I\'ve gotta stir up the religion pot again..this time

Originally posted by IronFist
Wait, you have given facts to back your argument of "religion has caused more bad then good"?  I don\'t think so.  All you have done is named a couple of bad events that were caused by religion, which happened hundreds of years ago I might add, then completely ignored the good things that religion has done for this world, saying something like (paraphrasing with my own little twist) "the people were responsible for those good acts, not the religion that brought them up to be that way."  The fact that you cannot see the good that religion brings is enough reason for me to believe that you do not know enough about religion.

You want a more modern example of religious conflict, I could give you one.  I was just using some of the most well known and infamous wrongdoings of western religion.  I haven\'t given too much in the way of facts to point to what is wrong with religion, because I am approaching this arguement from a standpoint of defending my views, and not so much attacking yours.  I started in this topic criticizing only the idea that diseases such as cancer were a way to punish sinners.  Then, I saw the question asking non religious people why they don\'t believe in God.  I answered that, and am only trying to explain my reasoning behind that.  If you want me to seriously attack religious views, I\'d rather not do that in this topic.  That always gets out of hand.  Anyone is free to believe whatever they choose to believe.  I\'m simply trying to get across the way I view things.

Another problem is that you are grouping "religion" into one giant category and saying that religion is bad.  That\'s like me saying I think all humans are extremely evil because some humans have done really bad things, or all video games are bad because one person who played his N64 regularly for 8 hours a day died while playing.  The truth is, some religions have not caused wars and other problems with the world.  The LDS church is a great example of that.

There was a reason for that.  As an Atheist, I believe all religions are wrong.  That means that religion does nothing but add ignorance to the world, no matter what religion it is.  It isn\'t like any of the examples you gave really.  It\'s more like if I were to attack video gaming as being evil, and I grouped X-Box, PS2, and Gamecube together.  A religion is a religion, and all of them are wrong.  That\'s what I believe at least.  There aren\'t different degrees of wrong, they are all just simply wrong.

Also, the LDS church (the church I am a member of) believes that no church was true between the time that the apostles were killed (about 100 AD), to the 1820s when Christ\'s church was restored onto this earth.  Surely you can\'t blame my church for the evil acts that happened at the time when we believe no true church was on the earth, can you?

That\'s why I never attacked a certain church.  I attacked religion as a whole.  But honestly, I doubt your church is really any better.  At the very least, it is working to spread an ignorant point of view, and therefor is doing no good.

Originally posted by Disc 2



thats stupidly ignorant.
How can we tell if something is in between changing from one animal to the next, because we don\'t know what the next animal is. Humans have changed form apes, and presumably still changing. Homo-erectus for example, half way between man and apes. Then they developed into homo-sapiens, which are probably slowly developing towards something else. But we don\'t think we\'re in the middle of the change, because "we\'ve always been like this"

if there was wide spread nuclear war, and some humans had developed a way to live freely despite nuclear radiation, all the other humans would slowly die out and these humans would become dominent (thats a very fast example, and unlikely to happen but you get my drift) and thats evolution.

1  2
these animals havn\'t evolved to suit their habitat? I suggest you read up on evolution before making claims that it\'s false

That picture is still a fish.  It\'s not a different animal.  It\'s ADAPTATION!  It adapted to its environment so it could live there.  It did not, however, grow wings, feathers, and hollow bones and fly.

I don\'t FEEL like a monkey, do you?  I still have not seen a species that is a man-ape (where he is in the middle of evolution between ape and man).  There are men.  There are apes.  There are no in-betweens.  How could you be so \'stupidly ignorant\' by believing this nonsense?

I haven\'t given too much in the way of facts to point to what is wrong with religion, because I am approaching this arguement from a standpoint of defending my views, and not so much attacking yours...I saw the question asking non religious people why they don\'t believe in God. I answered that, and am only trying to explain my reasoning behind that.

But the question wasn\'t why don\'t you believe in religion, it was why don\'t you believe in God.  Many people on these forums choose to not believe in a religion yet they still believe that God is real.  In the first part of your post that I quoted and argued against before, you were trying to use problems that religion causes to explain why you don\'t believe in God.  Instead of seeing that as an explanation of why you don\'t believe in God, I saw it as an attack on religions.  I\'m sure you can see the confusion on my part.

