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Poll

How big is your sub? If you own more than one sub, list the biggest one.

maller than 6\"
0 (0%)
\"
0 (0%)
\"
3 (23.1%)
0\"
5 (38.5%)
2\"
1 (7.7%)
5\"
0 (0%)
6\"
0 (0%)
8\"
1 (7.7%)
igger than 18\"
0 (0%)
 don\'t have a subwoofer
3 (23.1%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Author Topic: How big is your subwoofer?  (Read 3974 times)

Offline THX
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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2006, 11:07:18 AM »
^ i\'m in danger of being included in that stereotype.  my audio system is worth more than the car its in. :ohnoes:

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Offline Samwise
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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2006, 12:31:07 PM »
Quote from: Paul2
who is forcing you to buy 18" sub as they are very expensive and not necessary for small bedroom or living room.  Who says 18" sub only have 60 Watts RMS amplifier?  
Duh. I was exaggerating. :)
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAPETIME!
(thanks Chizzy!)

Offline §ôµÏG®ïñD

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2006, 02:51:10 PM »
Quote from: Paul2
 I never said subwoofers are a type of speaker.  FatalXception said that, and later he said he made a typo.  scroll up and read what he wrote earlier.  Maybe I wrote big woofers are for handling small frequency while small woofers are for producing higher frequency...I guess I should have wrote tweeters there.  But isn\'t tweeter is a small type of woofer?  at least that what is looks like according to fatalXception link...

Maybe I didn\'t write clear enough to clarify what i am trying to say and my English is not that good as it\'s my 2nd language.

i know u never said they\'re a type of speaker, i did. Sub-woofers are a type of speaker. Tweeters aren\'t a type of woofer, they\'re a tweeter. Woofer = low freq levels basically sub to midrange.
 Read through your own post that had all the details on the image that had the freq scale for speakers. It wasn\'t just referring to sub-woofers. It was roughly going through the scales, from sub to tweeter.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2006, 03:03:40 PM by §ôµÏG®ïñD »
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Offline Paul2

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2006, 09:50:48 PM »
I see.

well, you are right that woofer is for handling low frequency, tweeter is for handling high frequency range.  But both are electroacoustic transducers, and you can say that a tweeter is a small type of woofer, or a woofer is a big type of tweeter...but that can gets confusing, so it\'s more terminology correct to differentiate the higher frequency, small size driver as tweeter and low frequency range, big size driver as woofer.

Like you can say a subwoofer is a type of speaker, but calling a subwoofer a speaker can get confusing too.  So, it\'s better to seperate the terminology between speaker and subwoofer.  As one is usualy refer to handle most of the full range frequency, while the other is to reproducing the bottom range of frequency...


Anyway, out of curiousity, what\'s the frequency response of your car subwoofer, and how much doesn\'t roll off?

Offline JBean
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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2006, 07:43:34 AM »
speaking of deep bass, I was at a chemical brothers concert a few years back and I swear.. It felt like I could hardly breathe on certain songs the bass was so deep.  They did this thing where they started the bass  really high pitched and the made the bass go deeper and deeper until you couldn\'t hear it anymore, only feel it.

Fucking incredible

Offline Evi

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2006, 11:09:30 AM »
Quote from: JBean
speaking of deep bass, I was at a chemical brothers concert a few years back and I swear.. It felt like I could hardly breathe on certain songs the bass was so deep.  They did this thing where they started the bass  really high pitched and the made the bass go deeper and deeper until you couldn\'t hear it anymore, only feel it.

Fucking incredible
I was in a movie theater in Vegas that had the same effect. During one of the movie company sequences there was this insane bass that you couldn\'t hear, but feel. Felt like my whole body went dumb. The theater had crazy speakers. I think it was in that horrible End of Days film.

