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Author Topic: Soul or no Soul  (Read 2842 times)

Offline M4
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Soul or no Soul
« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2001, 09:23:56 PM »
Quddus:

You\'re making it extraordinarily apparent that religion breeds arrogance in some. I\'m not going to generalize, because some other members holding the same beliefs as you completely disagree. But I\'ll make this blunt.

Animals are here for us to do as we please with them, correct? All living things are, correct? Alright. So why don\'t we just level the forests? Why don\'t we just demolish full ecosystems? They\'re our ecosystems, after all. Lets us leave a few million acres of rain forest a deserted wasteland; after all, it was our rain forest. We can do anything with it, right? ANWR. Lets just burn the whole forest, and slaughter the creatures there for fun. That sounds pretty good, doesn\'t it? And hey, we\'ll get some fuel out of it, so we can load it into our cars and fill the atmosphere with more smoke so we can kill some more birds. I mean, we can do whatever we want with these animals, right? Why don\'t we go and pour a few million gallons of clorox bleach into the Atlantic ocean? Sure, we might kill a few animals, but who cares, right? Those animals were put here for us, we can do what we want to them, correct?

And then we start having problems. Rain forests dead, land beneath them wasted, air growing thin from lack of oxygen; the temperature worldwide rapidly rising from too much carbon dioxide. Previously frozen water, rising above its normal level, flooding cities, leaving previously accessible locations inaccessible, to us anyhow. The world becoming progressively more uninhabitable, it eventually reaches a point at which it cannot sustain life. Or at least, to where it cannot sustain human life.

This, my friend, is what would happen if the planet was occupied by people like you. I know what your initial reaction will be, (no, no, I don\'t think it\'s good to kill animals and to destroy these things, I don\'t think we should do that.) but that\'s irrelevant. You see, when people believe that everything is theirs, that they can do what they want with anything and everything, they always wind up doing that. Because people always want a little more. And if they believe that they can do so, and get away with it, they do it. It\'s our nature.

Your belief system is dictating to you that you can indeed do anything you want with any organic thing on this earth. In believing these things were put here for us to do what we please with them, people think they can do what they please with them, and do so. And in continuously doing that, they eventually will deplete our environment to a point at which it can no longer sustain our life. As a result, humanity will cease to exist. Without oxygen being circulated into our atmosphere by the masses of plants, oxygen breathing organisms, like us, will be destroyed. Our water will be contaminated, our skies will be painted black. Because someone gave those to us, however, it doesn\'t matter.

We\'re like a child with a toy, going by what you say. While some of us take care of that toy because of what it is, a very precious possesion, others, such as you, abuse it. You toss it on the ground, you kick it. Unlike any toy, however, this toy sustains your life. When this toy no longer functions, neither you nor anyone else will be able to survive.

Even if these things were created for us, we can\'t just do what we want with them. No, we must take care of them. For if they\'re destroyed, us human beings "created in God\'s image" will be nothing more than a completed small paragraph in the text book of earth.
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Offline kirath
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« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2001, 05:52:55 AM »
Guys guys guys.  I have heard this christian opinion over and over again.  Don\'t get upset.  They need to do it make themselves feel better for their shortcommings.

I allow them their opinion and I analyze why they think like that and its not good.    But at any rate, I just wanted to know what some of you had to say.

I think its very disturbing that some people read one book ( a book writen by man) which is fallabe just as so.  And take it word for word, or better yet take it out of context.  The bible is a good book, it teaches morality, it teaches people to be good to one another.  But do you know why?  Because humans with out such guidance and fear instilled in them would be a very different creature.  They would be worse the animals, they would kill each other, rape, pillage and steal from one another.  It happens already, people who are criminals are wrought without morals.  So the masses need to be taught, to not act like this.  Thats where religon and the bible come into play.

Now all this talk about superiority, now thats got me a little disturbed.  I remember reading parts of another book, called Mein Kompf.  Some people back in the day, we will call them Nazis beleived that they were a superior race, and that everyone else on the earth was here to serve them.  Now we all know what happend with that.  Unfortunatly the masses beleived that and bad things happend.

