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Author Topic: Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)  (Read 11886 times)

Offline clowd
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2002, 06:50:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by shockwaves


Yes, you are.  You argue theories, and often baseless ones as facts.  You ignore evidence detracting from your opinions, and have an attitude that you are superior to everyone else here, and you insult and belittle others who argue much more effectively and logically than you do in the first place.

As for the thread, you\'re right Vid.  Why not just say that Clowd can\'t participate then?  You could always delete his posts.


All good well and besides the point.  

I have done nothing negative to this thread.  Until I do so you have no reason to delete my posts.

Offline shockwaves
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2002, 07:03:22 PM »
Fine, then don\'t.  Also, don\'t refer the discussion to prior threads which were closed for a reason.
.::§hockwave§::.

Offline ROL Jamas
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2002, 07:55:43 PM »
Then maybe we should just stop reinacting threads as a whole.

Part 1. Get a good religion topic stirred up
Part 2. Clowd gets involved with theories that everybody hates him for
Part 3. Everybody dismisses Clowd as an idiot and argues everything he has to say.
Part 4. Get the thread closed after it grows to an astronomical size
Part 5. Repeat at a later date

Seems to work, apperantly.

See Yuz.
What do Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Matt Clement, and Carlos Zambrano have in common?

They\'re the pieces to the next great pitching rotation of our time, what else?

GO CUBS!

Offline Ryu
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2002, 09:22:42 PM »
Clowd - stop reincarnating old threads in new ones.  Leave your views and "Scientific facts" out of here and just plain stop posting in this thread or I\'ll remove your ability to view off-topic altogether.

Titan - stop coaxing clowd into reposting his nonsense.  We don\'t need to hear about it again.  The more you instigate it, the more he\'ll want to post.

Shockwaves - like Titan, just stop posting about Clowd or his views.  It just makes him want to reply even further.

As for this thread, out of respect for Rya and Ironfist, about the the only two people having a meaningful discussion, I will allow this thread to remain open.  Anymore outbursts concerning clowd or matters of which came first, the chicken or the egg, will be deleted and their off-topic privilidges removed for a week.  That is all for now.  I consider this matter closed.  If anyone has a problem, PM me; the box is empty.
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #79 on: November 04, 2002, 12:39:09 AM »
You know, no matter how much people debate this. There\'s never gonna be a TRUE answer. It\'s all about personal preference. You either believe in god, or you don\'t. Once someones made up there mind. It\'s pretty hard to change it. :)
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Offline Titan

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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #80 on: November 04, 2002, 02:02:55 PM »
I have to agree with souly on this one. The human mind has a tendancy to be stuborn. Once someone is into religion, they can only dismiss it through their own free mind. No one can force them what to believe. We can\'t force IronFist or clowd into atheism. They can only chose with their own free will. You can only give reasons for what the other person says could be false and visa versa. But hey, its still fun argueing :)
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Offline IronFist
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #81 on: November 04, 2002, 03:21:24 PM »
Well I didn\'t start this thread to prove a belief, or force a belief on someone else.  I started it so we could openly discuss the different beliefs of people on this forum and why we believe what we believe.  I also started this thread to challenge other members of this forum, and to be challenged myself, with questions pertaining to our beliefs.  I hope this thread can continue as it was meant to be, and not branch off into thousands of petty arguments about who started what, who\'s forcing what, who\'s being ignorant about what, etc.

Now shall we continue? :)  (Hey Racer, I haven\'t seen you for a while; still waiting for how you interpret the verses that I posted.)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2002, 03:38:34 PM by IronFist »
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Offline Toxical
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #82 on: November 04, 2002, 03:21:34 PM »
Religion is shit, ... now lets move on.. who likes pizza?

Offline Rya
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #83 on: November 04, 2002, 07:57:40 PM »
To IronFist:
Quote
When we are following Christ\'s teachings, and doing the "right" things, we will be happier people than if we are doing the wrong things.


I absolutely agree with this statement!  When we do the right things, we will be happier.  But, what must be realized is that not only are Jesus\' teachings good, philosophers before and after him have good teachings as well and thus, righteous inspiration doesn\'t necessarily come from Christ exclusively.  The philosophy of Buddhism states that "any thougts, speech or actions that are rooted in giving, love and wisdeom and thus help clear the way to Nirvana are good."  Non-Christian religions have been found to preach goodness suh as Wiccan.  Each spell is like the embodiment of the universal Golden Rule (I say universal because it\'s found in all cultures and no matter how it\'s worded it still means the same thing): Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