Offline §ôµÏG®ïñD

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2006, 10:50:24 PM »
Quote from: Paul2
I see.

well, you are right that woofer is for handling low frequency, tweeter is for handling high frequency range.  But both are electroacoustic transducers, and you can say that a tweeter is a small type of woofer, or a woofer is a big type of tweeter...but that can gets confusing, so it\'s more terminology correct to differentiate the higher frequency, small size driver as tweeter and low frequency range, big size driver as woofer.

Like you can say a subwoofer is a type of speaker, but calling a subwoofer a speaker can get confusing too.  So, it\'s better to seperate the terminology between speaker and subwoofer.  As one is usualy refer to handle most of the full range frequency, while the other is to reproducing the bottom range of frequency...


Anyway, out of curiousity, what\'s the frequency response of your car subwoofer, and how much doesn\'t roll off?

speaker details,
 Nom impedance: 8ohms
- Power handling: 160watts RMS
- Frequency range: 29Hz - 2500Hz
- Sensitivity: 91dB 1watt 1metre
- Voice Coil Resistance (Re): 6.9ohms
- Resonant frequency (fs): 29Hz
- Mechanical Q factor (Qms): 7.632
- Electrical Q factor (Qes): 0.364
- Total Q factor (Qts): 0.347
- Equivalent Volume (Vas): 98Lt
- Cone Area (sq m): 0.0346

can\'t remember roll-off, 30s somewhere, 37hz if i remember right.
As for not calling a sub-woofer a speaker etc.  It\'s a speaker, simple. There\'s no saying its better to be called something else or whatever.  

[SIZE="2"]Speaker = electric signal turned into sound. [/size]

speaker also = loudspeaker.

Tweeter is a type of speaker, sub woofer is a type of speaker, Midrange is a type of speaker.  Woofers aren\'t tweeters, woofers are woofers, subwoofers to midrange are woofers. Woofer = bass level frequencies. Tweeters aren\'t a type of woofer. They\'re both types of speakers..
Think of it like a Geforce 6600GT card (bass) and a 6800GT card (tweeter) Both are GF6 family cards (speaker), but they act in different ways..

Heres a simple question for you, how do i find the figure out the litre size of a box i\'ve built?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2006, 11:54:22 PM by §ôµÏG®ïñD »
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Offline Paul2

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2006, 12:44:40 AM »
Quote from: §ôµÏG®ïñD
As for not calling a sub-woofer a speaker etc.  It\'s a speaker, simple. There\'s no saying its better to be called something else or whatever.
Subwoofer is part of a speaker, but again, it would be more terminology correct to call a subwoofer a subwoofer so it won\'t get confusing and misinterpretation.  For example, kind of like calling a bedroom a house.  Where the bedroom is part of a house, but a house have other things beside bedroom like bathroom, kitchen, living room, etc.

Same could be said about subwoofer and speaker.  A subwoofer is design to reproduce low frequency range while a speaker is design to reproduce all of the frequency range, except most can\'t do bass as deep as 30 Hz or lower, so a subwoofer is design for handling deeper bass only, but not the treble, and depends on the subwoofer, not the midrange either.


Quote
Tweeter is a type of speaker, sub woofer is a type of speaker, Midrange is a type of speaker.
Agreed.

Quote
Woofers aren\'t tweeters, woofers are woofers, subwoofers to midrange are woofers. Woofer = bass level frequencies. Tweeters aren\'t a type of woofer. They\'re both types of speakers..
both woofers and tweeters are drivers.  So, usually big size drivers that handle low frequency range are called woofer, while small size drivers are called tweeters that are for handling upper frequency range, such as treble.
So, I think woofers are a type of tweeters, and vice versa.  But again, it would be terminology correct to seperate them by calling the bass handling driver as woofers and the treble handling drivers as tweeters.  Midrange, this is where it gets tricky where some woofers can handle up to midrange while most tweeters can handle the midrange too...


Quote
Think of it like a Geforce 6600GT card (bass) and a 6800GT card (tweeter) Both are GF6 family cards (speaker), but they act in different ways..
Agreed.  Same could be said about loudspeakers and subwoofers.