Now Hindus beleive that all life is precious and everything on this planet and in the universe was created by god and contains god\'s energy.  Which is true,  ultimately it all came from god.  I don\'t think anyone here is going to deny that.  

Now my question to you HUMAN superior people, are they wrong??  Are they wrong about animals?  They don\'t beleive they are superior over animals.  And get this, there are a lot more hindus then there are Christians.  

I don\'t think anyone should close their mind to any idea.  Being open and trying to understand what is going on around you is the most important thing.  

There is one thing gauaranteed to us all in this Life....  Its that your going to die.....

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Offline fastson
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« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2001, 07:23:10 AM »
Mein Kampf is a sick book..

They had some quotes from it in my history book.. :puke:
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Offline Weltall
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« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2001, 08:19:51 AM »
A human is an animal, and to be honest, a physically weak animal. Lots of animals could bust human ass on even terms.

Human babies are very noisy. In nature, noisy babies quickly become dead babies. We are slow, we do not have fangs or claws for self-defense, or fur for warmth, rather poor hearing and sight (in comparison to some animals).

To be honest, we\'re actually on the bad end of things naturally, except for one, very important factor: Our Brains.

Human brains are by far the most complex of any animals. We can think on much higher levels, and thus we can adapt to challenges and changes much faster. That\'s how Mankind has made it so far with all the deficiencies we have. Noisy babies? We learn to keep them at a safe distance from predators. We can\'t defend ourselves with our hands and teeth? We create fire and spears to make up for it.

Humans are the highest on the food chain because we not only learn, but we pass on to others. Despite our warlike tendencies at times, we are also very social, and share what we learn so others learn it faster and better, and eventually, we do what animals almost never do with what they know: We improve on it. That\'s why we have all kinds of weaponry today and animals have nothing but the claws and teeth they had from the getgo. It\'s also why we, at least in the civilized world, live in luxury that puts the finest livery of 200 years ago to shame, better than the kings of the 18th century.

So because we are more advanced than any other animal, we do have sovereign right over all animals, and the world. In a way we are more than animals, because there is no animal as advanced as us, but we still share a lot in common with them physically. And if we do have souls, as I believe we do, then animals do as well. Animals rarely kill for no reason, they usually kill only to eat. Killing an animal to eat it is not soulless. But harming or killing an animal for any reason other than food or self defense is evil.
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Offline Lord of Darkness
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« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2001, 12:56:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by QuDDus


Your absolutely right. You are full of Bull:D




Whats the matter, can\'t think of any bull**** remark?
In so many ways we live to follow the sun
In so many ways we exalt and fail as one
In so many ways we want so bad to be done
In so many ways we show our pain in unison
Bad Religion - \"In So Many Ways\"

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Offline Titan

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« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2001, 12:59:51 PM »
Give it up QuDDus. You ain\'t got no arguement here. M4, Weltall and me are right jsut so you know. We are using fact, you are using opinion. If the earth was ours, it would have gone to hell already. We are not the strongest species on this planet. There are animals that could kick our ass easily. for example, loin vs. man. Hmm, we would die in an instant.
To try and save yourself, you are putting the ones argueing with you down. You call me misguided, no self esteem and that I am 100% wrong when my info came from an evolution book by Richard Leaky, son of Louis Leaky, one of the best antropologists. You have no case to c\'mon, give it up already.
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Offline JerginsSoft
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« Reply #66 on: October 29, 2001, 01:22:30 PM »
Ok, I had to post.

Do NOT base your opinions of Christians on Q\'s statements, please.  As a person who believes in God and Christ (not going to go as far as to say I do a great job of practicing their beliefs though.  Its one of my shortcomings!), I can safely say that he does a bad, bad job of expressing Christianity\'s, as a whole, opinion.

