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Author Topic: First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC  (Read 1602 times)

Offline Evi

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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« on: February 07, 2005, 11:18:34 PM »
Here you go you lazy people. C and P isn\'t that difficult:

SAN FRANCISCO--The chip that will run the next version of the PlayStation video game machine will have nine processor cores and run faster than 4GHz, the chip\'s designers revealed Monday.

Engineers from Sony, IBM and Toshiba revealed those and other specifications for the Cell processor during a press conference at the International Solid-State Circuits Conference, where technical papers on the Cell design will be presented this week.

The three companies have been working on Cell for several years, promising to deliver a high-performance chip optimized for multimedia applications. Test production of Cell chips is set to begin later this year, and the processors will appear later in workstation PCs optimized for animation and other graphics chores. The chip will also power the next version of Sony\'s PlayStation game console, which is widely expected to be released late this year or early next year.

While analysts and researchers have already puzzled out most of the basic aspects of the Cell design, Monday\'s announcements included some of the first specifics.

Cell will have a 64-bit IBM Power processor and eight "synergistic processing units" capable of handling separate computing tasks, said Jim Kahle, an IBM Fellow. The Power processor will act as the brain of the chip, running the main operating system for an application and divvying up chores for the other processors.

The multicore design will give software developers tremendous flexibility, Kahle said, allowing them to run multiple operating systems on the same chip and experiment with variations on grid computing.

"It\'s designed from the beginning to work in a world where all the computers are tied together," he said.

Future versions of Cell chips could have more or fewer processing units depending on what device and software designers require, Kahle said. "There are a number of different ways to implement parallelism on the chip," he said.

How those processing units are used is up to software developers, including the game makers who will soon start wrestling with the PlayStation 3. Kahle said IBM and its Cell partners will provide game developers and other code writers with open-source tools and guidelines for working with Cell but that game developers will have final say on how they chop up computing tasks among the processing units.

"It\'s really...up to the game developer," he said. "You can program it in many different ways."

Other Cell numbers include the following.

• The first version of the chip will run at speeds faster than 4GHz. Engineers were vague about how much faster, but reports from design partners say 4.6GHz is likely. By comparison, the fastest current Pentium PC processor tops out at 3.8GHz.

• Cell can process 256 billion calculations per second (256 gigaflops), falling a wee bit short of marketing hyperbole calling it a "supercomputer on a chip." The slowest machine on the current list of the Top 500 supercomputers can do 851 gigaflops.

• The chip will have 2.5MB of on-chip memory and have the ability to shuttle data to and from off-chip memory at speeds up to 100 gigabytes per second, using XDR and FlexIO interface technology licensed from Rambus.


"One of the key messages you hear from the architects of next-generation chips is that their performance is being limited by off-chip bandwidth," said Rich Warmke, product marketing manager at Rambus. "We\'ve really licked that with Cell. One hundred gigabytes per second is really unprecedented in the industry."

• The chip will have 234 million transistors, measure 221mm square and be produced using advanced 90-nanometer chipmaking processes. Peter Glaskowsky, a consultant at research company The Envisioneering Group, said he expects Cell production to shift to a 65-nanometer process, however, as IBM introduces the chipmaking technology later this year.

While the PlayStation 3 is likely to be the first mass-market product to use Cell, the chip\'s designers have said the flexible architecture means that Cell will be useful for a wide range of applications, from servers to cell phones. Initial devices are unlikely to be any smaller than a game console, however--the first version of the Cell will run hot enough to require a cooling fan, Kahle said.

Some competitors, however, are skeptical that Cell will find much of a home outside of video games. One of the big problems with Cell, said Justin Rattner, an Intel Fellow, is that the processing units aren\'t identical, a situation that increases complexity and the opportunity for bugs.

"You\'ve got this asymmetry," Rattner said. "It\'s like having two kinds of motors under the hood. We are very reluctant to adopt architectures like this because they take compatibility and throw it out the window."
« Last Edit: February 07, 2005, 11:20:53 PM by Evi »

Offline THX
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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2005, 11:28:37 PM »
More pre-PS3 marketing hype.  If they shake up the PC world in any way, and even better, give AMD/Intel/MS a run for their money, then I\'ll start to read all the useless tech specs.

But right now, this gives me chilling reminders of all the PS2 EE "insane" specs that were gonna power games that would blow our minds.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2005, 11:30:17 PM by THX »

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Offline Evi

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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2005, 11:34:41 PM »
Marketing hype? This is from the official CELL presentation. It\'s legit...and about damn time.