Quote
Heres a simple question for you, how do i find the figure out the litre size of a box i\'ve built?
No idea as I am no engineer or speaker designer.  But that question kind of get me curious.  What is it?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 12:47:00 AM by Paul2 »

Offline §ôµÏG®ïñD

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2006, 03:25:17 AM »
Quote from: Paul2
Subwoofer is part of a speaker, but again, it would be more terminology correct to call a subwoofer a subwoofer so it won\'t get confusing and misinterpretation.
 See thats where you are getting it wrong. A subwoofer is a type of speaker. Not part of a speaker, it is used in a speaker enclosure. Then stores and retails refer to enclosures with speakers as a speaker. Just easier that way. You can debate with me all you want, but it\'s the way it is. Drivers and speakers are teh same thing. But they get put in enclosures and then called A speaker.  

Quote
For example, kind of like calling a bedroom a house.  Where the bedroom is part of a house, but a house have other things beside bedroom like bathroom, kitchen, living room, etc.
as i said above.
Quote
Same could be said about subwoofer and speaker.  A subwoofer is design to reproduce low frequency range while a speaker is design to reproduce all of the frequency range, except most can\'t do bass as deep as 30 Hz or lower, so a subwoofer is design for handling deeper bass only, but not the treble, and depends on the subwoofer, not the midrange either.


Again, you\'re talking about a subwoofer as if it\'s not a speaker. It is. It\'s simply a speaker designed for low frequencies.
Quote
both woofers and tweeters are drivers.  So, usually big size drivers that handle low frequency range are called woofer, while small size drivers are called tweeters that are for handling upper frequency range, such as treble.
So, I think woofers are a type of tweeters, and vice versa.  But again, it would be terminology correct to seperate them by calling the bass handling driver as woofers and the treble handling drivers as tweeters.  Midrange, this is where it gets tricky where some woofers can handle up to midrange while most tweeters can handle the midrange too...
 

Again, you\'re referring to your own interpretation of what they should be called, to what they are called. Drivers can be either part of a speaker, or referred to the entire speaker. Woofers and Tweeters are drivers, but they\'re not the same thing in terms of terms.
A woofer is ONLY low level frequencies, it does not refer to any high level frequencies drivers what so ever. Tweeters are the same, they refer to only high freq drivers, not low frequency drivers. I can\'t for the life of me understand why you can\'t fathom this.

Have you walked into a audio store and said to the store dood, what type of woofers do you have and he has lead you to the tweeter section?  don\'t think so!

Quote
No idea as I am no engineer or speaker designer.  But that question kind of get me curious.  What is it?

This is what i find amusing, i am designing speakers and cabs to match, anyway If i haven\'t replied to certain parts of your post its because you\'ve agreed or i can\'t be bothed.
To find litre size of a box its simply.
W*H*L in mm, Divide by 1 million.  Easy way to remember is 10cm x 10cm x 10cm = 1000 cm^3  = 1 litre. Remember that and you can use it for pretty much any square box. When there\'s angles, it\'s a little more involved. Which you can google for yourself.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 07:10:37 AM by §ôµÏG®ïñD »
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Offline Paul2

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2006, 12:21:08 PM »
Quote from: §ôµÏG®ïñD
See thats where you are getting it wrong. A subwoofer is a type of speaker. Not part of a speaker, it is used in a speaker enclosure. Then stores and retails refer to enclosures with speakers as a speaker. Just easier that way. You can debate with me all you want, but it\'s the way it is. Drivers and speakers are teh same thing. But they get put in enclosures and then called A speaker.
Let me try to get this straight up, so I should have said a subwoofer is a type of speaker, not part of a speaker.  There, happy now?


Quote
Again, you\'re talking about a subwoofer as if it\'s not a speaker. It is. It\'s simply a speaker designed for low frequencies.
Its like we both are saying the same thing over and over again.  A subwoofer is a speaker, but I like to called a subwoofer a subwoofer instead of a speaker.  I am getting tired of explaining why I prefer calling a subwoofer a subwoofer rather than calling it a speaker.