God meant for us to have domain on this earth, but to do so with compassion for all living things, in conjunction with all living things.  He meant for us to rule with a caring, loving touch.  And yes, I believe that God will be very, very upset with you if you wastefully harm one of his creatures, be it human, or animal, or even plant.  As for whether or not animals have souls, well, I won\'t tell you my opinion either way, but, for you to believe that you are so supreme as to think you can indiscriminately do what you please with the earth, and that God will fully sanction said actions, you are sadly, sadly mistaken.
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Offline Titan

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« Reply #67 on: October 29, 2001, 01:37:39 PM »
I agree that God made us the dominent species on this planet. He made us more intelligent and more capable to do more things (tool wise and stuff like that). But does God want us to treat other organisms like plants and animals like crap? No. He wants humans to love and rejoice about his creations. Not go and treat them like crap. He wants us to enjoy his creations. I think it even says it in the Bible (well I\'m absolutely positive). God wants us to love and treat other things with respect.
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Offline M4
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« Reply #68 on: October 29, 2001, 01:50:22 PM »
Quote
Do NOT base your opinions of Christians on Q\'s statements, please.

Ohh, trust me, I\'d never base my opinions on a huge number of people off of the views of one single person. That would be called "overgeneralizing."
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Offline Lord of Darkness
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« Reply #69 on: October 29, 2001, 04:17:17 PM »
Trust me, I may be a little paranoid and bias but I am not that stupid to base an entire religion on one fanatics mindless rantings.
In so many ways we live to follow the sun
In so many ways we exalt and fail as one
In so many ways we want so bad to be done
In so many ways we show our pain in unison
Bad Religion - \"In So Many Ways\"

Got Atheism?

Offline Paul
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« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2001, 05:47:17 AM »
I agreed with Ddarryl. There is no such thing as God nor soul. Only energy which may be represented in the form of collective conciousness.

We "think" we are alive, thus we disillusion ourselves and hold on to the concept of "soul" because it offers a very safe haven of from the unknown(when u die) because your need to exist is preserve in this theory of soul and an all loving "God"(which represent continuity of existence and a peaceful \'afterlife\') that\'ll save you from the burning fire of Hell(which represent fear and pain).

When u die, you\'ll be re-birth into a different form and possibly into another celestial plane..good or bad depending on your deeds(basically, your karma).

So remember, everyone is responsible for his own act & doing and there is no God that can save you but you can redeem yourself in your future re-birth with good deeds...once you get all the payment for your sins that is...

"You reap what you sow.."

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The above represent only my own thoughts and opinion. You are welcome to embrace and accept any religion which is good....as long as they don\'t declare no "jihad"!!!! Any god who ask his people to do his dirty job is sure heck one useless God!!!
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Offline Paul
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« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2001, 06:01:43 AM »
Just have to add this:
Somebody was saying if we kill for food, than it\'s ok else it\'s not??
I\'m sorry dude, I\'ve to totally disagree with that statement.

Killing for WHATEVER reason is wrong. If I\'m hungry and I kill u and eat you, is that okay??? Of course not!!! The same applies to animals!

That is why many people are becoming vegetarian(i\'m no vegetarian myself but I am trying to cut down on meat). In fact human teeth are not design to eat meat...with only 4 miserable sharp teeth in our mouth(which isn\'t very sharp either)....we\'re not carnivorous.

Furthermore, we have much longer intestine than meat eating animals like tigers and lions. Meat, if stay too long in our intestine become toxic and poinsonous to the body, that is why carnivorous have short intestine to process the stuff quickly and throw it out ASAP(commonly known as S.H.I.T :).

So by looking at the physical structure and design of the human body, humans are just not meant to eat meat, and killing CERTAINLY ISN\'T OK.

(but i\'ll forgive u if it\'s Osama Bin Ladeen you\'re eating).

Offline IronFist
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« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2001, 08:15:30 AM »
Quote
When u die, you\'ll be re-birth into a different form and possibly into another celestial plane..good or bad depending on your deeds(basically, your karma).

