Let\'s end the whole "kiddie" debate in here

I am so fed up with the whole "kiddie" debate.  My goal is to present to everyone the most objective viewpoint I can come up with in hopes of laying this whole debate to rest.  I strongly believe those who don\'t consider the system as such mainly uses a subjective, personal approach on why they don\'t believe so.  The whole issue here is not whether they are indeed mature, but whether they cater to this demographic or not.  If you look at Nintendo in contrast with the opposition(Microsoft and Sony), you will see that they simply have no chance to compete for this adult market.  

There are a couple of factors:

Advertising

Microsoft and Sony are planning 1.5 something billion dollars this fall alone aspiring for the adult market.  I doubt Nintendo will even shell out a fraction of that amount of money considering they still have to maintain their target group(kids) by advertising on Saturday morning cartoons, and cereal boxes, etc.  Keep in mind, the opposition has a great deal more money than Nintendo has, and they only have to focus on one group.  As far as advertising "to draw this very important, crucial market" do you think Nintendo will be able to compete with the likes of the two behemoths?  I am sorry, but I highly doubt they will be able to even break into this market let alone grab a fair portion of it.

Softwares

When you look at the softwares from a subjective point, some ppl view Zelda, Metroid, etc as "mature" titles  while others don\'t.  Well who is really right or wrong?  According to the definition of "maturity" from the Webster\'s Marriam Dictionary:

This is the only objective viewpoint and not of a personal taste.

Mature = characteristic of or suitable to a mature individual {mature outlook}[/b]

Neither titles are consider "mature" because they  have characteristics suitable for children(family oriented).  Another problem we have is although some individuals consider games like Zelda, F Zero, etc as "mature" titles, those types of games simply do not draw the adult gamers to the system.  

When you break down the softwares for the system, you will only see a handful of titles that does draw the  adult gamers, and they are:

Eternal Darkness
Perfect Dark
Too Human
Resident Evil O
Mortal Kombat 5
Duke Nukem
Sports games

This lineup is not enough, especially when the system only has 3 titles(ED, PD, Too Human) that will stay exclusive.  If the adult gamers want sports games, they can simply just play those games on the opposing systems.  With the exception of the two exclusive titles, everything else is finding their way somewhere else.   To make matters worse, Eternal Darkness is the only title that has a "set" date.  We have only seen tech demos of Too Human and Perfect Dark, and everything is too vague and obscure to even consider those as legitimate.

Honestly, what have we seen from Nintendo so far in regards to them "breaking into the adult market".  They simply do not have the softwares, the funds, and the ammuntion to go up against the likes of Sony and Microsoft.  How can a title like Eternal Darkness(the only adult title this fall) even begin to compete with a MGS2, Silent Hill 2, or DOA 3, etc.  Another thing is, the support from developers(for mature titles) for the system is too limited and many(Konami) are shying away from developement(MGS2, SH won\'t be ported) altogether.  Simply put, without the right support, outlook, advertising, and softwares, they won\'t have a chance.

Has it ever occur to you guys part of the reason why those mature titles are there is to keep the current hardcore fans, whom have stuck with them throughout the years, happy?  If they seriously are broadening their market, then don\'t you think this has to be the most pathetic attempt by any company yet?  They cannot compete!  Simple as that.  Sony and Microsoft has such a strong grasp on this market that any attempt by Nintendo would be "crippled".  With the low, obscure number of titles, and the vast amounts of money the oppositions are spending on advertising, I strongly believe Nintendo is not riding for this market.  To do so would be suicide, and they know it.

I was about to thank you for your efforts til I jumped to the end and read your summary.  Microsoft has no grasp on the industry right now, for one...

The point is the Nintendo "kiddy" label.  Most of it is focused on games designed for "all ages" not "kiddies" at all.  Case closed, and in one sentence, no less.

-Eik

The point is the Nintendo "kiddy" label. Most of it is focused on games designed for "all ages" not "kiddies" at all.[/b]

A game like Mario will simply not draw the adult gamers and that is the point I am trying to make here.  Anything that is actually deem as "suitable for all ages" are usually targetted for kids and not the upper age group.  Nintendo is mainly catering towards the kids and that will eventually land them a "kiddie" stigma.

Same thing as a rated PG movie will not draw many adults to the theaters.

I\'m with you Tshirts.  To me it looks like the gamecube is aimed directly at the kiddie market, and any other part of the larger gaming market they get will be frosting.  Maybe this isn\'t what Nintendo expects to happen or wants to happen, but I think that\'s what will happen.

Just take a look at the gamecube controller.  It looks like it was manufactured by Fisher Price.  I think that one little characteristic is going to peg this machine in the kiddie market better than anything else Nintendo is doing or trying not to do.  What non-hardcore-gamer-adult would want to be seen holding that controller in public or anywhere else?  This design will do well in Japan where everyone is already used to "kawaii" everywhere, but it won\'t fly across all consumer demographics in the US.

To me, I don\'t care what it looks like, but then I\'m a hardcore-gamer-adult.  We are in the minority.  To be really successful, Nintendo has to sell this thing to other people who care about dumb things like what the case and controller look like.

The "conclusion" to the kidde debate won\'t come until a few months after November... so hold off judgement until then.

Originally posted by Tshirts
  They cannot compete!  Simple as that.  Sony and Microsoft has such a strong grasp on this market that any attempt by Nintendo would be "crippled".

Microsoft is not even in[/in] the market yet. How could it possibly have a strangle hold on it?