Quote
Again, you\'re referring to your own interpretation of what they should be called, to what they are called. Drivers can be either part of a speaker, or referred to the entire speaker. Woofers and Tweeters are drivers, but they\'re not the same thing in terms of terms.
A woofer is ONLY low level frequencies, it does not refer to any high level frequencies drivers what so ever. Tweeters are the same, they refer to only high freq drivers, not low frequency drivers. I can\'t for the life of me understand why you can\'t fathom this.
I can\'t understand either why you don\'t think a tweeter is a type of woofer or a woofer is a type of tweeter either...since you say you are a speaker designer, ask your coworkers if a woofer is a type of tweeter or vice versa, maybe we need a 3rd person thought on this one...

Quote
Have you walked into a audio store and said to the store dood, what type of woofers do you have and he has lead you to the tweeter section?  don\'t think so!
How about this, ask the guy in the audio store if you can buy a subwoofer and see if he shows you floorstanding speakers instead.


Quote
This is what i find amusing, i am designing speakers and cabs to match, anyway If i haven\'t replied to certain parts of your post its because you\'ve agreed or i can\'t be bothed.
To find litre size of a box its simply.
W*H*L in mm, Divide by 1 million.  Easy way to remember is 10cm x 10cm x 10cm = 1000 cm^3  = 1 litre. Remember that and you can use it for pretty much any square box. When there\'s angles, it\'s a little more involved. Which you can google for yourself.
I don\'t understand why is it amusing?  Honestly, I am kind of lost here between our disagreements too.

Nice math about a litre size of a box, not sure if this will be useful for me later in life as i am no speaker designer.  But its nice to know since that\'s quite easy math for me and I am a number cruncher.  So according to your math, is 1 litre = .001 cm?  What is this the purpose a litre if you don\'t mind me ask...

One last thing I been pondering, your said your current car sub have a frequency range of 29 Hz- 2,500 Hz, and without rolloff, your car sub can go down to around 37 Hz.  I want to know what was the frequency range of your previous car sub before and or after roll off too.  Just curious to see the difference between your two car subwoofers...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 12:25:20 PM by Paul2 »

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2006, 05:06:07 PM »
Quote from: Paul2
Let me try to get this straight up, so I should have said a subwoofer is a type of speaker, not part of a speaker.  There, happy now?



Its like we both are saying the same thing over and over again.  A subwoofer is a speaker, but I like to called a subwoofer a subwoofer instead of a speaker.  I am getting tired of explaining why I prefer calling a subwoofer a subwoofer rather than calling it a speaker.


I can\'t understand either why you don\'t think a tweeter is a type of woofer or a woofer is a type of tweeter either...since you say you are a speaker designer, ask your coworkers if a woofer is a type of tweeter or vice versa, maybe we need a 3rd person thought on this one...


How about this, ask the guy in the audio store if you can buy a subwoofer and see if he shows you floorstanding speakers instead.



I don\'t understand why is it amusing?  Honestly, I am kind of lost here between our disagreements too.

Nice math about a litre size of a box, not sure if this will be useful for me later in life as i am no speaker designer.  But its nice to know since that\'s quite easy math for me and I am a number cruncher.  So according to your math, is 1 litre = .001 cm?  What is this the purpose a litre if you don\'t mind me ask...

One last thing I been pondering, your said your current car sub have a frequency range of 29 Hz- 2,500 Hz, and without rolloff, your car sub can go down to around 37 Hz.  I want to know what was the frequency range of your previous car sub before and or after roll off too.  Just curious to see the difference between your two car subwoofers...


Can\'t remember the other car sub specs. But if you know anything about car audio you\'d know that boot space itself effects responce.  As for you still referring to a tweeter as a woofer, it\'s still wrong, simply put its like calling a ford a holden. There both cars, but 2 different companies.  

