)

Following is a brief explanation of Cheney\'s involvment with Halliburton and the pending lawsuit and SEC investigation.

What is Halliburton Co.?

The Dallas-based Halliburton Company provides products and services to the petroleum and energy industries to aid in the exploration, development and production of natural resources. Halliburton KBR, the company\'s engineering and construction division, designs, builds and provides additional services for the energy industry, governments and civil infrastructure. Halliburton employs 85,000 people in over 100 countries.

Halliburton came under fire in the early \'90s for supplying Libya and Iraq with oil drilling equipment which could be used to detonate nuclear weapons. Halliburton Logging Services, a former subsidiary, was charged with shipping six pulse neutron generators through Italy to Libya. In 1995, the company pled guilty to criminal charges that it violated the U.S. ban on exports to Libya. Halliburton was fined $1.2 million and will pay $2.61 million in civil penalties.


Halliburton Energy Services
What was Vice President Cheney\'s involvement with Halliburton?

Cheney was tapped in 1995 to lead Halliburton as chairman and chief executive officer while the company was a second-tier firm within the oil and energy industries. As secretary of defense during the Persian Gulf War, Cheney made international contacts which Halliburton executives hoped would propel the company to the industry\'s fore. Under his leadership, the company did expand overseas, swelling its domestic portfolio into foreign markets. Cheney also led the aggressive acquisition of competitors, an offensive strategy which occurred during a period of falling oil prices. The largest merger was with Dresser Industries for $5.4 billion in 1998 – the same month in which layoffs cut nine percent of the work force.

During his chairmanship of Halliburton, Cheney criticized U.S. sanctions against "rogue" nations such as Iran and Libya in a 1998 speech. According to a July 26, 2000, Washington Post story, Cheney complained the sanctions "are nearly always motivated by domestic political pressure, the need for Congress to appeal to some domestic constituency."

Cheney\'s work with Halliburton yielded large financial reward. In May 2000 he sold stock holdings in the company worth $5 million. When he retired from Halliburton during the 2000 presidential campaign, Cheney was awarded a retirement package worth $20 million.

Why is Halliburton under investigation by the SEC?

A little more than a month ago, Halliburton announced that the SEC had begun a probe into the company\'s booking of cost overruns on energy-related construction jobs. This practice accounted for the overruns as revenue, even if customers had not yet approved the charges, and inflated Halliburton profits by almost $100 million in 1998.

According to a June 2, 2002, Washington Post story, Halliburton said a shift in its mix of business mandated the new accounting policy, and that it conformed to generally accepted accounting principles. The accounting change was approved by Halliburton auditor Arthur Andersen.


U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission
The Post\'s coverage of the accounting industry
What is Judicial Watch?

Judicial Watch, Inc., is a self-described "nonpartisan" group which "investigates and prosecutes corruption by government officials," according to a press release. However, the organization has tilted conservative since its founding in 1994 by bringing numerous cases against former President Bill Clinton and his administration while offering legal representation for Paula Jones and Gennifer Flowers. The group also investigated the 2000 election Florida ballot dispute and currently has several cases pending against U.S. government agencies. Judicial Watch is a nonprofit group based in Washington, D.C., with satellite offices around the country.


Judicial Watch
What is Judicial Watch\'s lawsuit against Cheney?

Judicial Watch filed suit this week on behalf of shareholders against Cheney and 13 other Halliburton directors, as well as Halliburton itself and its accounting firm, Arthur Andersen LLP and Arthur Andersen Worldwide. The suit charges Cheney and Halliburton with fraudulent accounting practices and misleading press releases resulting in the overvaluation of the company\'s shares, leading to shareholder losses. The lawsuit alleges Halliburton overstated revenues by $445 million from 1999 through the end of 2001.

Two shareholders, Stephen S. Stephens of Indiana and Lyle and Deanna J. Lionbarger of New Mexico, have been listed as plaintiffs. The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Dallas.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/articles/halliburtonprimer.html

^^^There is more info there except I didn\'t want to post a whole lot.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5333896/

Transcript: Cheney vs. Edwards Debate

Originally posted by GigaShadow
"First time I ever met you is when you walked on the stage tonight."

That was my favorite quote of the debate.  So so funny.

GigaShadow, I was getting deja vu from Edwards also.  I actually think he said the exact same argument without realizing that he already said it (not just a sentence, but like a whole paragraph repeated word for word)

I think Edwards did a great, but as already said, Cheney did better.  Although towards the end of the debate, Cheney was looking kind of tired (or maybe that was just me -- it kind of dragged towards the end).   Overall, a great debate for both sides.  Cheney made up for Bush\'s messup last Thursday, and Edwards didn\'t hurt Kerry\'s chances by any means.


What I\'m trying to figure out is, why am I still undecided for who I want to win?  On one hand, I would like a change in government just to see what  kind of things Kerry does.  I do like some of the changes Kerry (and today Edwards) have talked about.  But on the other hand, I really want Bush to stay president so he can finish what he started in Iraq, and then move onto other things.  I want to avoid the situation where, a) Kerry is president and Iraq eventually becomes a success, and the democrats claim that it was successful because of Kerry".  Or b) Kerry is president and Iraq completely falls apart, which leads to fingers being pointed at Bush for getting us into this mess.  I think it would be a lot easier to leave it to Bush to finish what he started.  That way no matter what the fingers can be pointed at Bush.

