How are we all doing here?

[Evi]

The Book of Mormon started supposedly when some 17 year old kid (Joseph Smith) had a vision of an angel in his bedroom and God told him that he\'d do his work through Josepth Smith and that the REAL scriptures were written on gold plates and God told him the location of these plates. This all happened around 1823. Mormonism is supposedly a "revival" of Christianity, basically saying that the old Christianity is flawed and the new one is perfect...their Pearl of Great Price. Yet so many things in the Book of Mormon contradict the bible.

After all, Jesus Christ lived a perfectly clean life, free from sin, why couldn\'t God have lived like that, too?

In the bible, Jesus is God, so this is a contradiction of the religions right here. You are saying they are two separate beings. In the bible, Jesus (God) has always been.

well, look at Job 38:4-7

Looks like we existed before the foundation of the earth, too. How could we have existed in Genesis 1:26, it says that the God (in plural form) created us after he created the earth. Looks like we have always existed, too.

It really is an interesting thing to talk about.

The Bible is the real scripture. It is God\'s word, after all. Of course, it has passed through many hands, which is why we see so many translations in today\'s world, none exactly to same, effectively changing what God intended when it was written. The Book of Mormon hasn\'t passed through alot of hands. It is God\'s word, too. But we just believe it has been prepared for our time. To show us that God still reveals new things. That he isn\'t a dead God, done with teaching us what we need to know.

In religion, concerning baptism and such, almost all churches believe that theirs is the only true church and the only one with all the answers. That by going to another church, you will receive less of that truth. We are no different in that respect. But, instead of merely saying that we have all the answers, we say that Jesus Christ himself restored His origial church back on the earth. Not another break-off of Catholicism like the Lutherans, Protestants, Presbyterians, Anglicans, etc. But God restoring His church with a prophet and 12 apostles.

Like I said, we all have the same fundamentals, catholics, mormons, baptists, etc.

Jesus is our savior, we are children of God, we can return to live with God after this life.

btw, in 1 John 4:14 it said that the Father sent Jesus to the world, making, in effect, Jesus lower than God.

John 5: 19 says he can only do what he has seen the Father do.

Then again, Jesus always refers to himself as the Son of Man.

I am not saying everything you know is wrong, but you should have a more open-ended policy towards accepting my church as mormon, since I have presented a viable argument as the church being in fact a Christian church. Sure, we disagree with many beliefs of other Christian churces, but the core beliefs, as I have stated above, are the same.

[Evi]

Looks like we existed before the foundation of the earth, too. How could we have existed in Genesis 1:26, it says that the God (in plural form) created us after he created the earth. Looks like we have always existed, too.

If he created us after the earth, that doesn\'t mean we\'ve always existed. That doesn\'t even make sense.

it says that the God (in plural form)

Yet another contradiction. You said plural form because Mormons believe in many Gods in many universes. The bible says there is only one God (Jesus).

The Bible is the real scripture. It is God\'s word, after all. Of course, it has passed through many hands, which is why we see so many translations in today\'s world, none exactly to same, effectively changing what God intended when it was written. The Book of Mormon hasn\'t passed through alot of hands. It is God\'s word, too. But we just believe it has been prepared for our time. To show us that God still reveals new things. That he isn\'t a dead God, done with teaching us what we need to know.

You\'re saying the bible is full or errors and the book of Mormon isn\'t. Take a look at the Dead Sea Scrolls for ancient unchanged scripture.

In religion, concerning baptism and such, almost all churches believe that theirs is the only true church and the only one with all the answers.

You never have to step foot in a church to be saved.

That by going to another church, you will receive less of that truth.

You\'re supposed to go by what the bible says, not what others who have crazy ideas say. The pope isn\'t even in the bible and is considered an anathema by what he does. An anathema is a very bad thing.

But, instead of merely saying that we have all the answers, we say that Jesus Christ himself restored His origial church back on the earth.

Thus contradicting the bible yet again.

Jesus is our savior, we are children of God, we can return to live with God after this life.

Mormons believe only the worthiest of Mormons get to live with God and Jesus (there\'s the and again, which contradicts the bible, which states God is Jesus).

btw, in 1 John 4:14 it said that the Father sent Jesus to the world, making, in effect, Jesus lower than God.

Taken out of context and ignoring other verses that state Jesus is God.

I am not saying everything you know is wrong, but you should have a more open-ended policy towards accepting my church as mormon, since I have presented a viable argument as the church being in fact a Christian church. Sure, we disagree with many beliefs of other Christian churces, but the core beliefs, as I have stated above, are the same.