The terminology of woofer was made for low bass drivers, not tweeters. I\'m not gonna bother to ask any of my work mates or even teachers at school this since these are the people that taught me.  You can believe what ever you want. Dictionary backs me up.   I know if i asked for a subwoofer i\'d get subwoofers, what part of this thread did i debate otherwise?   we aren\'t debating this, we are debating your retarded idea that a woofer is generally any type of speaker.

The litre size refers to the litre size the driver needs for proper responce, to little or to much you end up with loads of problems, cone can\'t move properly, port noise if you have a vented cab etc, which in the end creates crappy sound. wtf did u pull .001cm from?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 05:11:51 PM by §ôµÏG®ïñD »
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Offline Paul2

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2006, 05:55:23 PM »
Quote from: §ôµÏG®ïñD
As for you still referring to a tweeter as a woofer, it\'s still wrong, simply put its like calling a ford a holden. There both cars, but 2 different companies.
 
I still don\'t get it.

Quote
The terminology of woofer was made for low bass drivers, not tweeters.
Duh.  I never said tweeters are made for low bass drivers.  Both tweeters and woofers are drivers.  Except, small size drivers are usually refers as tweeters for handling midrange to treble while big size drivers are usually refers to as woofers for handling mainly bass.  So, basically, what i mean is a tweeter can be consider woofer because they are drivers.  I also said that is it terminology correct to called big size drivers that handle bass woofer, and small size driver that hande the upper frequency range as tweeters.  Doesn\'t mean it\'s terminology correct to call tweeters as woofers.  Hence, tweeters and woofers are use to differentiate between the two.  Unless that I am wrong that tweeter and woofers aren\'t made of the same drivers....


Quote
I know if i asked for a subwoofer i\'d get subwoofers, what part of this thread did i debate otherwise?   we aren\'t debating this, we are debating your retarded idea that a woofer is generally any type of speaker.
Because you said a subwoofer is a type of speakers, so if you ask the guy in the audio store to get a subwoofer, he of course will shows you a subwoofer instead of speakers even though a subwoofer is a type of speaker..you know what, suddenly i am more confused than ever.

Edited and Added:  wait, I remember now.  The word I am trying to say is "specific."  Speakers are more general usuage.  If you asked for a subwoofer, you are asking for a specific type of speaker.  while if you asked for a speaker, the guy will just shows you the loudspeakers section instead of the subwoofers section even though a subwoofer is a type of speakers.  Same could be said about tweeters and woofers which are more specific than asking for drivers.  Again, what i mean when i say is a woofer is a type of tweeter even though they are not terminology correct is because they are basically the same drivers with different size and handling different frequency.  One works for bass while other works for treble.  Same thing about subwoofer where is only works for bass while the speakers use both woofers, and tweeters to work both treble and bass...is my explanation confusing?

Quote
The litre size refers to the litre size the driver needs for proper responce, to little or to much you end up with loads of problems, cone can\'t move properly, port noise if you have a vented cab etc, which in the end creates crappy sound. wtf did u pull .001cm from?
i divided by 1 million like you said then i got .001...now i realize you wrote mm and i am getting more confused...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 06:08:46 PM by Paul2 »

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2006, 08:01:03 PM »
Quote from: Paul2
I still don\'t get it.
So, basically, what i mean is a tweeter can be consider woofer because they are drivers.  I also said that is it terminology correct to called big size drivers that handle bass woofer, and small size driver that hande the upper frequency range as tweeters.  Doesn\'t mean it\'s terminology correct to call tweeters as woofers.  Hence, tweeters and woofers are use to differentiate between the two.  Unless that I am wrong that tweeter and woofers aren\'t made of the same drivers....
Tweeters and woofers are made from drivers, just bigger and smaller ones yes, But the TERMINOLOGY for tweeter refers only to high frequency drivers, and woofers = bass. There\'s no way of saying they are teh same thing, yes, they\'re both drivers. But calling a tweeter the same thing as a woofer is wrong. Not because they\'re the same driver, but because the words themselves reflect different scales in the driver range. I wish you\'d just accept this and stop saying they can both be concided woofers.


