Game Cube = Brain Washing!

cause they had full motion video! ...what’s that called?...its called a feature that Nintendo failed to meet and thus failed their fan base! many games took advantage of this on the pxs and Nintendo could not meet it (what’s new!)

The stupidity here is astounding.  Look little n00b, go and play Resident Evil 2 on the N64 and if you ever use that FMV arguement again, I\'ll slap you silly.  The only time where FMV REALLY made a difference in how the game was played was with Fear Effect 1 and Fear Effect 2 and those games used FMV in the background straming.  Other then those 2 games, no others used it.  Of course though, you can also try out those FMV only games or the cut-scenes in Warhawk, but I doubt anyone actually enjoyed those mainly because the acting there was terrible.  Even Apcolypse, which motion captured Bruce Willis, failed to meet expectations.  It was still a terrible game.

Other then that, FMV\'s have been used to tell stories and the main games that it is used for is with Square games, but low and behold, even squaresoft avoids that (IE Vagrant Story) as does the best PSX game ever released which was Metal Gear Solid and that game did not have one SHRED of FMV in it.  You can argue the "feature" all you want, but in the end, the N64 had it too and that\'s a fact.

Secondly, backwards compatibility is a nice feature indeed, but no other system does it and yet you only rip on Nintendo.  How many systems actually have done that ever since Atari?  None.  A game library is a good thing to have, but again, it all comes down to the games that are actually worth playing and first and foremost, most people who bought a PS2 also bought a PSX and got their gaming goodness fulfilled there.  The backwards compatibility is a nice feature, albeit underutilized, but I heard some company started making a game that utilized the PSX chipset for some simple AI routine.  I forget which one though.

The amount of titles available for the ps2 console/DVD player is astronomical!

Numbers never interest me.  The PSX has something upwards of 1000 titles last time I heard, but just how many of them were really worth owning?  I\'m betting 30 at most.  Do you see the ratio?  You\'re so interested in numbers, I\'ll even do the math for you:

1:33

For every 1 good game out for the PSX, there\'s 33 others that are worth renting at BEST.  If you think THAT is a good number, then I pity you.  More games is fine, but it\'s a matter of good games that interest me and Nintendo puts out polished titles almost every time.  Why suddenly is that a bad thing?

Well listen here: X-box2 is coming out with an set top digital transmitter to allow for the introduction of standardization of digital TV

Oh yes, that\'s brilliant.  I wonder how that will actually come into play when it comes to me picking up a control pad and playing Halo 3.  It\'s brilliant, really brilliant, how people can want a console based on its extras rather than for the sole purpose of its existance:  GOOD GAMES.

Originally posted by Coke

OH hang on!  cause they had full motion video!  ...what’s that called?...its called a feature that Nintendo failed to meet and thus failed their fan base!  many games took advantage of this on the pxs and Nintendo could not meet it (what’s new!)

FMV doesn\'t hinder gameplay.  It\'s merely another way to deliver a story...not the only way.

Lets examine another short coming in Nintendo’s attempt of dominating the gaming market. Probably the most important factor, that even Nintendo heads have mentioned,...the games.

How many games a system can support is of VITAL importance!!  

How many games a console supports isn\'t as important as to what games it has.  

Backwards compatability is nice but was clearly not an option for GC.  

The moral of this story is this; Nintendo trys hard to follow in the foot steps of is far superior competitors. Even after bringing a system out after the other guys, they still cant compete. The amount of titles available for the ps2 console/DVD player is astronomical!  Nintendo can not, nor will meet such demands that their fan bas puts upon them.

Actually Nintendo has set themselves apart...that\'s quite apparent seeing as how they have a "Quality over Quantity" approach, different art directions in their games, not including a DVD player...

Amazing.  A post that long with pointless info, and false assumptions, and you still didn\'t get a single point across.

Originally posted by Coke


FIRST POINT
---------------
Well, well, well.... lt seems Nintendo is REALLY getting to you son, isn’t it...yeah...

 Firstly lets get some facts straight... Since the evolution of Nintendo, such REDICULOUS statements have been thrown back and forth. The fact kop the matter is, how much data on a disk  DOES matter!! (BIG TIME!!)

I think your confused with the N64 (and lets face it guys, history repeats!)  The N64 in its \'hay day\' wasn’t exactly the most BEEFY data containers was it? lets see... hmm... you could download a ROM version of Mario 64 off the net (not that id waste my time with crappy Nintendo...but word on the street and all..) that’s about the size of 2mb. On the other hand psx games were hundreds of mbs.... why is that?
OH hang on!  cause they had full motion video!  ...what’s that called?...its called a feature that Nintendo failed to meet and thus failed their fan base!  many games took advantage of this on the pxs and Nintendo could not meet it (what’s new!)