The last paragraph of your last post that I replied to, and the last paragraph in your post before that one showed your beliefs of God, so thank you for you reply on that matter.

I doubt your church is really any better. At the very least, it is working to spread an ignorant point of view, and therefor is doing no good.

You "doubt" my church is any better, then you claim it is the one spreading "an ignorant point of view."  Don\'t you see something wrong with that statement?

I’m beginning to think that despite it’s religious over tones, this thread is no more than a keen attempt at raising post counts…


Hmmmmm…


STOP THE SPAM!!!:mad:


If not for yourselves then do it for the children;)

Wow, I only have two other posts in this thread so far. . . a first for me.

I think we should space out the religion threads more.  As we try to be specific, it goes all broad in scope again.  We need more "cool-off time,"  That way we can study more on the previous religion thread, and be more educated in the next.  I say once a thread dies (even though SOME people can\'t let it die. . . you know who you are) we should give a month before the next one.

Okay, actually, I\'m just trying to find a way that I can get out of posting in this thread w/o being a wuss (too late!).  I\'m tired of all this, but the mormons seem to be going strong, and that\'s actually a good thing.  I somethime wish I could keep going, but my head hurts.  Oh wait, that\'s my hangover (j/k).

The End?

Originally posted by Troglodyte
The End?

:eek:


I only wish this were the end of these threads. I agree with ya on one thing Trog, we need a break between threads like this.

Originally posted by -____-

That picture is still a fish.  It\'s not a different animal.  It\'s ADAPTATION!  It adapted to its environment so it could live there.  It did not, however, grow wings, feathers, and hollow bones and fly.

I don\'t FEEL like a monkey, do you?  I still have not seen a species that is a man-ape (where he is in the middle of evolution between ape and man).  There are men.  There are apes.  There are no in-betweens.  How could you be so \'stupidly ignorant\' by believing this nonsense?

the in between died out...the homo-erectus. They were simply not suited and died out, but there is proof that they existed.

Your theory of adaption is evolution. We are "adapted" from apes.
The fish wouldn\'t have "grown wings and flied" because this particular evolution wouldn\'t be beneficial to it. It evolved so that it emmits light underwater, thats pretty spectacular. There is also rather significant proof that all life orignially came from the sea, and so therefore "fish" did evolve into birds with wings

[Titan]

Not at all. I am saying that AIDs was probably caused by people going against God. Unfortunately, AIDs is trasmitted by more than sex. It\'s transmitted through birth and through blood (open wounds) too. But IMO, if it wasn\'t for the sinners, AIDs never would have come onto this world because God never would have had a need to put it onto this world.

So your saying is that God put AIDS on the earth for people who CHOSE (sex to me is a choice of a couple. In the ice age, did people marry to have sex? No) to have sex before and that think that God is non existent? I think they have traced AIDs back to the time when primates were the dominant species ..................er.........millions of years ago. It was evolution that altered genes (like all viruses) and made it attack the body.

No, but those innocent people having AIDs is an unfortunate side effect of the sinners.

Um......ok then. Moving on since this is opposite to what you just said.......

Why aren\'t the rest of us punished with cancer?

Just so you know. I know you think that all of disease was God, scientifically, cancer is a genetic mutation in the cells in specific parts of the body.

And cancer was probably brought onto this world in order to scare people out of using nuclear weapons. Many innocent people get cancer, but this probably wouldn\'t have happened if it wasn\'t for us making weapons to kill our fellow man.

Nuclear power is the cleanest and safest (off topic, i know) and endless source of power. As for nuclear weapons and cancer, nuclear (dammit, lost the word. Just put in a blank so you know that its nuclear something) ______ mutates the cells in the body if not properly stored or radioactive gas is released. The teams at the Chernobyl plant after it exploded, most of them either died from cancer or currently have terrible cancer due to the radioactivity (THATS THE WORD I WAS LOOKING FOR!).

