take a look at this, Xbox IS dead!!!

it\'s a square...An ugly, black square, boy this is exciting:

long but cool

originally written by daily radar
The Look
Whatever you want to say about Sony\'s 2001-esque black monolith, it sure looks better than Microsoft\'s over-the-top cheese machine. While the PS2 is sleek and component styled, the Xbox screams, "Look at me, I\'m fun! By the way, did you notice I\'m an X?" so obnoxiously that Gamecube developers are probably making fun of it. It\'s possible that designing a console that resembles its name looked good on paper, but the final product comes off amateurish and clumsy.

Control
If there\'s one place nobody\'s going to be singing Microsoft\'s praises, it\'s controller design. A cross between a Sidewinder and the Genesis Six-Button Pad, there\'s no style or originality to be found anywhere in the Xbox\'s frightening boomerang of death. Like the console design, the controller sports a huge green Xbox logo, just to make sure that gamers don\'t forget for even an instant that they\'ve sold their soul to the big M. Place that against the stylized and incredibly comfortable Dual Shock 2 and there\'s not much of a comparison.

Power
Although the Xbox has a ton of raw power, it\'s not going to get used. Everything on the Xbox is going to be strained and distilled through a version of Windows 2000, of all things. Prepare for watered-down power and a legion of DirectX titles. Why innovate when you don\'t have to? While the PS2 has much less raw power -- and let\'s not dodge the question, it clearly does -- all of it is readily available, and the ability to write directly to the metal means more creativity and new approaches to design being discovered all the time.

The Hardware
Already there are questions about overheating with the Xbox, a big box crammed full of neat goodies, but that\'s about all you can knock it for. The hard drive and built-in Ethernet adapter are well and good but... wait, they\'re just good. There\'s really no way to not be happy about broadband and LAN support right out of the box. The nVidia 25 chip Microsoft\'s planning to use, however, is not even done and won\'t be in production until right before the release of the system. Perhaps Microsoft should call Sony and ask how fun a launch with chip shortages can be.

Expandability
While Microsoft has kindly decided to pack a hard drive and Ethernet adapter in with the Xbox, it\'s not leaving much room for anything else. One output in the box will be used for RCA, S-video, VGA and anything else you might need. There\'s no standard USB, optical outs or anything else you\'d expect from a next-gen console. What that means is that every keyboard, S-video connector or anything else you want to buy is going to have to be licensed and will cost a pretty penny. On the same note, the DVD capabilities are locked away when you buy the console, and if you actually want to use the DVD player you paid for you will be forced to buy a licensed remote control -- no controller support here. Prepare to get screwed.

The Games
Metal Gear Solid X, Tony Hawk\'s Pro Skater 2X, Crash Bandicoot, Dragon\'s Lair 3D -- the list of ports and "me too" games goes on and on. With no solidly established franchises of its own and a slew of hastily thrown together ports, Xbox may be missing its killer app this fall when it launches. What\'s there, however, is gorgeous, and once the system gets underway it\'s going to be anyone\'s guess as to whether the PS2 or Xbox will take the lead. Hopefully, it will, in the end, come down to a battle of original titles and creative gameplay development.

The Price
While Microsoft seemed to be for some time holding the line that the Xbox would be cheaper or at least competitively priced with the PS2, it seems less sure now. When Daily Radar asked J. Allard, the Xbox team leader, whether Xbox would cost less than the PS2, he responded simply, "Does the PS2 come with a massive hard drive and broadband adapter?" That sounds like the beginnings of an excuse for the final price to us.

Conclusion
So, the Xbox is here. It\'s ugly and boxy but has a ton of power. Because the developers don\'t actually have the final chipsets, however, games are being shown running at one-fifth of the console\'s supposed final power. There\'s no expandability, no DVD playback out of the box and the clock speed has already been lowered since the system was originally announced. What else will change for the worse before the actual launch date? Will Microsoft try to use marketing and money to move a system that is steadily scaled back from its original promising spec sheet? These are many questions, and it is these unknowns that will decide whether Xbox becomes PS2\'s biggest competitor or just another TurboGraphix-style footnote in gaming history.

(sorry, guys, thanx for reminding me to put the quote

Hmmm...

I agree with that "me too" games part, definetely Too many -gamename-X titles...

First they tell about watered down graphics and then they say that everything that is released on X-box will be beautiful... so can\'t they make their mind? I\'m not agreeing fully with this part because I don\'t trust this quote very much...

Interesting this still is... controller is quite cool BUT there\'s that lime-X wich really annoys me...

ok, so where did u copy-paste this from?

mm

Wait, those games listed will already be obselete by the time X Box come, well not to those who never played them before though. Now, say u got a DOA2 on DC would you be as excited as you were when you saw DOA2 on PS2?
And I saw some screenshots of an X Box game on CNET, whasisname... couldn\'t remember, I wasn\'t impressed, in fact, it was more like a bit better DC quality graphics.

