Gamecube not as powerful as ps2?!?!?!!?

Watchdog: I think you took the wrong turn when you joined these forums..
TeamXbox is that way.. -->

No need for that. While Watchdog may lean towards the Xbox, he is no troll. You don\'t see him starting threads on why the Xbox is supreme do you?

Thanks for the support, guys.  

It may seem like I lean towards the xbox, but I don\'t think I do. Right now I\'m a little high on xbox, but that\'ll pass.  Having both consoles give me the option (and the freedom) to experience the best of both.  Last month I borrowed and loved ICO (much too short though).  This month has been all about Halo and MGS.  I plan on tackling J&D and Amped over Christmas.

This really is the only way to enjoy video games.  I wouldn\'t limit my movies to only Paramount ones, why would anyone want to limit their games in a similar manner?

I agree with you entirely Watchdog, now its time for me to start saving money for a xbox, well since I just got a job it shouldn\'t be to hard

Yes Seven, I know you are notorious for pointing out the technical knowledge flaws of some vetted and professional journalist, but you provide none of your own. You expect us to believe your ramblings and calculations? Give your head a shake.

My ramblings and calculations? Please, rather those of developers who know what they say. You can give me any tech-article that\'s written from some writer, but I\'ll take the opinion and experiences of developers any day. Again, I\'ll say;

Seems to me every time a developer says something negative about Xbox, that their opinion and experiences have to be questioned.

And Square has never said--ever--they would publish for the xbox--this is a rumour and until there is an official announcement you can\'t use it as proof. Besides, since Square is only making games for PS2 now, they would be doing themselves a disservice if they said the hardware made them make sacrifices. Of course they are going to say it lets them fulfill their vision. Again, give your head a shake and use some common sense.

Where did I say it\'s official that Square is developing for Xbox? Where did I use something like that as proof? You sometimes got your head too high up your ass - and if you already put words in my mouth, at least to it right.

I said: "Huh, Square is working on Final Fantasy XI which is supposed to be multi-platform. Great try proving my (his) opinion wrong."

Mark the supposed in my post. Means I am not sure, but it is an assumption. It might not be true, but it could very well be true, since Square said at a few ocassions that they would like FFXI to be multi-console.

It seems to me you have dug up articles from Sony, Naughty Dog and Square--not exactly credible sources when discussing MS.

LOL, I haven\'t even started yet. Where did I use any articles or opinions from Square or ND employees against Xbox? I only used them to prove how much freedom PS2 gives developers and that the polygon counts can be higher then what Sony has posted. Nothing against Xbox here?

If you want to get it right, reread Marconelly\'s post. It said EA and not Square, Naughty Dog or what ever. Now you either believe it or you leave it, but bringing up your x, y and z articles don\'t prove one damn thing if a developer says they can\'t do it practically.

Hahaha , well he atleast post intelligently, I wouldn\'t say the same about teamxbox members

That is debatable.

Originally posted by seven


That is debatable.

Maybe to you, but if you read is his post he never does any bashing and he knows when he is wrong, he holds his own opinions and is a multiple console fan

Originally posted by Bozco



Maybe to you, but if you read is his post he never does any bashing and he knows when he is wrong, he holds his own opinions and is a multiple console fan

Well, I was more thinking about the "well he atleast post intelligently"... but I guess it just gets to me when Watchdog has to bring up old arguments and call me PS2 fanboy on crusade, biggest PS2 zealots around here etc, but yet not back up what he posts and make his arguement/opinion and tech-articles to be better than what developers have said. There is really no chance of debating intelligently with Watchdog, because he fails to admit when he posts something wrong or that Xbox may not be the "superiour in every way" console.

Seven, in a different thread a week or two ago, I brought in about 7 different sources that pretty much crushed your argument.  You didn\'t respond.  I\'m not doing it again.


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Where did I say it\'s official that Square is developing for Xbox? Where did I use something like that as proof? You sometimes got your head too high up your ass - and if you already put words in my mouth, at least to it right.

I said: "Huh, Square is working on Final Fantasy XI which is supposed to be multi-platform. Great try proving my (his) opinion wrong."

Mark the supposed in my post. Means I am not sure, but it is an assumption. It might not be true, but it could very well be true, since Square said at a few ocassions that they would like FFXI to be multi-console.
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*shakes his head*  Square has never said they are making an xbox game, Square has never made an xbox game.  These statements are true.  Now since those statements are true speculating that Square might make a game for the xbox and since they might make a game for xbox they become multiplatform?  

Those comments about FFX being multiconsole were made BEFORE Sony bought up Square stock.  Since then there has been no talk whatsoever.  Square is a Sony only dev and is on VERY good terms with Sony so they say very nice things about the console.