But im sure when pxs had that feature all the Nintendo fan boys said something like "We don’t need that crapy full motion video, we have a pure games machine!..yay!!!"  (pathetic!...LOL!!!)

Now what’s happened?...Nintendo have full motion video in their games! Talk about follow the leader..ha ha ha

And that\'s why Nintendo switched to discs for this generation.  Their past choices don\'t have any effect on their current games.

Originally posted by Coke


SECOND POINT
------------------
Lets examine another short coming in Nintendo’s attempt of dominating the gaming market. Probably the most important factor, that even Nintendo heads have mentioned,...the games.

How many games a system can support is of VITAL importance!! I know ps2 supports a backward compatible software component. Thus, allowing for its customers to indulge in 2 generations of gaming pleasure.
..Can Nintendo do this?..well im sure a few Nintendo fan boys are so freakin\' brain washed they\'ve already tried ramming a n64 cartridge into their Game cube ...LOL!!!! (PATHETIC!!!)

Haha... im falling off my chair now laughing at imaging it.
NINTENDO FAN BOY: "Mommy this wont get into my pure gaming machine" (fan boy repeadely raming n64 catridge into game cube disk holder)

MOMMY: "Thats right fan boy, casue its for pure gaming!"

HAHahjahahahaaaaa.........

X-Box isn\'t backwards compatable either, since it had no console predating it.  Why aren\'t you insulting that?  Nintendo changed their format.  Are you saying that\'s a bad thing?  Besides, if you want an N64, just buy one.  You can get them pretty cheap right now.  Your vision of a "fanboy" doing that is one of the saddest things I\'ve heard in a while...on your part.

Originally posted by Coke


CONCLUSION
-----------------
The moral of this story is this; Nintendo trys hard to follow in the foot steps of is far superior competitors. Even after bringing a system out after the other guys, they still cant compete. The amount of titles available for the ps2 console/DVD player is astronomical!  Nintendo can not, nor will meet such demands that their fan bas puts upon them. "Why?"...(I hear you ask). Because they can get away with it. Pure and simple reason guys!... Your brain washed!   Actually the next console they will be bring out will be called \'LA-BOT-A-ME" ...LOL!!!!!! HAHAHAHahahahaha
ahahahahaahahah
MUGhahhahhhhahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

As for who ever keeps going on about their \'pure gaming system\' cr@p. Well listen here: X-box2 is coming out with an set top digital transmitter to allow for the introduction of standardization of digital TV.. Im sure Nintendo fan boys will say its cr@p, then Nintendo will bring one out!@  hahahahaha... (this is toooo SAD!!!)

P.S  Hey Big Daddy! ..feel free to join in on our little debate!!

You say even though they came out after PS2, they can\'t compete, then say the reason is because they don\'t have as many games?  Surely I don\'t need to show even you what\'s wrong with that logic.

The fact that you\'re even talking about X-Box2 now is sad.  It shows that the company is already looking beyond the current system, which just came out really.  There\'s something wrong with that.

And you say that Nintendo can\'t keep up with competitors, then endorse X-Box?  Look at the sales figures.  I think they speak for themselves.  If there is is system out of those two that isn\'t keeping up, it\'s not the Gamecube.

[Living-In-Clip]

Ryu, don\'t feel special about MovingStero e-mailing you, as he sent me a couple PM\'s lastnight after I closed a thread he ruined in Console Discussion.

As for Coke\'s idea about how you could download a ROM of the N64 - on the same note you could download PSone games off FTP sites. What is your point?  And as for your exclusive Xbox2 news, where did you get this? Hell, I\'ll be amazed if MS even wants to make another one (despite what they say) after this generation is over, but that is a whole other debate.

And while we\'re on this subject, you are complaining about the NGC not offering DVD playback , even though it is the cheapest of units.  So, why are you not bitching about MS charging the same as Sony, but still making people shell out another $30 dollars for the actual unit to enable that DVD playback. If I was going to bitch about a company rippin\' people off, I would probably bitch about MS and their idea about including DVD playback.

And while we are at this whole thing and you are bringing up how Sony lead the industry into full motion video...I think you forget the many other cd-based systems before Sony. Pansonic 3DO? Philips CD-I? Sega CD? The list goes on and on. There WAS full motion video before the PSone. Big whoopie!