This isn\'t disagreements between churches. This is about the Book of Mormon completely contradicting the bible.

I don\'t think you are understanding what I am saying.

Jesus is God. We believe that. Jesus has a Father. It\'s in the Bible several times. If Jesus has a Father, how is he God?

in Genesis 1:26 it says:

"Let us make man in our image and semblance

tell me again how that indicates that there is only one God. The name of God even switches. in Chapter one it always says God, chapter 2 the LORD God. We know by history that the Jews never said the name Jehovah and substituted Adonai or other titles for His name. If you look at the Hebrew version of the Bible (which by all accounts should be the most accurate), when it says just God, it is translated from Elohim and when it says LORD God, it is referring to Jehovah himself.

Millions of people will be saved without ever once having stepped in a mormon church. That is a teaching of the church. The bible says those who aren\'t baptized can\'t reach heaven, billions of people who have lived on the earth never were or will be baptized, how do you explain that one, that teaching came directly out of Jesus\' mouth, by the way.

Oh, and the Mormon Church just did a large tour of all Europe with the Dead Sea Scrolls, trust us, we wouldn\'t do that if we felt that it contradicted our teachings. Interestingly enough, the Dead Sea Scrolls have actually demonstrated how many errors and changes have crept into the Bible as we have it. What came before should in fact be more truthful, since it should be more in tune with what God\'s servants actually did write instead of what people who translate the bible today THINK he meant.

Thanks you guys for turning this into a religion thing.

[Evi]

Job 38:26

Jesus is God. We believe that. Jesus has a Father. It\'s in the Bible several times. If Jesus has a Father, how is he God?

Mormons have a way of taking verses out of context.

It says Our image, yet it\'s followed by "So God created man in His own image"...

Also read John 1:1-5

And you can\'t possibly bring Jews into this, considering they don\'t believe Jesus is their savior.

Thanks you guys for turning this into a religion thing.

It just sort of happened.

No problem, although I didn\'t want it to be, I\'d rather the church not being portrayed as some weird non-Christian church.

[Evi]

I\'ll continue this discussion with you later. I have class tomorrow. Night!!

Yeah, thanks for posting that, in there it says that the Verb was with God and the verb was God.

That just helps me out more, thanks. Jesus is a God, but Jesus has a Father.

Who was Jesus Praying to in the Garden of Gethsamane? Who appeared to Him on the Mount of Transfiguration? Who was he talking to when he was on the Cross? Who was he thanking when he raised Lazarus from the dead? When he tells the apostles: "In my father\'s house" what father was he talking about? When Stephen saw Jesus Christ on the right hand of God as he was being stoned, why did he state Jesus Christ as being different from God?

Now we aren\'t even talking about Mormons anymore, I would say more churches that believe in the Bible believe that God and Jesus Christ are different personages with the same purpose: to bring about our salvation.

Dont use simple logic if you want to understand.

 Words describe only this world. They are human creations to describe experience on this delusive reality.  
 Since God or the true reality is something transcendental, something you can not experience the more you are attached to this reality, you can not use words the literal way to describe it.

[Titan]

I knew this was gonna happen. Normally I\'d jump in and back up the atheists but I\'m gonna stay out of this one. I do this enough at school and on other boards.

God in three forms, father, spirit, son

So out of that you think they are three seperate Gods?  Jesus was God in the flesh, and was constrained by human limitations (physically).  

If you have a hard time believing that all three of these forms are all the same God, then you aren\'t a Christian.

that\'s your opinion, but anything fare from fact.

Like I said, who was Jesus praying to in Mount Gethsamane? All the other references I mentioned, too. They all speak of different beings, not one being having three parts. For example, when Christ was baptized, God\'s voice said "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." and then the Holy Ghost descended in the form of a dove. Three different DISTINCT parts being present all at the same time.

Let\'s not make general sweeping comments like that, again, eh? I know that there are LOTS of Christian churches that believe in a Godhead like the Mormon church, 3 distinct beings all with the same purpose. Literally the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. I guess they aren\'t really Christians either. Reading the Bible objectively would be the only way to deduce a reasonable theory like that, but I guess that is too hard for some of you guys to do, since it is obvious that the shadow of doubt lies on there being a Godhead, not a Trinity for the reasons I have explained above. Unless, of course, you are calling Jesus Christ a schizofrenic for talking to himself, praying to himself, supplicating to himself, thanking himself, etc.