Keep your kids from being gay

Saying that homosexuality is \'unnatural\', ie outside of the bounds of the subset of behaviour that would occur in a controlled group of human beings with no external input (testing the human \'animal\' as it were) is unsupportable. Empirical evidence of societies that existed outside of the bounds of a moral perspective that homosexuality is wrong disprove it.

So the condemnation of homosexuality is always based on a moral perspective. Those who oppose homosexuality can never say that it is only a symptom of abnormality (due to the large numbers of historical homosexuals who were, in all other respects, functional and ordinary). But they will fall back on the position that it is a personal choice, and that it is a choice for a morally wrong mode of behaviour.

So you have to inquire as to the basis for that moral belief (ie what is the set of beliefs giving rise to the comparison) and test how infallible that moral code is or has been in the past.

Take christianity for example. It appears to be a tennant of that faith that homosexuality is wrong. So, you have to ask "has christianity always been right?". I however think that the better question is "has christianity always been consistent?".

Christians believe that their moral beliefs come straight from god. That, by its nature, should be an immutable truth. God doesn\'t change his mind or the interpretation of his words. So, if thats true, then christianity should have retained a single immutable unchanged set of values and beliefs throughout the entirity of its history. After all, they\'re never wrong, and its gods own words. Sadly, that isn\'t the case. It seems that the tenants of the christian faith have changed and developed over time (eg women are no longer seen as the progenitors of original sin who had to cover their heads in gods church), albeit not with respect to homosexuality.

Its enough to say that the christian moral code is variable and therefore serves as a poor basis for judging a type of behaviour that predates the religion itself. Not that christianity is bad, I\'m a christian myself, but rather that christians should realise when they have been handed a moral compass and programmed to use it. I mean really, how many people here came up with the idea that homosexuality is wrong all on their own?

So, if homosexuality occurs when there is no forced moral taboo on it, it is scientifically within the group of \'normal human behaviours\'.

And to validly compare a particular behaviour to a moral code and to demarcate that behaviour as an absolute wrong, that moral code must have the qualities of consistency and objective universal validity.

Homosexuality is not a choice. No sexuality is a conscience choice. You choose who to engage in sex acts with but not to whom you are innately attracted to. You do not decide to be attracted to a handsome specimen and then decide to not be attracted to some morbidly obese one; you just are or are not attracted (love at first sight?). If one could decide who really turns them on then you should be able to enjoy sex or at least be as equally excited by the prospect of sex with anyone, regardless of appearance; which we know* is absolutely not the case.

[Titan]

I\'m pretty sure the Catholic Church doesn\'t have a problem with people being gay and having gay members (I don\'t think they can become priests) but they have a problem with marrying them because of morals. I dunno. If anyone knows anything about it tell me.

[Evi]

Catholicism isn\'t Christianity. They have different beliefs, such as the Pope. The pope isn\'t in the bible. The bible says that anyone who changes the word of God [which is what the Pope does, and where the idea of "Purgatory" came from"] is anathema, and is cursed to the darkest depths of hell, and is the worst thing you could ever do. The Pope thinks his word is just as good as God\'s, if not better.

I\'m pretty sure the Catholic Church doesn\'t have a problem with people being gay and having gay members

They do have a problem with it, but I\'ve heard they\'re trying to allow gay priests in the church, but whatever. Catholicism doesn\'t allow for priests to be married, so that messes them up metally. The bible actually says that priests should be married, and have lots of kids

(eg women are no longer seen as the progenitors of original sin who had to cover their heads in gods church)

People also use to burn witches at the stake, but we don\'t do that anymore.

You can\'t compare Christianity from what it is today. Back then, bibles were in foreign languages, and the Pope used to read to people what it said, or what he felt like saying, for that matter. That\'s where all these crazy ass ideas came from, and different branches of one religion, because they didn\'t want to believe the BS that the Pope was saying. But what they were doing was just as bad, creating their own personal ideals of religion, still neglecting to understand the bible. But, once the bible became printed in languages that people understood, individuals could judge for themselves [and humans tend to have misinterpretations].

Meh, I can\'t articulate my thoughts very well right now.

meh, still doesn\'t change my arguement that any and all objections to homosexuality is based on moral perspective.

[Titan]

In older days, priests had prostitutes and could have sex. Now they can\'t. Weird how things change.

[Evi]

In older days, priests had prostitutes and could have sex. Now they can\'t. Weird how things change.

That\'s also NOT allowed in the bible. But ok then...

meh, still doesn\'t change my arguement that any and all objections to homosexuality is based on moral perspective.

People who aren\'t religious are against homosexuality. I, for one, am not. I\'m no longer a Christian due to lingering doubts, but I like for the facts to be straight. There\'s no point in assuming something when you don\'t know what the heck you\'re talking about [that\'s a generalized statement not directed at you ].

Originally posted by EviscerationX
People who aren\'t religious are against homosexuality.

I\'m not arguing that, the core of my post was to simply point out that anyone who claims homosexuality to be unnatural has no foundation other than moral implication, no matter the orgination.  The post goes further to challenge those morals/values as to their validity.  Christianity was an easy example.

Originally posted by EThuggV3
First of all, I said ACTING on it is optional. I know it\'s 3 letters long, and you probably got bored, but I said ACT. A - C - T. Unless you of course are asserting that you can find yourself having sex against your will...

Fair enough. Although then of course your acting on your heterosexuality is also optional...