Originally posted by shadowflare
And I saw some screenshots of an X Box game on CNET, whasisname... couldn\'t remember, I wasn\'t impressed, in fact, it was more like a bit better DC quality graphics.

Oh really? Come on, post the screenshot of a DC game (or even a PS2 game) which compares to the following from Malice;



That\'s an ingame shot!

Notice the superb bump-mapping, including the logo on her chest. Also, notice the shadows, they are ALL created in realtime. The shadow of her hair on her head, the shadow of her leg on her arm, the hammer, the gears in the background etc, all casts pre-rendered quality shadows. NO OTHER CONSOLE has EVER demonstrated shadows like these, and yet all of this is achieved on hardware running at 1/5th final XBox power!

I look forward to your screenshot.

im sure your playing with nothing on the screen , no life bar no nothing , and you play looking in front so you cant see where your going . and heres a picture.



if you were not talking about while your playing disreguard this post.

Hey Dr.Yassam,with your whole shadow bit-its not a big deal. In Shenmue you see shadowing like that as well,don\'t make a big fuss about it,k?

As for that pic-it looks nice,really nice.A lot better than anything I\'ve seen on PS2 but it still on par with GameCube graphics.

hamster, it is in-game. Check out the videos on zdnet or watch tech tv if you want to see for yourself. Just because the camera was turned around at the time the shot was taken doesnt mean it\'s not a game :rolleyes: True, there\'s no life bars or such on the screen, but if you actually watch the videos you will see that it is obviously a game.

.....unlike that tomb raider thing you posted.....

Originally posted by Jumpman
Hey Dr.Yassam,with your whole shadow bit-its not a big deal. In Shenmue you see shadowing like that as well,don\'t make a big fuss about it,k?

Shenmue just doesn\'t compare.

Various shadowing techniques have been used for years in games, but the best to-date only project shadows onto the surrounding environment (i.e. walls and floors).

This is VERY simple compared to those seen in Malice.

I\'ve looked at dozens of Shenmue screenshots, and in NONE do characters create the same kind of shadows (including onto themselves) as seen in Malice. The characters are beautifully textured, but that\'s all.

As for that pic-it looks nice,really nice.A lot better than anything I\'ve seen on PS2 but it still on par with GameCube graphics.[/B]

I\'m 100% sure that the GC is capable of such textures and bump-mapping, but NONE of those GC demos demonstrated pre-rendered quality shadows as seen in Malice. Whether or not the final GC hardware will be able to do so is not known at present.

However, download the following movie of Malice. It\'s low quality, but it gives a good idea of what that screenshot looks like when it\'s moving.

(Download Malice Movie 2)
http://www.zdnet.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2671941,00.html

First of all thats ripped off Daily radar, please give em credit at least. Second, Yassam you say no console has produced shadows like them? Heven\'t looked very closely at the real time Gamecube demos have you.



Notice the distinct Ganon shaped shadow, now if you watch the movie it moves in sync with ganon acording to where the light source is, and unless Nintendo pre rendered the shadow on the floor texture, which seems highly unlikely, thats shadow effects every bit as impressive as those seen in malice. The malice pics realy aren\'t that impressive. What makes them look good is lush textures, but Gamecube and probalby even PS2 later on is perfectly capable of making textures that look that good, thats mostly texture design rather than the technical merits of waht is being proccessed. The Gamecube pokemon demo had way more polygons than those pics, way more, with dozens of pokemon all moving around at once t=with virtualy no polygon edges, it was all smooth, the malice demo has 1 animated charecter and a lot of static balcground.

Yassam is right is part right. I dont see any shadows on Ganon made by himself being in the light.

Eric Jacob

I suppose your right, but the Lugie\'s mansion demo does, tehre\'s not a lot becuase luigi doesn\'t have any convineantly placed hair to project shadows, but his hat and cloths do, wehre they should, project shadows on his body, its hard to make out in a lot of detail becuase of the nature of the demo, but its there. Even if the lighting in that malaec is better than anything seen in real time, its harly mid blowing. Oh, wow, a decent looking game now has shodows that project on the charecter themselves, eating up most of the system\'s powr but only visable during close ups of the front of the main charecter. If thats  the best the XBox can do, heck if the XBoc can do two or three times that, its not even close to the kind of performance they are hyping it up to have. When I see games that blow my mind that are running on final hardware (note, final hardware includes the 64 meg unified memory architecture for ram, none of this cushy 64 meg on the chip and 128 system ram stuff)

[Living-In-Clip]

Originally posted by zip77
it\'s a square...An ugly, black square, boy this is exciting:

long but cool

The Look
Whatever you want to say about Sony\'s 2001-esque black monolith, it sure looks better than Microsoft\'s over-the-top cheese machine. While the PS2 is sleek and component styled, the Xbox screams, "Look at me, I\'m fun! By the way, did you notice I\'m an X?" so obnoxiously that Gamecube developers are probably making fun of it. It\'s possible that designing a console that resembles its name looked good on paper, but the final product comes off amateurish and clumsy.

