ITS OFFICIAL PS2 WINS

well it looks like the debate is almost over. If x-box keeps changing their specs, like i read, their losing ground quickly. They was the only one to even come close to PS2 in any catagory and its looking mighty dim for them. Dreamcast was never even close(enough said)and game cube well they just about have 3rd place wrapped up. It looks as though all the recounts are in and PS2 is offically the best console in the world. FACT!

Originally posted by koolkev
well it looks like the debate is almost over. If x-box keeps changing their specs, like i read, their losing ground quickly. They was the only one to even come close to PS2 in any catagory and its looking mighty dim for them. Dreamcast was never even close(enough said)and game cube well they just about have 3rd place wrapped up. It looks as though all the recounts are in and PS2 is offically the best console in the world. FACT!

All I have to say is E3 baby.  Everyone will show there guns.

So what if they dropped the GPU from 300MHz to 250Mhz, its still more powerful than PS2.  AVG25 right, at E3 we will see which console is the best.

Originally posted by koolkev
well it looks like the debate is almost over. If x-box keeps changing their specs, like i read, their losing ground quickly. They was the only one to even come close to PS2 in any catagory and its looking mighty dim for them. Dreamcast was never even close(enough said)and game cube well they just about have 3rd place wrapped up. It looks as though all the recounts are in and PS2 is offically the best console in the world. FACT!

It\'s official! We have a psychic! :rolleyes:

I laugh at your logic, its not realy logic at all. If your going to make a conclusion like that you have to ahve a compeletely solid base of logic covering all aspects of the situation. In this casing doing so is virtualy impossible, you would have to acount for every transistor, every third party developer, every consumer and the creative proccess of the people making comercials while taking into acount the possibility of an unrelated force intervening such as a natural disaster destroying a production faciltiy crucial to a console and stopping production for a few years. You have done no such thing, you have said that because MS changed a couple of specs, which were tenative to begin with, to slightly lowr numbers that are still bigger thant he PS2\'s the PS2 is going to be the best. You totaly disregard Gamecube and give it third place, I\'m not even sure if you mean behind the XBox or the PS2. You say the Xbox is the only console that came close to the Ps2 is any category, are you drunk? The Gamecube and the XBox are better than the PS2 in almost every category, never mind not as good, the dreamcast is close to the PS2 in many categories as well, better in a few. Dreamcast is allready sold more than any of the other consoles, its far from dead. It almost asuradly won\'t dominate but its still a force. You didn\'t even try and be reasonable, your not making this statement as an opinion, your saying right in the topic that its official, that somehow because you said it these companies have to conform to your belives. Sorry, but I\'m not buying it.

[BizioEE]

I guess you\'re all joking...I can\'t believe what I\'m reading...
GameCube and X-Box are better than PS2 in almost all the aspects? Have you seen one game running in real-time on both consoles?...The answer is NO!...Have you seen what PS2 can really do?...the answer is NO!! Your opinion,Underwhelming Force,is: "DC is close to the PS2 in several aspects...",my opinion is: "PS2,when fully pushed,blows away the DC in all the aspects"...as you can see...it\'s only a matter of opinions(by now) and I\'m confident that time will prove my point...

"The PS2 is a three-processor system. It\'s actually an incredibly complicated system. Basically you have the CPU, which is the same processor that everybody has had before, but it\'s a lot more powerful, and it\'s got two co-processors, VU-0 and VU-1, which are extremely powerful linked co-processors, that work with the CPU.

"Here\'s a parable for you. Let\'s take two executives: Executive one is a straight processor with a single CPU. It has no assistance whatsoever. He has three projects to do. He has to work on them one at a time and he has to do all of the work, with no one else to shove all the work off to. He has to do the work himself.

"Now lets take executive two, he\'s a PS2 development kit. He\'s got his main processor, his brain, which he can use to do the hard parts, and he\'s got this incredibly efficient secretary, who types like a bat out of hell, and an incredibly quick researcher on the other side, who can do research like no one before. So instead of going to the dictionary every time you need to look up a word, he sends that off to his assistant. And then he can spend his time on something else. Instead of actually typing what he is doing, he says to his assistant, \'here\'s what I want you to type,\' and he or she goes off and types it. This executive is going to win, right? Because all he does is what he\'s best at. He doesn\'t have to do the menial labor, he can kick that off to his assistants.