I\'m just wondering, what do you mean by "celestial plane?"

Quote
So remember, everyone is responsible for his own act & doing and there is no God that can save you but you can redeem yourself in your future re-birth with good deeds...once you get all the payment for your sins that is...

You claimed there wasn\'t a god.  If so, why would we need to do good deeds?  How does the planet (or the "energy") know if we\'ve been bad or good?  How does it determine what we will be reincarnated as?

Quote
Just have to add this:
Somebody was saying if we kill for food, than it\'s ok else it\'s not??
I\'m sorry dude, I\'ve to totally disagree with that statement.

Killing for WHATEVER reason is wrong. If I\'m hungry and I kill u and eat you, is that okay??? Of course not!!! The same applies to animals!

I disagree with that.  The bible says that the we have dominion over the animals, and that they were put down here for us.  I don\'t think it\'s wrong to kill animals if you need to kill them for food because that is one reason they were put here.  I do think it\'s wrong to kill animals if you don\'t need to or if you are just killing for fun.

Quote
That is why many people are becoming vegetarian(i\'m no vegetarian myself but I am trying to cut down on meat). In fact human teeth are not design to eat meat...with only 4 miserable sharp teeth in our mouth(which isn\'t very sharp either)....we\'re not carnivorous.

We are omnivours.  We can eat both meat and plant.  We don\'t have tons of sharp teeth, but we do have something even better -- brains.  We have learned to eat meat by using knifes and forks.  We can even grind the meat up before eating it (hamburger :)).

Quote
Furthermore, we have much longer intestine than meat eating animals like tigers and lions. Meat, if stay too long in our intestine become toxic and poinsonous to the body, that is why carnivorous have short intestine to process the stuff quickly and throw it out ASAP(commonly known as S.H.I.T .

I don\'t know about the human intestines, but I don\'t think meat gets stuck in them.  Humans can digest meat just fine.  If there was really a problenm with eating meat, doctors and scientists would have put out warnings just like they did with coffee and tobacco.  If there really was a problem with eating meat, I don\'t think so many people would still be doing it.
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Offline Titan

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« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2001, 11:31:15 AM »
If you believe in evolution, one of our ancestors, I forget what it was, I think it was Homo Habilis but am not 100% sure, was carnivorus. But I\'m not sure but it was one of our early ancestors that man is supposedly evolved from. But we did eat meat when we (our species in early history :)) were in the wild.


Quote
That is why many people are becoming vegetarian(i\'m no vegetarian myself but I am trying to cut down on meat). In fact human teeth are not design to eat meat...with only 4 miserable sharp teeth in our mouth(which isn\'t very sharp either)....we\'re not carnivorous.


Uh, our teeth are designed for both. If we were true herbivores, we would have flat teeth, not flat and ridged teeth. But we are and always were and God created us to be onmivores. Our bodies are made so they eat both meat and plants. You may have different opinions on animal rights but IMO, it is ok to kill animals as a food source. Not to just kill them to watch them die. But I believe that certain animals God created so they would be a source of food for man. Example, cows, deer, turkey, pigs, and any other animals you eat in your diet. For survival, it isn\'t wrong. It\'s survival.
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Offline videoholic

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« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2001, 02:21:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by QuDDus


If you do some how take your frustrations out on your dog, cat , or whatever. Don\'t go to pieces over it because it is not like you did something wrong too a human it\'s just an animal.


So why do we have a law against animal abuse?  Should we just beat our animals whenever we feel like it?  Or are you saying that if we accidently beat the crap out of our dog, then it\'s ok.  Or is it ok to beat our cat only between the hours of 11am - 3pm...

I would never in a billion years beat my dog so I will never go to pieces over it.  My dog is extremely smart.  Knows the names of over 30 toys.  Knows many many tricks.  He\'s the sweetest dog in the world.  If you are going to try and tell me that my dog doesn\'t count in this world and that he\'s "Just an animal" then I would have to say that my dog is a hell of a lot smarter than you are.
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