Quotes from sources like these hold very little weight.  Shall I dig up what Lanning said about PS2?  No, I think not.

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LOL, I haven\'t even started yet. Where did I use any articles or opinions from Square or ND employees against Xbox? I only used them to prove how much freedom PS2 gives developers and that the polygon counts can be higher then what Sony has posted. Nothing against Xbox here?
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No, but what are you trying to prove with these sources?  Wait a minute, I\'m going to see what Bill Gates has to say about the xbox--that\'ll get us to the bottom of this once and for all.


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If you want to get it right, reread Marconelly\'s post. It said EA and not Square, Naughty Dog or what ever. Now you either believe it or you leave it, but bringing up your x, y and z articles don\'t prove one damn thing if a developer says they can\'t do it practically.
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Yes, he said

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Some devs are actually repulsed by the XBox\'s unified memory and are claiming that it\'s slowing things down more than they like. Each and every device has to wait for the other device to finish the memory access before it\'s turn. I know an EA developer who\'s flat out claiming that box is actually slowest of all the three for the reason mentioned, and he programs for all three consoles. Also, his experience with x86 architecture is much bigger than with PS2 or GC. XBox definitely produces best graphics, he says, but it\'s slowest... Frankly, I have no idea what to think about all that.
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Hm sounds like an Enquirer article to me.  No article with reference, no mention of a source.  I might as well quote my Aunt Jenny for all the credibility of this guy\'s source--she might not know anything about video games, but she can make a mean minced pie!  In other words it is meaningless.  

Say, just the other day I was talking to Jerry of Activision and he said the PS2 is a POS.  How would you respond to this?  If EA did say something like that I\'m sure there would be posts all over the web with PS2 fanboys dancing in the street.  I\'m looking out my window now and besides the old drunk, no one is out on the street tonight.  Must not have happened.


BTW, Bozco, you won\'t regret it.  The xbox is great and a couple hundred bucks is nothing really.  It is the only way to play (multiconsole that is).

Seven, in a different thread a week or two ago, I brought in about 7 different sources that pretty much crushed your argument. You didn\'t respond. I\'m not doing it again.

I know. I\'ve read those, but if you have been paying any attention to what I\'ve been posting the last few hours in this thread, you will actually see that I judge the opinions and experiences of some developers higher than your tech-theories. One can be easily fooled with calculations which prove theorie x true. You are just betting a bit too much on your credible sources. I think you should pay a bit more attention to what developers say rather than your articles that probably aren\'t even accurate.

*shakes his head* Square has never said they are making an xbox game, Square has never made an xbox game. These statements are true. Now since those statements are true speculating that Square might make a game for the xbox and since they might make a game for xbox they become multiplatform?

Those comments about FFX being multiconsole were made BEFORE Sony bought up Square stock. Since then there has been no talk whatsoever. Square is a Sony only dev and is on VERY good terms with Sony so they say very nice things about the console.

Quotes from sources like these hold very little weight. Shall I dig up what Lanning said about PS2? No, I think not.

Go read for yourself. I posted the link on page 1 in this thread. Be my guest. If you\'re so convinced of your super Xbox, I gladly let you debate it with him rather then me (seing that this is getting us no where).

No, but what are you trying to prove with these sources? Wait a minute, I\'m going to see what Bill Gates has to say about the xbox--that\'ll get us to the bottom of this once and for all.

Sony\'s numbers are being proven accurate by developers, not by Sony. Present your numbers at some developers and they wil tell you they\'re probably ****ed up. But go ahead, ask Billy. I am sure he\'ll make you even more happy and ignorant.

Yes, he said EA thinks blah blah blah. No article with reference, no mention of a source. Therefore, it is meaningless. Say, just the other day I was talking to Jerry of Activision and he said the PS2 is a POS. How would you respond to this? If EA did say something like that I\'m sure there would be posts all over the web with PS2 fanboys dancing in the street. I\'m looking out my window now and besides the old drunk, no one is out on the street tonight. Must not have happened.

That\'s right. Debate it with your tech-articles and if it doesn\'t work - call it meaningless. Typicall and most easy way to get off topic. So let\'s all believe Watchdog, his our ultimate developer (even though no experience yet), he will lead us with his articles and we shall all see the light. Damn the guys (Pitpull Sindicate) who think Xbox doesn\'t have better reflections cause it couldn\'t be done... :rolleyes:

I told you. Get out of your dreamworld and visit some forums with developers. You might be able to pick up some usefull information which weighs more than any tech-article you can find on the internet.