"This is very similar to the PS2. The CPU is not as fast as the VUs, in doing things like setting up your polygons and getting ready to draw. With first generation games it is very difficult to program to take advantage of these things. These developers basically skipped the VU, and they did something really simple, and the VUs are essentially sitting around doing nothing. Dumb.

"If you don\'t use the two VUs, the PS2 looks like a super powerful Dreamcast. But once you get the VUs in, the Dreamcast looks like a powerful PlayStation, and the PS2 will look like the next generation. It is inevitable. Programmers will learn about these things, and they will learn how to us them. As soon as they see somebody else getting away with 10 times more power than they are using, if they don\'t know how to use the VUs, you better believe they\'re going to learn. It\'s the same thing that happened with the PlayStation, it simply matters even more now with PS2...

and the problem with RAM?
When it comes to texture RAM, you can never have enough," said one producer. "With PS2, it\'s just a quantum leap. Going from the 2MB PlayStation to the 32MB PlayStation2, it\'s just amazing. So we\'re finding that it\'s like any console, it\'s challenging to maximize what you can get from it, but even our earliest prototype work with it, we\'ve been really impressed and happy with what we have been able to get out of it. We\'re very plugged into the PS2 development community and have a lot of friends from different companies, and there is no one who is working on a game who\'s *****ing and moaning about its lack of capabilities. I mean, with texture RAM, even if you doubled it, it still wouldn\'t be enough.
"The drive is so fast that you can stream your textures off the DVD or CD that as long as you construct your game well, and as long as you\'re not stupid as to how you construct it, you can stream anything you need. Which isn\'t to say that what you load into memory a lot of times is chicken feed. It\'s not, but there are a lot of techniques to deal with RAM on PS2."
 
I\'m not saying that GameCube and X-Box won\'t produce better graphics than PS2,but only that we have to wait before writing foolishnesses(I\'m the first who was wrong...but now I\'m trying to write only what I really think...),and Damn...
what does it matter to you if PS2 will or won\'t win the console-War? Do you like Mario and Zelda like me? Great,let\'s buy a GameCube to play them!! or any other console with Great Games!(...The Indrema L600?...I\'m so curious,it\'s really an interesting piece of Hardware!)

Let\'s Wait and See!!!:)

[Living-In-Clip]

Originally posted by Soul Reaver

Originally posted by koolkev
well it looks like the debate is almost over. If x-box keeps changing their specs, like i read, their losing ground quickly. They was the only one to even come close to PS2 in any catagory and its looking mighty dim for them. Dreamcast was never even close(enough said)and game cube well they just about have 3rd place wrapped up. It looks as though all the recounts are in and PS2 is offically the best console in the world. FACT!

It\'s official! We have a psychic! :rolleyes: [/B]

Apparently, Soul..Apparently.

I guess we should be excited or something.

:rolleyes:

it\'s all about the games.  There is no x-box, and there is no game cube.  What you have is PS2 and DC.  Both are winners.  What ever system you own, if you are happy with the system and happy with the games then you have a winner.  It doesn\'t matter which has the better specs.  Who cares which system sells more units or who has more megahertz.  Thats all company jargon.  Last time I checked i wasn\'t getting a cut of the console sales so who cares.  I love my PS2 and I wouldn\'t trade it for anything.  It has the games I like and that is what matters to me.

Originally posted by Living-In-Clip

Originally posted by Soul Reaver

Originally posted by koolkev
well it looks like the debate is almost over. If x-box keeps changing their specs, like i read, their losing ground quickly. They was the only one to even come close to PS2 in any catagory and its looking mighty dim for them. Dreamcast was never even close(enough said)and game cube well they just about have 3rd place wrapped up. It looks as though all the recounts are in and PS2 is offically the best console in the world. FACT!

It\'s official! We have a psychic! :rolleyes: [/B]

Apparently, Soul..Apparently.

I guess we should be excited or something.

:rolleyes: [/B]

It\'s either they are psychic or have had a bit too much alcohol...

BizioEE , thats what i was trying to say. After your reply no one had anything to say about that, they just keept attacking my words of wisdom. But you hit the nail on the head and shut some of those idiots up, excellent answer!

Correction:

Perhaps they are a psychic who drank obsessive amounts of alchoholic beverages. That would explain these same hallucinations that aren\'t experienced by the average whiskey downer...