Quote
Because you said a subwoofer is a type of speakers, so if you ask the guy in the audio store to get a subwoofer, he of course will shows you a subwoofer instead of speakers even though a subwoofer is a type of speaker..you know what, suddenly i am more confused than ever.
 i know, i\'m not debating this for the 10x time.  But calling a tweeter a woofer isn\'t like calling a speaker a subwoofer. It\'s like calling a subwoofer and tweeter.   All of which are speakers..  Like i said early, the reason why people call speakers a speaker when they\'re inclosed isn\'t because they have all the ranges. It\'s just easier to call it a speaker then a cabinet with speakers.
Quote

Edited and Added:  wait, I remember now.  The word I am trying to say is "specific."  Speakers are more general usuage.  If you asked for a subwoofer, you are asking for a specific type of speaker.  while if you asked for a speaker, the guy will just shows you the loudspeakers section instead of the subwoofers section even though a subwoofer is a type of speakers.  Same could be said about tweeters and woofers which are more specific than asking for drivers.  Again, what i mean when i say is a woofer is a type of tweeter even though they are not terminology correct is because they are basically the same drivers with different size and handling different frequency.  One works for bass while other works for treble.  Same thing about subwoofer where is only works for bass while the speakers use both woofers, and tweeters to work both treble and bass...is my explanation confusing?  
 

nope, just flawed. Agian you\'re referring the terminology as the same thing, when they\'re not. The terminology is for 2 different types of drivers. But a woofer is ONLY referred to low freq level.

If you were to ask, what products do you have in high level frequencies. They\'d take you to the tweeter section, if you were to say low, they\'d take you  to the bass section.  Now, replace high level with tweeter, and low level with sub and you may understand that the terms refer to different driver ranges. Not the same ranges.
Thats all the terminology refers too, so calling a tweeter a woofer is wrong. It\'s like saying a High level freq device is the same as a low level one. You can not call a tweeter a woofer because simply its not a low frequency high frequency device is it.  We are saying the same thing, but your referring to the terminologies as the drivers themselves. When it refers to ranges, not drivers.

Think of it like this, you calling woofers and tweeters woofers is like calling running and walking the same thing,  in both you move your legs in similar ways, the process is the same, and they get your somewhere, but they\'re 2 different things.

here\'s another way to understand it.   Woofer = low freq driver.    Tweeter = high freq driver. But don\'t confuse the word woofer and tweeter as another name for driver. They are only referring to the freq level that the driver can respond to.  
are you understanding yet?  theres no way to call a tweeter the same thing as a subwoofer. Yes there both drivers, but a woofer isn\'t a tweeter and a tweeter isn\'t a woofer..  

If you\'re not getting this please don\'t reply with massive replies, i can\'t be f@#ked explain something thats a  first week course outlay in audio to someone who doesn\'t want to listen.

Quote
i divided by 1 million like you said then i got .001...now i realize you wrote mm and i am getting more confused...
mm = millimetres.  100mm per 1cm.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 08:13:18 PM by §ôµÏG®ïñD »
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Offline THX
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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2006, 09:35:26 PM »
There\'s a question that\'s been on my mind lately: Is Soulgrind just trying to destabilize the already volatile social fabric that he purportedly aims to save? I mean, I cannot, in good conscience, step aside and let repressive misogynists destroy our sense of safety in the places we ordinarily imagine we can flee to. Here\'s a quick review: He has found a way to avoid compliance with government regulations, circumvent any further litigation, and ridicule the accomplishments of generations of great men and women -- all by trumping up a phony emergency. Aside from the fact that there is a certain Burkean prudence that animates people like me to encourage individuals to come out of their cocoons and flourish, I am shocked and angered by his stentorian improprieties. Such shameful conduct should never be repeated.

The absurdity of Soulgrind\'s ultimata did not dawn on me until I realized that Soulgrind serves as a conduit that carries the élan vital of insurrectionism. Period, finis, and Q.E.D. From a public-policy perspective, the hour is late indeed. Fortunately, it\'s not yet too late to say "no" to his yawping theories.

