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Author Topic: How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?  (Read 8271 times)

Offline ddaryl
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2000, 10:45:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GmanJoe
Can a 733mhz chip handle a game like Dynasty Warriors 2? One square kilometer game environment, 30 characters on the screen and still process the fights among the other 1000 or more characters in the battle field?

I heard about Oddworld being an exclusive title for the X-box because of it graphical prowess. Is this something for Sony to worry about?



I think Sony\'s EE will shine in some situations, large enviroments, physics and gameplay elements, but XBox and Gamecube do have grpahic chips that remove some of the work from the processor

Should SOny worry, of course, it\'ll also push them to be better.

Will it destroy SOny or the PS2 naw, Sony just needs to get the production lines moving, there are plenty of quality games come around the bend to keep th emasses interested



Offline Unicron!
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2000, 04:56:55 AM »
Yes.
The PS2 is more powerfull and its mostly underestimated than overestimated.
Critics about PS2 started in the launch games and generally firts gen games.Its still early for developers to show the PS2 capabilities while it they are not used to its hardware yet.
Imaging having the most powerfull weapon in the world but you dont know how to use it yet because you havent read the manual.Does it mean its not that powerfull?Hell no.
The same happens with the PS2.

Offline nO-One

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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2000, 11:21:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
Quote
Originally posted by animal_mother1
Yep. MHZ isn\'t power anymore. The Xbox may be faster in PC standards, but EE is probably the most powefull chip known to man.



Well no. The deck Alpha is.. Its worth around $10.000 dollers.  [/B]


pffft Alpha I want IBM\'s p4(Power.4 not pentium)those things are friggin impressive......I\'l go find a link to the specs.

Ohh and if you remember the rumor about some addon pack maybe it was an addon the the GS not the EE.A little extra processing power that the GS could use so it wouldn.t have to use the EE.
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Offline Mr. Kennedy
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2000, 11:26:04 AM »
I like the g4 cube by apple :D
\"In the last 12 months 100,000 private sector jobs have been lost and yet you\'ve created 30,000 public sector jobs. Prime Minister, you cannot carry on forever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecidented engorgement of the unproductive bit. You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt.\" - Daniel Hannan

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Offline nO-One

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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2000, 03:45:03 PM »
Yes it\'s great.But wait till January we should be seeing some interesting stuff from Apple.
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Offline Dr Yassam
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2000, 09:12:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by nO-One
Think of it this way.
At 1.Ghz an P3 manages about 1,3gigaflops in floating point calculations. Whereas the EE at 300Mhz manages about 6,4gigaflops.That is alot of processing power that little black box has.


Hmmm, I\'m not sure where you got that info from, but it\'s common knowledge that the EE has about 3 times the floating point power of a PIII-500, or 2 times the power of a PIII-700. That gives it the processing power of a 1.5Ghz P3.

However, it must be remembered that the figure of 6.4Gflops on the EE is the collective power of it\'s general purpose FPU and two vector units all working in parallel (each vector unit has roughly the processing power of a PIII-600).

[Edited by Dr Yassam on 12-10-2000 at 12:17 PM]

Offline AjT004
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2000, 10:35:49 AM »
This article right here is also from Arstechnica but it is not the same one as posted above.  It is not the "Technical Overview."  This article is on this exact topic, PS2 VS PC.  Very interesting read if you\'re interested.  It\'s at...
http://arstechnica.com/cpu/2q00/ps2/ps2vspc-1.html

Offline Dr Yassam
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2000, 11:31:14 AM »
Thanks. :)

Offline Mr. Kennedy
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2000, 01:09:40 PM »
the power of ps2 is actually greater than that of a computers!!!