Second, the human genome has been decoded. A \'gay gene\' has been searched for. There is none.[/B]

Because scientists are never wrong and picking out a "gay gene" is as easy as finding a black ball in a bowl of white balls.

All homosexuality is the result of three possibilities: 1) Choice. Plain and simple, and I know people who have done it, do it, and have thought of doing it, so save your incredulous denial. 2) Chemical/hormonal imbalances that create unnatural levels of estrogen or testosterone. Both sexes have both, it\'s very simple (and scientifically \'provable\') that such hormones can be imbalanced. There are probably other things that can be imbalanced, but those two hormones make the most sense as the main cause of this route. 3) Mental trama, usually from childhood.[/b]

So what are you arguing here? If someone is gay because of imbalanced hormones, then you don\'t have a say in the matter - you just \'are\' gay. If we link that back to what you said earlier - you wouldn\'t want your children to learn about being tolerant of people who are gay and can\'t help the way they are? Should they also be intolerate of handicapped people, retards etc.?

In nature homosexual acts are commited nondiscriminantly because a dog, a frog, a monkey (pick your animal) will **** anything. Cannibalism, pedophilia, incest and more also occur in nature with the same regularity, so I suggest not using the animal kingdom as some sort of defense (if you were feeling so inclined).[/B]

Let me be honest and say I\'m not really sure what you mean by that. I might be wrong, but are you saying that "homosexuals will f*** any man" whereas heterosexuals won\'t f*** any woman? Gays are attracted to their own sex just as straigt people are attracted to the opposite sex - but neither are attracted to ALL the specimen, only the \'attractive\' ones (and what\'s considered attractive is individual as we all know).

If by any chance you didn\'t mean what I thought you did, I apologize.

Originally posted by EviscerationX
These "extremists" are actually contradicting themselves. What Christians believe is that homosexuality is a sin, just like any other sin, and should be taken as that. The bible says that this sort of thing shouldn\'t be blown out of proportioin like these morons are doing, and pointing out one sin, when the extremists themselves have many sins. A sin is a sin in the bible, and it doesn\'t matter what it is. You can\'t point at one person and say "You\'re a sinner!" when in reality, we ALL are, and that\'s what the God of the bible wants us [if you\'re a Christian] to realize. If you were a true Christian, you\'d understand that.

And yes, tolerance is a big thing in the bible...

Amen, you hit the nail on the head.

For some reason, there seems to be this tremendous hatred towards gay\'s in the church, and I have no idea why. There is too much condemnation within the church on this very subject and I have no idea why. Jesus preaches love and acceptance, not acceptance of sin, but acceptance of everyone. Every human, every sinner, and every ******. Jesus would not treat fags the way the majority of right wing Christian activists do, its crazy, they just make themselves and everything they apparently stand for look stupid. I just don\'t know why there is such hatred so deeply rooted. Where did it come from? They also make Christians who don\'t hate fags also look bad. Not all Christians believe the way they do!

We are all sinners. Regardless of what we do, we are going to continue to sin, however hard we try not to. These people (homosexuals) are simply trying to make a life for themselves. They don\'t want to live through years of misery by not truly being who they really are. Jesus understands. Its realising that we are sinners and asking for forgiveness thats important, and realising that only through Jesus can we truly be better people.

And by the way, what does a video on tolorance have anything to do with Focus On The Family? Why are they sticking their noses into this? By complaining about this they are stating that they have no tolorance towards fags. What a joke. They are just making themselves look so stupid.

Something about gays.Its not always a matter of choice or fetish.Thats BS actually.I happened to listen to gay people.And they just feel attraction for the same gendre but not for the opposite since their teen life.They just are like that.

Their "homosexual orientation" developed just as "heterosexual orientation" has developed in us.Almost as if it was nature\'s way.As if they were ment to be like that.

Even if they try to feel attraction for the opposite sex they will feel just like a heterosexual who is trying to force his self to feel attraction for the same sex.

Also gay people arent some crazy people that will seek sex whenever they get the chance with another gay.They act just as we do.They seek love and understanding as well.They will often seek the appropriate partner just as we do with the opposite sex.

I don\'t understand how people can say that its a matter of choice. What you feel attracted to is not something that you can just \'make happen\' or force. Ask any heterosexual man to have feelings for another guy and he\'ll go \'ewww\'. Its just not something you can force.

And besides, why would someone choose to be gay if they really weren\'t? I do believe that there are some people out there who are just so stupidly horny and slutty that they\'ll just have sex with whatever comes their way, male or femaile. These people are not true homosexuals, they are just sluts, and they are the ones who are commiting true sin.

[CHIZZY]

the only reason priests are not allowed to marry is simple.
In the old days, catholic priests were allowed to marry. But since
they often were the most wealthy people in the land, often being
akin to "lords" with their own peasantry and such, the papalcy didn\'t want them leaving their fortunes to their families. So the pope made it so that they couldn\'t marry or have sex. Convenient, huh? I\'ll try to cite sourcesa when I\'m not so hungover.

Originally posted by Unicron!
Also gay people arent some crazy people that will seek sex whenever they get the chance with another gay.They act just as we do.They seek love and understanding as well.They will often seek the appropriate partner just as we do with the opposite sex.

Not on the real world ...even though that isn\'t even an example since it is TV...

Originally posted by DeAnna
Not on the real world ...even though that isn\'t even an example since it is TV...

ahm...what?Dint get what you are trying to say there

You\'ve never heard of The Real World???

ON MTV?!?!
 
DO YOU LIVE IN A CAVE?!?!?!