I do read that forum and in the thread you linked to didn\'t one guy say the Firing Squad article was really good?  I remember quoting the Firing Squad article a few times to shoot down your "theories".

At any rate Seven I don\'t care.  That forum is no different from any other--filled with random people.  They could be the guys that get coffee for the dev team or they could be little stuart from down the street or they could be actually who they say they are.

It makes no difference to me.  I can see the difference on the television screen in front of me, and all the long winded BS you can write won\'t change that.  And like I said, if all these "devs" from that forum like the PS2 so much and think it\'s more powerful or has about the same power as the xbox why are their remarks never made public?  Why do they hide in a forum and in anonymity?  Seems dubious to me.  Xbox devs seem to have no shortage of nice things to say or comparisons to make.  And why are your sources always in Sony\'s back pocket (pun intended)--ie Square, Naughty Dog, etc.?

I\'ve said this before, but you remind me exactly of a little DC kid that swore up and down that the DC and PS2 were about even in terms of system power.  He too had his favourite sites that gave him confidence, and I eventually stopped caring.  Is that you tHuNdErFoRc3 who now calls himself Seven?  I wouldn\'t be surprised.  

I\'m now past caring about you and your crusade--like mostly everyone here.  Notice how little support you get--need I remind you we are on a PS2 board?  Take your argument to an xbox board and see how many supporters you find there.

I know, and most people here know too (judging from a lack of responces)  that you are wrong.  You will undoubtedly laugh, perhaps post an "lol" and call me pathetic, but I don\'t care.  If it gives meaning to your small PS2-filled life I\'ll relent: "The xbox and PS2 are about equal in power.  Everyone is wrong except me, Seven and some guys on a tech forum.  Long live PS2."

As the saying goes, "Seeing is Believing".  I have not yet seen the Xbox and will not comment on it.  However, Sony has had a huge head start and after playing Project Eden I have relised that graphics mean nothing...rather look at GAMEPLAY.

Is it true that Halo has slowdown? I also heard it\'s only running at 30fps?  I think it\'s in the IGN review of the game.

Originally posted by fastson
Watchdog: I think you took the wrong turn when you joined these forums..
TeamXbox is that way.. -->

That is the funniest thing I have seen you do on this forum yet. HAHAHAAHA

And as for the discussion xbox games where done in a matter of months and they look as good or better than ps2 games that where in 1-2 years of development. That says a lot for the system.

As for gamecube being less powerful. I don\'t see that the games look awesome. PS2 games look awesome. I think the  true power of ps2 will never be captured no developer will spend the time and money.

Back to original topic:

Yeah, I believed I read at some GC site that mentioned Luigi Mansion and that new Wave racer game have to be traded off with lower resolution due to the special fx to compensate for a decent frame rate.

That doesn\'t sounds very convincing for a new system that is suppose to be so powerful. does it??

As for the Xbox, I haven\'t see it in action yet but judging from the screen shot and reports and the fact it\'s newer hardware, there\'s little doubt it\'s superior hardware to the PS2. But I don\'t believe the improvement is THAT significant...

But, it\'s really the games that counts and when it comes to games, the PS2 is currently king of the hill with all the fab games like GT3,J&D, MGS2, FFIX etc etc.

I don\'t doubt that the Xbox will be a major competitor(in fact, I see PS2 and X-box will take the biggest share of the market for this generation while i really don\'t see any threat from the GC although it\'ll still survive with it\'s niche kiddie market- i mean come on, the thing looks like a damn toy!).

anyway, I thing the upcoming Soul Calibur game will probably be a good comparison between the system but looking at the shots(all versions).....seems like it isn\'t that much of an improvement  over the original SC on the DC either.

yall forgetting one thing its all about soft ware hardware doesnt make money or keep buyers happy so who has better soft ware ps 2 for now but x box wii catch up but they better hurry because sony keeps getting developers cranking out those awesome games like final fantsay x  tell me thats not the prettiest game you have seen this year

I\'ve seen ppl saying that the XBox can to everything the ps2 can. Hehe actually that\'s not true. One effect that I think is pretty important is depth-of-field. That is the effect where you can focus on a person/object on screen and blur the rest. This effect is very, very important if you want to bring your graphics closer to real-life. (still a way off, but..) The nvidia chip don\'t have this effect, but I think the cube has it. This is just ONE thing the PS2 has that xbox don\'t.

One person wrote that he thought that the ATI gfx chip in the cube was similar to the ati\'s pc line cards. This is not right. The \'flipper\' chip was actuallt developed by an independent company who ATI bought after the chip design was finished, but before the cube was released. Everything else he said I totally agree on. *smart chap that one*

[FluKe]