In the past, it was perfectly clear to everyone with insight and without malice that Soulgrind displays the paranoid malice that is the hallmark of true defeatism. Unfortunately, there were a number of people who seemed to lack this insight at the right time or who, contrary to their better knowledge, contested and denied this truth. I\'ve heard him say that there should be publicly financed centers of tribalism. Was that just a slip of the lip or is Soulgrind secretly trying to don the mantel of anarchism and twist the truth? He doesn\'t want you to know the answer to that question; he wants to ensure you don\'t tell him where he can stick it. In other words, it would be a work of supererogation to speak out against reckless boeotians at a time when every week there transpires news of obdurate sciolists following Soulgrind\'s orders to encumber the religious idea with too many things of a purely earthly nature and thus bring religion into a totally unnecessary conflict with science. Still, I recommend you check out some of his pleas and draw your own conclusions on the matter. Soulgrind\'s publicity stunts have merged with fascism in several interesting ways. Both spring from the same kind of reality-denying mentality. Both take us all on a completely reckless ride into the unknown. And both scapegoat easy, unpopular targets, thereby diverting responsibility from more culpable parties.

You may balk at this, but Soulgrind is capable of passing very rapidly from a hidden enjoyment of unscrupulous charlatanism to a proclaimed attachment to careerism and back -- and back again. But the problems with Soulgrind\'s antics don\'t end there. He says that prudish ragamuffins and directionless sad sacks should rule this country. That\'s a stupid thing to say. It\'s like saying that you and I are inferior to backwards, bloodthirsty power brokers. I may not believe that Soulgrind\'s politics are good for the environment, human rights, and baby seals, but I surely do maintain that even when the facts don\'t fit, he sometimes tries to use them anyway. He still maintains, for instance, that genocide, slavery, racism, and the systematic oppression, degradation, and exploitation of most of the world\'s people are all absolutely justified.

No one can deny that investigators who have spent many years attempting to penetrate the dark recesses of Soulgrind\'s phlegmatic underworld frequently conclude that I would certainly be surprised if Soulgrind stopped to communicate and share ideas with even one of the people he regularly attacks, yet Soulgrind has been trying hard to protect what has become a lucrative racket for him. Unfortunately, that lucrative racket has a hard-to-overlook consequence: it will attack the fabric of this nation by next weekend. To Soulgrind\'s mind, the world\'s salvation comes from whims, irrationality, and delusions. So that means that he has his moral compass in tact, right? No, not right. The truth is that my dream is for tired eyes to open and see clearly, broken spirits to find new energy, and weary arms to find the strength to disentangle people from the snares set by Soulgrind and his acolytes. His allies are not, technically, intransigent, malicious phonies, but rather self-absorbed hoodlums. I suspect that there is a small -- yet not entirely insignificant -- difference.

I unmistakably believe that we should make this world a kinder, gentler place, and I have formalized my commitment to this high ideal by ensuring that I always make an impartial and well-informed evaluation of the advantages and disadvantages of Soulgrind\'s disquisitions. I know more about antidisestablishmentarianism than most people. You might even say that I\'m an expert on the subject. I can therefore state with confidence that my current plan is to give Soulgrind a rhadamanthine warning not to keep us hypnotized so we don\'t discuss the programmatic foundations of his bad-tempered revenge fantasies in detail. Yes, Soulgrind will draw upon the most powerful fires of Hell to tear that plan asunder, but if I didn\'t sincerely believe that what he seems to be forgetting is that I unequivocally disagree with his sordid excuses, then I wouldn\'t be writing this letter. Mankind needs to do more to supply the missing ingredient that could stop the worldwide slide into sesquipedalianism. Understand, I am not condemning mankind for not doing enough; I am merely stating that I\'m at loggerheads with Soulgrind on at least one important issue. Namely, he argues that he is a model citizen. I take the opposite position, that I receive a great deal of correspondence from people all over the world. And one of the things that impresses me about it is the massive number of people who realize that Soulgrind says that without his superior guidance, we will go nowhere. What balderdash! What impudence! What treachery! Just wait until someone gets hurt as a result of Soulgrind\'s writings. Then, more people will agree that he cannot tolerate the world as it is. He needs to live in a world of fantasies. To be more specific, Soulgrind\'s a pretty good liar most of the time. However, he tells so many lies, he\'s bound to trip himself up someday.