Some good points made there, BioZEE. But, I rather prefer to stay out of tech debates, mainly because I\'m clueless when it comes to computers.

However, I\'d like to correct you on one thing:

"Have you seen one game running in real-time on both consoles?...The answer is NO!..."

I don\'t know why so many people are oblivious about the fact that the Zelda, Star Wars, and about 2 minutes of the Rebirth demo were ALL running in real time! It has been confirmed already by numerous sources, even by Nintendo themselves! And I\'m positive that a few pics of BoX games in real time have surfaced by now. But M4 can elaborate on that statement, as I know he\'s a master when it comes to X-Box knowledge.

"they just keept attacking my words of wisdom. But you hit the nail on the head and shut some of those idiots up, excellent answer!"

If I were still in elemantary school, you would be the perfect specimen for a Show & Tell. Your "words of wisdom" would guarantee a first place for me!

EDIT: Hmm... I didn\'t know HTML was turned off in this thread. My mistake!

[Living-In-Clip]

I don\'t get you  people sometimes. You sit and worry about which console will sell the most units, as if it matters. Just buy the console you like, and shut up about it. Geeze. Just because you bought *insert console name* and your friend bought it, does not make it the greatest console ever.

And what is with debating about two consoles that aren\'t even out? Why compare them with consoles that are out? I\'m postive, if a Sega / Nin/ MS fan was to have done that with the PS2 , before it was out, you would of screamed they was being unfair. So what makes you different? Oh yeah, I forgot, its because you like the PS2.

I understand this is CONSOLE DEBATING. But come on. What is the point in making a thread about the winner of this so called "war", when two of the systems aren\'t even out yet? Are any of you physic? No? Well, damn, then how do you know that the PS2 will be the best console, other then blind faith?

Give it a rest people,at least until E3.

You\'re exactly right in saying that these debates are pointless and idiotic. Technically, if everybody were as logical and intelligent as you want them to be, we wouldn\'t need to have these heated discussions. What would be the point?? The right answer will eventually shine on us anyway. But human nature (and lack of patience) forbids us to do so. It is our inbred characteristic to fight, and vie for whichever we think is right to be dominant. Even if a reckoning is inevitable, people are still going to want whatever they support to be victorious. Such is the infintete reaching of human stupity.

Well now, that didn\'t come out the way I wanted it! Good luck trying to decipher what I just said!

There debates are not pointless. There are many issues to talk about in the coming generation of consoles and there are many viewpoints that are valid. By talking about them with other people you can expand yor own knowledge and understanding. I didn\'t realy get into this kind of thing untill about a year and a half ago, since then my knowledge of many subjects has increased greatly. I know more about 3d hardware than I did before by a lot, I know more about video game history than I did and most of all I have a better and broader understanding of the industry as a whole, I\'m not so narrow minded in my views, I understand why other people might like differnt consoles than me. in this way I think console debate is a good thing, also because it teaches you a fair bbit about debate in general, and the way people think and act.

I stand by my statements BizioEE, i think that the two consoles, XBox and Gamecube, beat the PS2 in almost every aspect of performance. I understand how the vecto units work but you have to understand its not a perfect system and it has limits as with any other hardware. What the vector units are capable of doing the graphics chips in the other consoles o as wel if not better, and most of what they do is much easier to acomplish because its hardwired, inthe Ps2 not only do you have to program it but you have to program it to run simultaneously with the other parts of your game running of the other proccessors while managing all your data streeming and transfer that makes the hardware as powerful as it is. People talk about streeming as why the PS2 has such great texturing capabilities, well the Gamecube has that as well, exept its better and easier to do because the cache space is only used for textures and textures remain compressed throughout, so your one meg of texture cache is worth 6 megs of PS2 video ram, which after frame buffer and polygon data probably only has 1 meg of space left, which means six times as much texture data at one time for Gamecube than PS2, and like the PS2 thats not all you can use, you can constantly streem more textures from the DVD or from ram, only in gameucbe its a lot less complicated. I jsut don\'t see how my statements seem ridiculas, the PS2 isn\'t as powerful in almost every way to the other two consoles, and the Dreamcast can almsot match it in some areas like texturing. Thats reality, its also just graphics, games are what count, and great games are what I\'m waiting for before I spend $300 on a PS2, and whats on it right now just doesn\'t cut it for me.