Note: In some areas...
\"In the last 12 months 100,000 private sector jobs have been lost and yet you\'ve created 30,000 public sector jobs. Prime Minister, you cannot carry on forever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecidented engorgement of the unproductive bit. You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt.\" - Daniel Hannan

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Offline Dr Yassam
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2000, 06:50:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SyxxKorn
I like the g4 cube by apple :D


Very nice machines, unfortunately the G3/G4 processors are overrated and expensive. :(

Offline nO-One

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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2000, 01:29:54 PM »
Well maybe but remember thay have a much much lower pipeline that x86 processors+they have a risc arcitecture.
But Motorola hasn\'t really been doing it\'s job properly.It would be a dream come true if Mot would license it\'s AltiVec engine to IBM so they could use their superior Fab and their SOI technoligy.
But we will have to wait until January we sould be seeing higher clock speeds for the good\'ol G4 :)
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Offline ReverendXbox
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2000, 03:01:33 PM »
Well, it seems everyone is dancing around the real answer and giving you half of an answer.  So, the Reverend will provide you with the whole truth.  In short, the EE will kick any Pentium\'s ass when it comes to 3D graphics.  Why?  Well, the EE was built from the ground up to process massive 3D graphics.  However, when it comes to running business applications, the Pentium\'s kick the EE\'s ass.  The truth is that the EE is like a fish out of water when processing business apps and the PIII is like a fish out of water when it comes to 3D graphics.  Can the EE run business apps?  Sure, but it will do no better than a x486 processor (to you younguns, that\'s before the Pentium I ).  Can the PIII run 3D graphics? Sure, but not better than the EE.  

The Emotion Engine is an awesome chip and it\'s power has yet to be fully tapped.  However, one cannot assume that just because the Xbox uses a Pentium III that it won\'t be as powerful or much more powerful than the PS2.  The fact is that the PIII isn\'t the "star" of the Xbox.  The NV2A is.  That\'s where the bulk of Xbox\'s massive specs are coming from.  This is no mere Graphics Accelerator like the PS2\'s GS, this is a full blown Graphics Procesing Unit (GPU).  This puppy does it\'s own job and it does it better than anything else.  So, I don\'t know whether the guy that started this topic wanted to compare the PIII to the EE directly or compare the Xbox to the PS2 by means of the PIII and EE.  For the former, the EE wins hands down, but for the latter a comparison is useless since the PIII won\'t be the work-horse of the Xbox like the EE is for the PS2.  If you wanna compare chips, let\'s have some fun with the EE vs. the NV2A.  Then we\'ll have a firm grip on the strengths and weaknesses of both platforms.

As far as developers getting the hang of the EE, it\'s not like having a sophisticated weapon and not reading the manual...it\'s like having a sophisticated weapon and no manual at all.  Two different beasts, my friends.  You see, I\'m a firm believer that two 32-bit chips are more powerful than one.  Won\'t you agree? Well, that was the case with the Sega Saturn.  You see, the power was there, but it\'s just that no one knew how to use it.  The trick was not getting the full power of the processors, the problem was getting those dual Hitachi SH-2\'s to work in parallel.  That was a bitch for developers.  If the developers had given it time, the Saturn would have exceeded the PSX in graphics.  It had more power and it had more RAM, so of course it should have.  However, this is the key point, with the PSX easier to develop for and it\'s CPU and Geometry Engine easily accessible, they went the path of least resistance.  The question I\'m raising is a legitimate one: Will developers want to struggle to untap PS2\'s potential once they have two more powerful and easier systems to work on?  In light of the shipping difficulties and the meager software sales, will developers devote their time and money in something that\'s not such a sure thing anymore?  