Regardless of what Soulgrind seems to think, I am quite certain that telling the truth is too much trouble for nit-picky fickle-types bent on getting their way. Did he cancel his plans to replace Robert\'s Rules of Order with "facilitated consensus building" at all important meetings because he had a change of heart, or is he continuing the same battle on another front? It would appear to be the latter. If his tirades get any more hideous, I expect they\'ll grow legs and attack me in my sleep.

I believe, way deep down, that only through education can individuals gain the independent tools they need to celebrate knowledge and truth for the sake of knowledge and truth. But the first step is to acknowledge that I am deliberately using colorful language in this letter. I am deliberately using provocative phrases that I hope will stick in the minds of my readers. I do ensure, however, that my words are always appropriate and accurate and clearly explain how Soulgrind assigns blame to everyone but himself. Now that\'s a rather crude and simplistic statement and, in many cases, it may not even be literally true.

All of these things are related: narcissism, Soulgrind\'s bait-and-switch tactics, and the general breakdown of our society. I\'ll even tell you how they\'re related. It\'s really very simple. In essence, Soulgrind is typical of pea-brained, profligate barrators in his wild invocations to the irrational, the magic, and the fantastic to dramatize his fulminations.

I guess what I really mean to say is that you probably know exactly what I mean. To cap that off, one of the great mysteries of modern life is, Why doesn\'t Soulgrind point a critical finger at himself for a change? In classic sophist fashion, I ask another question in reply: Why does Soulgrind insist on boring holes in the hull of the boat in which he himself is also a passenger? I\'ll tell you what I think the answer is. I can\'t prove it, but if I\'m correct, events soon will prove me right. I think that I\'ve tried explaining to Soulgrind\'s satraps that Soulgrind\'s exploitative lapdogs exert themselves to muddy the water, obfuscate the record, and cover up, by sophistries and denials, all of Soulgrind\'s illiberal contretemps. Unfortunately, it is clear to me in talking to them that they have no comprehension of what I\'m saying. I might as well be talking to creatures from Mars. In fact, I\'d bet Martians would be more likely to discern that in a recent essay. Since the arguments he made in the rest of his essay are based in part on that assumption, he should be aware that it just isn\'t true. Not only that, but he wants you to believe that granting him complete control over our lives is as important as breathing air. You should be wary of such claims. Be aware! Be skeptical! Think! Do not be diverted, deceived, or mesmerized by Soulgrind\'s intrusive double standards. Someone has to be willing to debunk the nonsense spouted by Soulgrind\'s subordinates. Even if it\'s not polite to do so. Even if it hurts a lot of people\'s feelings. Even if everyone else is pretending that Soulgrind has mystical powers of divination and prophecy. It\'s considerations of this sort that make it worth our while to learn about the oligophrenic things he is up to. I put that observation into this letter just to let you see that in these days of political correctness and the changing of how history is taught in schools to fulfill a particular agenda, if you ever ask him to do something, you can bet that your request will get lost in the shuffle, unaddressed, ignored, and rebuffed. The end.

\"i thought america alreay had been in the usa??? i know it was in australia and stuff.\"
-koppy *MEMBER KOPKING FANCLUB*
\"I thought japaneses where less idiot than americans....\" -Adan
\"When we can press a button to transport our poops from our colon to the toilet, I\'ll be impressed.\" -Gman

Offline §ôµÏG®ïñD

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How big is your subwoofer?
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2006, 08:41:14 AM »
WTF!!!  where\'d u fill my name in?  what site was it?
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