Control
If there\'s one place nobody\'s going to be singing Microsoft\'s praises, it\'s controller design. A cross between a Sidewinder and the Genesis Six-Button Pad, there\'s no style or originality to be found anywhere in the Xbox\'s frightening boomerang of death. Like the console design, the controller sports a huge green Xbox logo, just to make sure that gamers don\'t forget for even an instant that they\'ve sold their soul to the big M. Place that against the stylized and incredibly comfortable Dual Shock 2 and there\'s not much of a comparison.

Power
Although the Xbox has a ton of raw power, it\'s not going to get used. Everything on the Xbox is going to be strained and distilled through a version of Windows 2000, of all things. Prepare for watered-down power and a legion of DirectX titles. Why innovate when you don\'t have to? While the PS2 has much less raw power -- and let\'s not dodge the question, it clearly does -- all of it is readily available, and the ability to write directly to the metal means more creativity and new approaches to design being discovered all the time.

The Hardware
Already there are questions about overheating with the Xbox, a big box crammed full of neat goodies, but that\'s about all you can knock it for. The hard drive and built-in Ethernet adapter are well and good but... wait, they\'re just good. There\'s really no way to not be happy about broadband and LAN support right out of the box. The nVidia 25 chip Microsoft\'s planning to use, however, is not even done and won\'t be in production until right before the release of the system. Perhaps Microsoft should call Sony and ask how fun a launch with chip shortages can be.

Expandability
While Microsoft has kindly decided to pack a hard drive and Ethernet adapter in with the Xbox, it\'s not leaving much room for anything else. One output in the box will be used for RCA, S-video, VGA and anything else you might need. There\'s no standard USB, optical outs or anything else you\'d expect from a next-gen console. What that means is that every keyboard, S-video connector or anything else you want to buy is going to have to be licensed and will cost a pretty penny. On the same note, the DVD capabilities are locked away when you buy the console, and if you actually want to use the DVD player you paid for you will be forced to buy a licensed remote control -- no controller support here. Prepare to get screwed.

The Games
Metal Gear Solid X, Tony Hawk\'s Pro Skater 2X, Crash Bandicoot, Dragon\'s Lair 3D -- the list of ports and "me too" games goes on and on. With no solidly established franchises of its own and a slew of hastily thrown together ports, Xbox may be missing its killer app this fall when it launches. What\'s there, however, is gorgeous, and once the system gets underway it\'s going to be anyone\'s guess as to whether the PS2 or Xbox will take the lead. Hopefully, it will, in the end, come down to a battle of original titles and creative gameplay development.

The Price
While Microsoft seemed to be for some time holding the line that the Xbox would be cheaper or at least competitively priced with the PS2, it seems less sure now. When Daily Radar asked J. Allard, the Xbox team leader, whether Xbox would cost less than the PS2, he responded simply, "Does the PS2 come with a massive hard drive and broadband adapter?" That sounds like the beginnings of an excuse for the final price to us.

Conclusion
So, the Xbox is here. It\'s ugly and boxy but has a ton of power. Because the developers don\'t actually have the final chipsets, however, games are being shown running at one-fifth of the console\'s supposed final power. There\'s no expandability, no DVD playback out of the box and the clock speed has already been lowered since the system was originally announced. What else will change for the worse before the actual launch date? Will Microsoft try to use marketing and money to move a system that is steadily scaled back from its original promising spec sheet? These are many questions, and it is these unknowns that will decide whether Xbox becomes PS2\'s biggest competitor or just another TurboGraphix-style footnote in gaming history.
 

Where did you get this? That is what I want to know.

And the price thing. If MS launches it over $300, no one\'cept the hardcore will buy it.

yea actually the ps2 has shown similar shadows

i got this from the newest Electronic Gaming Monthly - th eone with XBOX exclusive in it.

And it said that in Metal Gear Solid the enemy\'s shadows were very detailed and that you could tell what direction they were looking and even what kind of gun they had in their hands - although i don\'t know if they cast shadows on themselves - but how hard is thay to do out of curiousity

Originally posted by Underwhelming Force
First of all thats ripped off Daily radar, please give em credit at least. Second, Yassam you say no console has produced shadows like them? Heven\'t looked very closely at the real time Gamecube demos have you.

Yes, I\'ve looked at all those demos, and whilst they are excellent, they are the kind of shadows I mentioned early, i.e. on walls and floors.

In Malice (running on phase1 hardware!!!), every polygon has the potential to cast a shadow onto every other polygon, not just onto walls and floors (see screenshot in previous post). This is a hardware feature and it takes shadowing to a new level.

If you look at the Malice screens and movies, you will see shadows exactly where they should be, whereas on the PS2 and GC, game developers are using \'traditional\' shadowing techiques, hence many shadows are missing! Therefore in that GC screenshot, if Link walks into Ganon\'s shadow, Ganon\'s shadow will not be cast across Link\'s body, but in Malice it would!

Remember, those screenshots of Malice are taken from the game running on the NV15 (known to PC users as GeForce2), which has 1/5th the power of the NV2A!!!