Very Interesting "Gabe Newell\'s Analysis on Next Gen systems"

Came across this just today.

"Your Existing Code? Throw it Away"
Thursday, 21 July 2005
Valve boss Gabe Newell is shocked at the lack of appreciation for the giant hurdles involved in next generation console development.

"Technologically, I think every game developer should be terrified of the next generation of processors. Your existing code, you can just throw it away. It\'s not going to be helpful in creating next generation game titles," said Newell.

"Most of the problems of getting these systems running on these multicore processors are not solved. They are doctoral theses, not known implementation problems. So it\'s not even clear that over the lifespan of these next generation systems that they will be solved problems. The amount of time it takes to get a good multicore engine running, the Xbox 360 might not even be on the market any longer. That should scare the crap out of everybody."

Newell cautions "Really good engineers are going to be much more valuable and engineers who used to be valuable writing game code in the previous generation may end up becoming thorns in the side of key programmers who can write multi-core game code."

Is this different?

But learning curves for new hardware have been par for the course for the past several generations of hardware. How exactly is this different?

"Yes, it is different. It is much more difficult now to write code that will have predictable behavior. We have performance problems now in the out-of-order universe because we have programmers who can\'t figure out why the changes they made caused the system to behave the way it does.

"So one of the people who has a deeper understanding of the overall architecture has to come in and tinker around, more or less blind, because there aren\'t a lot of performance tools that give insight into what\'s happening in the cache memory, where a lot of this stuff goes wrong. It goes a lot worse in a multicore world, where there\'s a whole bunch of stuff going on in these separate [cores], can suddenly have an impact on the entire system.

"If writing in-order code [in terms of difficulty] is a one and writing out-of-order code is a four, then writing multicore code is a 10," cautions Newell. "That\'s going to have consequences for a lot of people in our industry. People who were marginally productive before, will now be people that you can\'t afford to have write engine or game code. They can\'t get a big enough picture of what\'s going on in the box so they\'ll be a net negative on the project."

Hardware claims

Newell is also scathing about hardware manufacturer claims regarding perormance.

"Statements about \'Oh, the PS3 is going to be twice as fast as an Xbox 360\' are totally meaningless . It means nothing. It\'s surprising that game customers don\'t realize how it treats them like idiots. The assumption is that you\'re going to swallow that kind of system, when in fact there\'s no code that has been run on both of those architectures that is anything close to a realistic proxy for game performance. So to make a statement like that, I\'m worried for the customers. And that we view customers as complete morons that will never catch on and that we\'re lying to them all the time. That\'s a problem because in the long run, it will have an impact on our sales."

Gabe Newell has shared his opinions and experiences with us. We\'d like to hear from more developers what challenges and solutions (if any) you\'re facing with your next generation console projects.

Basically he is saying that both Consoles wil be extremely powerful, but most likely there full potential will not be as closely reached as current/previous consoles have.

ALSO I am a bit curious if MR. Newell\'s true agenda or bitterness has something to do with  porting his source engine to next-gen platform which would be a Huge engineering feet.



http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=510&Itemid=2

Gabe Newell is an overweight fagget

let me find a pic

Look at him, he\'s gay

hahaha, classic shit right there

[clips]

sounds like this cat is just poppin\' s**t. the same thing was said about the ps2 and xbox."oh well might as well forget about what you learned for coding games for xbox and ps2" he probably didn\'t say it for the current systems but when ps2 and xbox first came out, people from around the industry was sayin the same thing...

meh i\'m not worried about this,..as long as the games deliver, i\'ll be satisfied,..as with any new system, there will always be a learning process,..some people just like to hear themselves talk...some of what he states is true as far as companies stating which system will be more powerful, but i feel the general public or at least those with some type of  common sense won\'t fall for such nonsense...

soul caliber for the dreamcast by today\'s standards is still one of thee best looking games to date...and the dreamcast wasn\'t even the most powerful system at that time...and that was how many years ago? just like with the next generation of systems coming up, it really doesn\'t matter who has the most "powerful" system, and graphics at this point will generally be the same across the board....marketing and the system with the most variety of games will flourish....

[Evi]

That is one fat dude...good lord...hope he doesn\'t have a heart attack.

They should make him a hip homosexual like that MS dude.

I don\'t think that\'s humanly possible.

Originally posted by clips
sounds like this cat is just poppin\' s**t. the same thing was said about the ps2 and xbox."oh well might as well forget about what you learned for coding games for xbox and ps2" he probably didn\'t say it for the current systems but when ps2 and xbox first came out, people from around the industry was sayin the same thing...

meh i\'m not worried about this,..as long as the games deliver, i\'ll be satisfied,..as with any new system, there will always be a learning process,..some people just like to hear themselves talk...some of what he states is true as far as companies stating which system will be more powerful, but i feel the general public or at least those with some type of  common sense won\'t fall for such nonsense...

Very true.The same thing was said by Bernie Stollar from SEGA about PS2.

Although not totally wrong.But things werent as "serious" as they thought they would have been.
Developers adjust more than initially expected.And in this case we should expect the same thing.

He may express some concerns regarding multicore processors but then again how long have developers been creating games on them?
Its a matter of experience.Soon these issues will be dealt.

soul caliber for the dreamcast by today\'s standards is still one of thee best looking games to date...and the dreamcast wasn\'t even the most powerful system at that time...and that was how many years ago? just like with the next generation of systems coming up, it really doesn\'t matter who has the most "powerful" system, and graphics at this point will generally be the same across the board....marketing and the system with the most variety of games will flourish....

 And not just Soul Calibur.Its nor relying on high polygon models
but it rather makes good use of the lighting effects, and its art direction make it one of the best looking.
 Heavy Metal,Sonic Adventure and SA2 still rock my world graphically.
 Its interesting to see how some developers utilise the hardware in some ways that their games remain on top despite that it may be less powerfull with a difference.
 About which is the most powerful though thats also marketing.Although difference may be more insignifigant than expected (unless Sony isnt bullshitting us with their tech demos), statements here and there refering to XBOX360 or PS3 being more powerful than the other, are marketing as well.
 All three giants werent 100% honest with Nintendo being the least dishonest(only Resi4 rivals graphically that Rebirth tech demo IMO) the previous generation.

 People arent dumb though.People are raising so much their expectations this generation that I doubt Sony or MS will have the same impact they did before if they dont satisfy them.

:thumb:

[Cerberus]

...

Isnt Valve the developer studio that made Half Life2?

[Living-In-Clip]

Duh.

Valve = HL / HL2.

[Evi]

Isnt Valve the developer studio that made Half Life2?

Very good, here\'s a cookie.

Just wanted to be sure since I didnt expect such reactions against the boss of the software company that made HL