The PS2\'s potential is awesome.  So was the Saturn\'s.  I\'m not comparing both systems, but it\'s really unnatural for developers to be busting their butts and wallets on harder, less powerful hardware.  It just doesn\'t make sense to me.  Maybe Kojima-san and Naughty Dog will surprise and impress me, maybe they\'ll be some break-throughs in the future.  Maybe.  I fell in love the EE when I first saw it, but then I realized that what seemed like a huge step forward was really a jump backwards.  I\'m coming from a RISC background and the EE is a representative of the RISC processor.  However it defies the RISC philosophy!  It\'s supposed to be small and fast, with a simple instruction-set.  However, that was sacrificed for more power.  I expected this kind of thing from Intel or AMD, not Sony.  Enough of my bitchin\', I hope developers won\'t get discouraged when GC and Xbox come around.    
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Offline nO-One

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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2000, 03:11:00 PM »
Well they won\'t get discoureged Sony will make sure of that.The psx/ps.2 are very important to Sony so we can be sure the Ps.2 won\'t pull a Saturn on us :)
The X-Box/GC will also be awesome.I\'ll get the ps.2 for sure and maybe the X-Box not sure about the GC though.
Your right when you said the EE will kick the p3\'s behind when it comes to 3d graphics and your right to a sertein point about multimedia programs and such.But you have to remember that the heart of the EE is a MIPS.III chip and it is more powerful than the p3.But Sony did strip the proc down they disposed of all they considered unnecessesary so they could max out the 3d calculations.
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Offline Heretic
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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2000, 07:23:48 PM »
Just hearsay but the Saturn was said to be hard to program for period. The same hurdles no matter what software libraries they came out with. As you say Rev, it remains to be seen if it will be a similar/same case for the PS2. Personally I\'m satisfied with seeing just ten times better [graphics]than the PSX. So far no developer has complained about working extra hard just to get that. Future goodies will be just icing on the cake if you ask me.

Anyway Rev, maybe you can help me with this one:

Quote
Originally posted by ProfessorX
Everything is going to fed directly to the GPU and not by the PIII therefore your bottleneck there is removed.  In the PC the PIII has to feed it because of the way it handles information.


Now is this just a bunch of happy horse pucky or what? If anyone here can clear this one up it should be ReverendXbox. As far as I know the GPU has to get the numbers to crunch from the CPU and send the sipherin\' results back for the CPU to stream. Is that ol\' bottleneck really broken somehow?  Inquiring minds want to know! Really!

p.s. I do think Xbox graphics will be better than PS2\'s eventual best, just not a whole lot better.




[Edited by Heretic on 12-12-2000 at 12:24 AM]

Offline SonyFan
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How does the Emotion Engine compare to a PC chip?
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2000, 08:25:26 PM »
"The PS2\'s potential is awesome. So was the Saturn\'s. I\'m not comparing both systems, but it\'s really unnatural for developers to be busting their butts and wallets on harder, less powerful hardware." - RevX

Well, this is just hearsay since I don\'t have any actual proof or data to back me up, but I remember hearing that developers HAD to use all of the Saturn\'s processors in order to get a game to work right. That was the bitch. With the PS2, developers can (And have) developed entire games without using the vector units at all. However, doing that cripples the PS2 since it wasn\'t designed to have games using only the GS & EE without the vector units. The PS2 was designed with a specific programming philosophy in mind, and it\'s that new philosophy that\'s confusing developers. Even simple ideas like Texture Streaming, which has been discussed in detail since shortly after the PS2\'s Japaneese launch is only now being picked up by some developers. IGN ran an interview with the developers of MDK just a month ago. In that interview, they stated that they are just NOW picking up on the texture streaming idea. So much for staying on the cutting edge, eh?

Anyhow, there is one BIG difference between the Saturn and the PS2 in regards to developer support. The Saturn was a one generation archetecture philosophy. Why put the time and money into it, when by the time you make your cash back, the cycle is starting again? Sony\'s PS2 archecture, on the other hand, is currently slated as the basis for the the next 3 Playstations. In essence, it\'s now it\'s own platform. Time spent learning how to program for the PS2, is also time spent familiarizing yourself with the basic structures of 15 years worth of Playstation consoles. (According to Sony\'s current 20 year buisness model, which also included the PSOne. PSOne was of a different archetecture since at the time it was unknown weither or not the endevor would be profitable.)

As long as Sony continues at least a moderate level of success with the Playstation brand, the money developers sink into the PS2 now is more like an investment into the future, rather than five year waste of time.
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