The PS3 will have 9 cores...and blah blah blah. Here\'s some slides form the presentation:

Slide 1
Slide 2
Slide 3
Slide 4
Slide 5
Slide 6
Slide 7
Slide 8
Slide 9
Slide 10
Slide 11
Slide 12
Slide 13
Slide 14
Slide 15

The ISSCC won\'t be over for a few days, so we\'ll know a lot more soon.

Offline clips

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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2005, 11:59:11 PM »
too much technical mumbo jumbo for me...but i guess those specs are a good thing right?  :confused:
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Offline Paul2

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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2005, 04:33:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EviscerationX
Marketing hype? This is from the official CELL presentation. It\'s legit...and about damn time.

The PS3 will have 9 cores...and blah blah blah. Here\'s some slides form the presentation:

Slide 1
Slide 2
Slide 3
Slide 4
Slide 5
Slide 6
Slide 7
Slide 8
Slide 9
Slide 10
Slide 11
Slide 12
Slide 13
Slide 14
Slide 15

The ISSCC won\'t be over for a few days, so we\'ll know a lot more soon.


:nerd: *drools*...cool news.

Thanks for the heads up.

Offline Black Samurai
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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2005, 05:32:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EviscerationX
Marketing hype? This is from the official CELL presentation. It\'s legit...and about damn time.
"Supercomputer on a chip" = Marketing Hype

Show me some damn games.
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Offline Hawke
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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2005, 08:36:55 AM »
Ridge Racer : Revelation and Tekken Lag Tournament. Yay.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2005, 08:40:26 AM by Hawke »
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Offline Unicron!
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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2005, 10:28:54 AM »
I was expecting more impressive specs

Offline Paul2

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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2005, 11:10:13 AM »
Yeah,

I know what you mean.  I guess both Microsoft and Sony won\'t release their "specs" that we are waiting for until the machine is complete or near complete....save the best for the last.

These specs that we are waiting for is:

-Polygons count
-Main RAM
-V RAM...
-Sound RAM...

Offline clips

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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2005, 05:57:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Paul2
Yeah,

I know what you mean.  I guess both Microsoft and Sony won\'t release their "specs" that we are waiting for until the machine is complete or near complete....save the best for the last.

These specs that we are waiting for is:

-Polygons count
-Main RAM
-V RAM...
-Sound RAM...


i\'m more concerned  about the vram since that was one of the weakest components of the ps2...
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Offline JP
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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2005, 09:52:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Unicron!
I was expecting more impressive specs


More impressive specs?! WTF have you been smoking?

Those specs are pretty outragous considering the fact that the Xenon CPU going into the Xbox 2 is below 100 GFlops according to the leaked Xenon documents.

And we still don\'t know if they\'re planning to put more than one of these into the PS3 yet. The Cell architecture is highly scalable.

Offline Evi

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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2005, 10:11:20 PM »
Considering we\'re dealing with 90nm chips on 300mm wafers, it\'d be hard to judge how many will fit onto one of those [and how much it would cost them financially]. And 256GFLops on a chip isn\'t impressive? That\'s more than ten times the power of current PCs. What the f^ck do you guys want? I think they achieved the hype since the patent refers to 1TFLOP with 4 PEs. The CELL chip has 1 PE [Processing Unit]. 256GFLOPs*4 = 1TFLOP I\'d say that\'s pretty damn impressive.

Just knowing the CELL specs isn\'t going to give us the best impression, we need the PS3 specs as a whole with NVIDIA\'s GPU included.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2005, 10:12:23 PM by Evi »

Offline Paul2

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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2005, 01:06:51 AM »
Yeah,

these 4 Ghz spec and 256 GFLOPS is impressive, but we are curious about the polygon counts and how good it will look on videogames...

Offline Samwise
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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2005, 01:33:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Paul2
Yeah,

these 4 Ghz spec and 256 GFLOPS is impressive, but we are curious about the polygon counts and how good it will look on videogames...

Then we\'ll have to wait to see what nVidia and Sony have whipped up. :)

Personally I have a feeling that PS3 will be (slightly) more powerful than Xbox Next. Of course, they\'ll both be plenty fast, so it probably won\'t matter much.
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Offline THX
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First Details About The CELL @ ISSCC
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2005, 03:09:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Samwise
Personally I have a feeling that PS3 will be (slightly) more powerful than Xbox Next. Of course, they\'ll both be plenty fast, so it probably won\'t matter much.

I get that feeling too.  Sony always gets the most developers so I hope the PS3 is just as powerful as X2.

As for Nintendo I have the feeling they\'re going to try new innovations and gimmicks with the Revolution.  For example they had 2 screens on the DS but you can view, touch, or even blow on it for input.  I think they\'re going to do some more "outside-the-box" thinking to stay competitive rather than rely on insane specs.

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