And if your  idea that backwards compabitlity was vital, than we wouldn\'t be where we are today. It is a nice touch, but not vital and in some cases not possible and in the NGC case it was not an option. What was Nintendo suppose to do? Make the NGC cartridge based, just so they could add backawards compatablity?

Do us a favor Coke and Moving...Please, think before you post this crap, as anything you have posted has been easily knocked down. The funny part of it all is you are on a PS2 board and even PS2 fans realize that you guys are idiots..

Ryu...

Lots of other consoles have been backwards-compatible...

Genesis
Game Gear
SNES
Game Boy Color
Game Boy Advanced

Ashford: True!

Only the two Game Boys were backwards-compatible out of the box though. You needed adapters for the others.

And notice that this means that half of the backwards compatible systems ever made were Nintendo ones.

Nintendo, quite simply, want to give their customers the best value for money available. I mean if the GBC-GBA compatibility isnt enough, then they go and drop the PAL price to £130. And they wouldnt charge extra if there was a DVD player on it, I can assure you.

Look buddy, Nintendo made some mistakes where the N64 was concern. Catridges as we know weren\'t the way to go, yet it is quite astonishing what they managed to do on that hardware. As Ryu pointed out, there are some games that were able to contain FMVs, although they were very expesive to bring on to.

I think Nintendo went the "game-only" machine this generation because it simply did not have the choice. With its later launch date and less experience with DVD-Players (Matsushita has, but I doubt they would support a DVD-console in all territories), it simply needed an edge to even hope to compare against the established leader and the newcomer Microsoft. Going the "gaming-only" route they were able to keep prices low.

Brainwashing? Maybe, but then, any company will do that in order to sell their product. As it seems though, you\'ve been brainwashed by some serious fanboys yourself. See the irony?

[Living-In-Clip]

The "game-only" route was simply the best choice when you consider how crowded the market is now. Going that way let them keep the price low due to the fact they did not include un-needed hardware.

 Now I know some people are goin\' to start bitching about how the NGC disc format doesn\'t hold near as much as a standard DVD , but does it really matter?  So far, developers have not truly taken advantage of the DVD format, \'cept for cinemas - which are overdone in my opinion (once again, another debate for another time). And even if the space is needed the developers can easily add another disc or two to the package and the customer will not pay anymore money than they would for a one disc game, just like the last generation of multi-disc cd games.

As for the comment about history repeating itself with Nintendo. I think that is foolish to say when you look at the past and present circumstances. Nintendo did mess up last generated and opted to go with the cartridge format due to the fact they was scared of piracy. This made for expensive games, high risk for third parties and many more problems. Nintendo has publicly admitted to this mistake and they fixed it this generation. They left the cartridge format and went with the mini-DVD\'s. Yes, it is a propiertary (typo) format but it still does not cost the consumer anymore than a regular DVD.


And finally, I know this point has been touched before, but I am goin\' to mention it one last time. If you are so worried about DVD playback than I suggest you go invest in a STAND-ALONE DVD PLAYER, because the PS2 and Xbox DVD playback is nothing compared to a good stand alone DVD player.

Now I know some people are goin\' to start bitching about how the NGC disc format doesn\'t hold near as much as a standard DVD , but does it really matter? - L-I-C

No, it dosen\'t. Using cartridges on the N64 was a mistake. Not a whole lot of people can deny that, although I don\'t think it degraded the ability to have fun with these games in the slightest. Sure FMV is nice.. but it\'s not a gameplay feature. It\'s not necessarry.. and honestly, most of em are so crappy that they\'re not even enjoyable to watch nine times outta ten. Of course, the one bytching about that is also complaining about not being able to watch movies on the NGC. We all see where his priorities lie. Personally, I don\'t think he deserves any consoles this generation.. since it\'s obvious all he wants to do is watch movies.

Anyhow, back to the point. Even tho the mini-dvd does hold less data than a standard DVD.. it\'s not going to limit games in the slightest. Unlike cartridges, you can pop CD\'s & DVD\'s out at certain points and replace them with the next disk in sequence. Sure, this is going to force Nintnedo and their developers to use more disks for bigger games... but guess what? The games will still sell for a MSRP of $49.99.