Iron, are you one of those people that say that 9/11 was God\'s way of showing us that we\'re evil? Do you believe in evolution?

Originally posted by Disc 2


the in between died out...the homo-erectus. They were simply not suited and died out, but there is proof that they existed.

Your theory of adaption is evolution. We are "adapted" from apes.
The fish wouldn\'t have "grown wings and flied" because this particular evolution wouldn\'t be beneficial to it. It evolved so that it emmits light underwater, thats pretty spectacular. There is also rather significant proof that all life orignially came from the sea, and so therefore "fish" did evolve into birds with wings

But the fish is still a fish...right?  It will always be a fish.  We will always be human.  We always have.  There is NO proof of an \'in-between\'.

Out of curiosity, why is it always evolution that has to prove its point?  What hard evidence is there for creationism?

Titan, you\'re bringing back a topic that I already admitted to being ignorant about.  I was basing my theory off of nothing, and I should have never even said it.

Iron, are you one of those people that say that 9/11 was God\'s way of showing us that we\'re evil?

Heck no.  I\'m one of those people who believes that this was bound to happen sooner or later in order to go along with the revelations in the Bible and Book of Mormon, and am one who believes that it is only going to get worse before it gets better.

Do you believe in evolution?

I haven\'t thrown out the idea, but I haven\'t agreed with it either.  I do know that we are sons and daughters of God, and that we were created in his image.  I do not know exactly how we came to be, whether Adam actually was the first fully evolved human, or whether Adam came directly from God in the blink of an eye and life began there.  I am leaning more towards directly from God and NOT evolution.  But again, it isn\'t important to my salvation, so why should I or anyone else for that matter waste our time worrying about it?

Troglodyte:

Okay, actually, I\'m just trying to find a way that I can get out of posting in this thread w/o being a wuss (too late!). I\'m tired of all this, but the mormons seem to be going strong, and that\'s actually a good thing. I somethime wish I could keep going, but my head hurts. Oh wait, that\'s my hangover (j/k).

Don\'t worry about it Troglodyte.  Although your input will be missed, you won\'t look like a wuss if you don\'t post here.  Rest up and be ready to join in later in this thread, or ready to start a new thread altogether if this one dies.

Oh, and it\'s just Mormon (singular).  Altered has bailed on these forums (for the most part) and now only comes here once in a blue moon.  I don\'t know if he even reads off topic anymore.  But I wouldn\'t say that the Mormons are going strong without giving credit to the many people here with strong opinions and even stronger debating skills, many of whom having far superior debating skills than my own.  Hopefully the battle will continue with even more controversial and very debatable statements.

Has anybody ever read the last book in the Bible?

Revelations has some good stuff in it. Read it if you want to get a better idea as to what most Christians believe.

(For those that do not have a Bible:)
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=english&version=kjv

Originally posted by luckee
5) Christians believe that if you "mess up," you\'re going to hell.

I have to disagree with that one.  It\'s a struggle everyday to live as a Christian, just b/c you make one sin or fall short of what you knew you should do does not mean you are "in the red" until you do something good again.

1 bad act does not make you  a non-Christian and 1 good act does not make you a Christian.  Your motives and your heart determine that and where you will spend eternity.  Which is a good thing b/c my mouth goes off when I\'m in traffic.

Originally posted by Troglodyte
Wow, I only have two other posts in this thread so far. . . a first for me.

I think we should space out the religion threads more.  As we try to be specific, it goes all broad in scope again.  We need more "cool-off time,"  That way we can study more on the previous religion thread, and be more educated in the next.  I say once a thread dies (even though SOME people can\'t let it die. . . you know who you are) we should give a month before the next one.

Okay, actually, I\'m just trying to find a way that I can get out of posting in this thread w/o being a wuss (too late!).  I\'m tired of all this, but the mormons seem to be going strong, and that\'s actually a good thing.  I somethime wish I could keep going, but my head hurts.  Oh wait, that\'s my hangover (j/k).

The End?

So where does self control come into play? No states that all must participate in a religion thread everytime its posted. IMO, no better than street racers that don\'t know how to turn down a race due to pride or ego.