I also agree with Eik on the point of Nintendo\'s games being designed for All ages rather than just kiddies. If the gameplay is good people will come.

Take Shrek for example, it is rated PG and was thought to be targeted at a younger age demographic, yet the movie turned out so good that there is no shortage of adults in theaters lineing up to see the film.

Originally posted by Coredweller
Just take a look at the gamecube controller.  It looks like it was manufactured by Fisher Price

Sometimes I read **** that makes me want to smack myself upside the head.  First of all, the thing looks like a Dual Shock 2.  Second of all, shut up, that was the most retarded thing I\'ve read all day - and I\'ve been chatting it up with N64 "kiddies" all day long.

Anyway, with that out of my system, I\'d like to reiterate that labeling Nintendo fans as "kiddies" is rude, labeling Nintendo games as "kiddy" is incorrect, and insinuating for the umpteenth time that all Nintendo fans must be immature is... well... rude and incorrect.

Read this slowly: Because young gamers like a game does not make that game unsuitable for older gamers as well.  Very good, now one more time with your eyes open: Because young gamers like a game does not make that game unsuitable for older gamers as well.

Listen, some games are targeted to a younger audience, some are marketed that way.  But damn near all of the N\'s games are fun for people of all ages and that\'s where it counts.  If you\'re 30 and you like Mario, great.  If you don\'t, don\'t be rude to those who do.

And for kicks, I will stress again that labeling these things as "kiddy" is an isult to people like me who enjoy them, and for those of you who were thinking of a "snappy comeback" instead of reading, look at this again: Because young gamers like a game does not make that game unsuitable for older gamers as well.

-Eik

Wanna be technical?

Originally posted by Tshirts
Mature = characteristic of or suitable to a mature individual {mature outlook}

"Suitable to a mature individual."  I\'m a mature individual, and playing a fighting game with Kirby in it suits me just fine.

And to save having to clear this up later, you\'re right, Nintendo will (obviously) have to work to shake this stigma.  Many gamers are (obviously) not enlightened enough to see through all the labeling b.s.  Whether you think they can shake the stigma is debatable, but my point is that the stigma in itself is largely unfounded.

-Eik

Tshirts, Xbox doesn\'t have any adult gamers, they have no gamers period since they\'ve never released a system before! How can you say they have a hold on the adult market? Have you been stealing Mario\'s magic mushrooms?

My goal is to present to everyone the most objective viewpoint I can come up with in hopes of laying this whole debate to rest.

Whoa did you ever set a high goal...

There\'s that word again!(objective) It\'s REALLY hard to have a fully objectivie viewpoint, in fact, I\'m almost going to say it\'s impossible to have one, especially regarding subjects like these.

I agree with both Tshirts and Eiksirf.
Gamecubes mature lineup is painfully slim, but they dont make a majority of kiddie games.
As Eiksirf put it, they make games suitable for all ages.
The only problem with this is, is that Older gamers can play "Suitable for ages", just like they can watch shrek, but sometimes they want something with blood and a deep serious plot. They dont want a game that is cute and fun, but dark and menacing, and unfortunately Nintendo\'s lineup in this respect may contain a few titles, but it is so small compared to the competition, its like surfing in a river as opposed to an ocean.
Hopefully they rectify this.
AND HAVE SILICON KNIGHTS MAKE A NEW SHINING FORCE DAMNIT!

This debate been at rest with me.  Nintendo makes kiddy games.  Sony and M$ are going after a different group of gamers.

Originally posted by Faithdies
I agree with both Tshirts and Eiksirf.
Gamecubes mature lineup is painfully slim, but they dont make a majority of kiddie games.
As Eiksirf put it, they make games suitable for all ages.
The only problem with this is, is that Older gamers can play "Suitable for ages", just like they can watch shrek, but sometimes they want something with blood and a deep serious plot. They dont want a game that is cute and fun, but dark and menacing, and unfortunately Nintendo\'s lineup in this respect may contain a few titles, but it is so small compared to the competition, its like surfing in a river as opposed to an ocean.
Hopefully they rectify this.
AND HAVE SILICON KNIGHTS MAKE A NEW SHINING FORCE DAMNIT!

True enough, but from the looks of it, the few mature Nintendo titles will all be great games.  (Compare that with the ghost of Playstation past. )  And that\'s all that matters.

...

Hmm...

True enough, but from the looks of it, the few mature Nintendo titles will all be great games.

LOL, I think I just told you that it\'d be alright because of quality over quantity.  Shoot me now, haha.

-Eik

im with Eik as usual

hes a legacy dont forget

Originally posted by mm
im with Eik as usual

hes a legacy dont forget

But you always say Nintendo is kiddy...

[Living-In-Clip]

Nintendo\'s core audience has and always will be the younger audience and that is a good thing. Who else is targeting that market? No one! Therefor, they can target it and get it succesfully. Sure, they don\'t have a huge share of the adult gamers, but if they span out just alittle with games like PD2 and Eternal Darkness, they can grab a few of those. Either way, the younger audience will keep them afloat buisness wise as will the handheld market. Therefor, they really don\'t have a big reason to change their buisness plans.

 Will the system be geared towards the younger auidence? More and likely. Does it matter? No.

I figure it like this, the \'true hardcore\' gamer doesn\'t care if the game is "kiddie". He / she cares about if it is fun. Nintendo has established themself by making fun first party games . As long as they continue this is all I care about.