Originally posted by IronFist
I actually think he said the exact same argument without realizing that he already said it (not just a sentence, but like a whole paragraph repeated word for word)

Did he keep saying "Hard Work"?

If he did I think I saw that episode already.

[videoholic]

The thing that drove me insane was how Kerry and Edwards have all these plans to get the troops out, to get other allies involved, to solve health care, to fix education, blah blah blah.

They haven\'t shown me a single plan that will be paid for.  I honetly think I would vote for Kerry and Edwards if I lived at 801 twinkle toes lane,  Happyville, FL.

But I don\'t.

This world is not all roses.  It takes, time, commitment, and money to get it on the right track.  Some how the Democrats think you just throw a ruthless dictator out of power and within a couple months we should be out of there with a democracy in place and a pretty rose garden out in front of their congress building (Whatever they call it).


BTW, on MSNBC\'s website they have Edwards havingn won the debate 67-33....  I can\'t figure out what the 800,000+ voters were watching, but I have to assume some one slammed the site with automated voting..

Originally posted by videoholic
The thing that drove me insane was how Kerry and Edwards have all these plans to get the troops out, to get other allies involved, to solve health care, to fix education, blah blah blah.

They haven\'t shown me a single plan that will be paid for.  I honetly think I would vote for Kerry and Edwards if I lived at 801 twinkle toes lane,  Happyville, FL.

But I don\'t.

This world is not all roses.  It takes, time, commitment, and money to get it on the right track.  Some how the Democrats think you just throw a ruthless dictator out of power and within a couple months we should be out of there with a democracy in place and a pretty rose garden out in front of their congress building (Whatever they call it).


BTW, on MSNBC\'s website they have Edwards havingn won the debate 67-33....  I can\'t figure out what the 800,000+ voters were watching, but I have to assume some one slammed the site with automated voting..

Vid, Terry McAwful sent out another mass email yesterday to Dems to spam online poll sites post debate.  "If we can\'t win, at least make it look like we did!"  Basically, they hit both MSNBC and CBS - in any case online polls are in no way scientific.

Man, watching the media spin this into an Edwards win is very interesting. In no way did I see this as an Edwards win or a draw.

Dems sent boy on man\'s errand
By Howie Carr
Wednesday, October 6, 2004

[Excerpt]

John Edwards looked like Opie last night, and he sounded like Barney Fife, and after that mistake by the lake, there\'s only one place John Edwards [related, bio] should be headed today.

To Michigan, for a nice long ride in Mike Dukakis\' tank.

It may not have changed a lot of minds, and it dragged big time in the last half. And of course everyone was clicking back and forth between Cleveland and the Yankees game. But if last night\'s debate had been a prize fight, it would have been stopped around 9:20, and Gwen Ifill would have passed the hat in the crowd to raise carfare to send the ambulance chaser home in an ambulance.

Grumpy Old Man 1, Breck Girl 0.

If George Bush had been half as good as Dick Cheney in his debate in Miami last week, this race would be over.

John Edwards was the one who needed body armor last night. Cheney slammed him on his use of loopholes to avoid paying $600,000 in Medicare taxes, and then delivered two memorable soundbites, the first on the Kerry-Edwards ticket.

``If they couldn\'t stand up to the pressures of Howard Dean [related, bio],\'\' Cheney said, ``how can they stand up to al-Qaeda?\'\'

And then pointing out to Edwards that he\'s the presiding officer of the Senate, Cheney told Boy Edwards that he\'s up there every Tuesday, ``and the first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight.\'\'

Ouch. You might say Dick Cheney knew Sam Ervin and Jesse Helms, and John Edwards is neither.

Someone on National Review summed it up nicely last evening:

If you want somebody sued, call John Edwards.

If you want somebody killed, call Dick Cheney.

Forget Florida. Is John Edwards now eligible for federal disaster relief? Never send a boy on a man\'s errand, that\'s another of last night\'s lessons. It was a mirror image of Thursday night, in that Cheney and Kerry weren\'t that great, it was just that Edwards and Bush were so feeble.

How weak was it that with six days to prepare for the ``global testing\'\' question, the best Edwards could come up with was that Kerry ``said in the same segment that we will never give anyone a veto over our security.\'\'

In other words, John Kerry [related, bio] was against global testing before he was for it.

You have to wonder, though, why George Bush didn\'t give Kerry the same smackdown last week. All Edwards did was dust off Kerry\'s talking-points, for instance the fact that 90 percent of the casualties are allegedly American. The Wall Street Journal blew that up the morning before the debate, but Bush didn\'t see it.

Oh, I forgot, George Bush doesn\'t read newspapers.

Boy, has John Edwards lost touch with his alleged roots. Millionaires sitting by their swimming pools? Who\'s he kidding with that lame class-warfare rhetoric? He\'s one of the Beautiful People now. Edwards has gone from Hee Haw to foie gras, from George Jones to George Soros, from Barbara Mandrell to Barbra Streisand.

It\'s not a pretty picture. Social climbing never is. That\'s why the Silky Pony couldn\'t run for re-election in North Carolina - he was going to lose. Because those old boys saw right through him. They know when a guy goes from pick-up trucks to nip-and-tucks.


http://news.bostonherald.com/columnists/view.bg?articleid=47668

Howie is awesome! Howie has a radio show here in Boston and I\'ve done some video work for him.

He does slant to the right but he will call out any politician no matter what side they sit on.