BTW Ryu, there\'s quite a few titles on the PSX that use FMV. Final Fanatsy uses it extensively in the backgrounds.. and often mixes gameplay scenes with pre-rendered movies. That\'s jus one example.. and also.. MGS had FMV too. Remeber after Snake saves the ArmsTech president and they\'re talking about the post cold war proliferation of nuclear arms? Or how about Liquid\'s lil triat about cloning and genetics on top of the ruined Metal Gear Ray?

Ok.. so none of it is really necessarry. You\'d be hard-pressed to find a game on the PSX aside from Interactive Movies that have found a way to incorperate FMV video into the actual gameplay. Still tho.. it does have FMV.

You don\'t have to get all bent outta shape arguing with these monkeys.. I think everyone here already knows just how much weight their opinions hold.

Nintendo cuts three costs with the mini-DVD.

A. Production. Supposedly they\'re slightly cheaper than a normal DVD to manufacture.

B. Obviously, every GCN game played on every GCN system is 100% legal. No loss of money to pirates.

C. No need to stream from HDD. Smaller disc, faster loading time. I still think that they really should have included a HDD with the system.. but at least the short seek-time on the mini-DVD fills part of that void. Booya.

Dreamcast died because of people like Coke.

Firstly lets get some facts straight... Since the evolution of Nintendo, such REDICULOUS statements have been thrown back and forth. The fact kop the matter is, how much data on a disk DOES matter!! (BIG TIME!!)

     WRONG! Just look back on the PSX, FF7, 3 disks, also one of the best games of all time. Grandia, 2 disks, a GREAT game. Xenogears, 2 disks, one of the BEST on the psx.


  Those are just a mer 1/100th games that are great with multiple disks.


  Your 2nd statement has a point but its pathetic.....PS2 is the first console to have backwards capability. Most psx owners bought a PS2 and kept their PSX so I dont really care and this doesnt effect the games on the gamecube.


    Youve neen talking about no DVD drive......GET OFF YOU LAZY ARSE AND BUY A DVD PLAYER! Its not that hard just go buy one!



      They Used mini disks to save money. Simple as that. Sure it has less memory but overall if your running the company its a smart decision.



   May I ask how its brainwashing when its just trying to say its console it mainly for game when it IS mainly for gaming.



    Why would Nintendo try to follow a fellow competitor. Nor have I seen it try to follow the same path of the PS2. PSX- More mature and Disk, N64- Not as mature and cartridge. Ps2- Disk, DVD Mature. NGC- on the path to be Mature (re, ed, ect) No dvd mini disc.


   As you can see there is no indication of Nintendo trying to follow the competition.


   Atleast I have heard someone beat the crap out of someone Because they lost to someone in Super Smash Bro.



  Give me a break Coke..... you cant tell what B****ing is? And you accually expect us to agree with an idiot like you!?


   This argument you have started here is based on nothing more that since GC doesnt have extra stuff that has nothing to do with gameing its a horrible system. And if you dont like the gaming library too bad! Millions of other people DO! Your points are idiotic and very small problems with the system. If you want to bash a system try X-Box. 3/4 of their games are PC games I dont see you crying about that.



          Me and most other gamers would choose very good games (platformers on GC, RE, Metroid, ect.) Over some silly ports.



           Dont cry to us about what you think of a system its all your opinion! We really could care less if you think Nintendo is trying to brainwash us.(Idiotic remark) Or if you are going to cry in your little ine cornered house about GC not having DVD or CD capability.


      You also said youve never played a GC but you still are able to say its games suck and it sucks. Now thats SAD.




       Your posts in this thread have been repeating themselves and becoming more idiotic from one to another just stop trying to brainwash us into think GC is trash because it sure isnt. I myself own a GC and im very satisfied. I also own a PS2 so I dont have to cry about DVD or CD or no backwards capadabilty. DOnt post such ignorant crap you stupid noob.



    I rest my case. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Nintendo cuts three costs with the mini-DVD.

A. Production. Supposedly they\'re slightly cheaper than a normal DVD to manufacture.

B. Obviously, every GCN game played on every GCN system is 100% legal. No loss of money to pirates.

C. No need to stream from HDD. Smaller disc, faster loading time. I still think that they really should have included a HDD with the system.. but at least the short seek-time on the mini-DVD fills part of that void. Booya.

Blade, I disagree:

A: what makes you think production of this "mini cd" is cheaper than that of a DVD?

B: Agreed.

C: What makes you think a disc with smaller radius has a significant higher transfer rate? Unless you know the actual data transfer rate, this is pure speculation of how much faster it is than a CD/DVD drive. And btw; no matter how big the radius of your disc is - it will never be able to compete against the transfer rate of a HD.