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I can\'t wait until I can find a girl who I can marry and grow old with. I agree that that is happiness. I don\'t know how close you and Ryu are, if you are just really good friends, or if you are actually close enough to consider marriage (I don\'t think it\'s any of my business either ),


Let\'s just say that my relationship with Ryu is close enough to the point that I can pick his nose without feeling embarrassed or grossed out, and we know each other\'s likes and dislikes so well that we can use the facts against each other in stupid, silly arguments.  :p

[Ed. Note: She\'s telling the truth.  I actually have a picture of her gleefully picking my nose.  What a Sicko. :p -Ryu]

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but I do know that in a lot of people\'s beliefs, after this life that kind of happiness will be gone. According to many people, after this life we either cease to exist (those are the beliefs of people who don\'t believe in God),


I don\'t believe in God, yet I don\'t think that we\'ll cease to exist.  Here\'s my thoughts on this subject: We all have a spirit.  My theory is that it\'s much like what Christians view as a soul, only we\'re not damned from the beginning.  Let me switch gears a little bit.  In science, there are a lot of things that work with magnetics.  We\'ve got the magnetic fields of planets and the sun.  There\'s a magnetic force between the planets and the sun.  There\'s regular magnets that we have on our refridgerators.  =P  Both natural and manmade things have magnets.

So with this in mind, going back to the subject of souls, our lives are magnetised to one other person on this Earth because we are part of the natural things of the universe, of Earth.  Some people will find that person and some people won\'t, but it\'s all a matter of how much effort that was put into the search.  For those who divorced, it\'s a matter of not attaching themselves to the other person the right way (like if you put magnets together on their midsections, they move all funny or they were attached with a piece of paper in between).  Those who get married a second time have strong magnetism and can attract many more people (so you can guess how strong of a personality Elizabeth Taylor has!  :D)

When we die, it\'s just our hollow bodies that die.  It\'s like a computer --  Computers are bought, they are used, and they they are worn out.  There could be parts that are still usable in it, but it\'s mostly gone;  Too dusty, too warn out.  So you can extract those missing parts and throw away the rest.  Our bodies get worn out so our souls are naturally extracted from the organics.  The organic part is returned to nature because we are a part of it.  Our soul gets recycled in the next life that is to be born.  Then we start the quest in finding our magnetic partner.  So happiness doesn\'t fade.  The game of looking for the one we\'re meant to be with starts over again, so the fun always stays.

[Ed. Note: Does that mean it\'s game over for us since our search is over?  So far, I like the ending if it is.-Ryu]

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So I guess to answer to your last question, "why would we need to find further happiness when we\'re already in bliss?" It\'s because that kind of happiness is not forever.


Sure it can.  In your theory, it can because it\'ll continue onto heaven and in my theory it can because it\'ll be renewed after each meeting.  Think of a couple -- Their relationship brings happiness.  There\'s a huge argument leading to poor Mr. Guy to sleep in the dogless doghouse because Ms. Girl has had enough of Mr. Guy.  Later, Mr. Guy and Ms. Girl make up.  But that argument doesn\'t tarnish their relationship forever.  Their relationship continues to be happy.  Happiness is happiness, even if it doesn\'t last forever.  The fact that it existed is permanent.

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If they are living a worthy life, then there is no reason for them to fear god. If they are living a sinful life, then they have every reason in the world to fear god, and have every reason in the world to not want to believe in him.


You\'re right, a person living a worthy life has no reason to fear god, but when that worthy person doesn\'t believe in god, there\'s nothing to worry about.  It\'s like if a person doesn\'t believe in vampires, then he doesn\'t have to worry about putting up garlic or getting his blood sucked because there\'s nothing to worry about.  And I think that a person who isn\'t living a worthy life has every reason to fear everything including god, life, society, a rat, etc. :p

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(for example, I don\'t know if we evolved from monkeys, or if we were put here directly from God with the snap of the fingers.


I agree with everything you said before this quote.  I can understand that people just straight up need an answer to questions as we\'ve been discussing and they\'d go searching for God or some other source to find this answer.

But the quote I have put above, this is a silly question for me to ask (kinda like does Adam and Eve have belly buttons), do you think, that since God created animals before humans, he might have taken the monkey and the 24 hours on the 6th (?) day to evolve the monkey into Adam, leaving the traces of pre-primate remains to piss us off so he can get a good laugh?  Or maybe he was in the process of making man when the wooly mammoth crossed his field of vision and created a creature in the shape of a human (arms, legs, face structures), but made it hairy?  Maybe he swore a little after that and then decided to cool off for a day and continue his work the next day when he did make Adam correctly?  If this offended you, I apologize.  During one winter break party Ryu was holding, Ryu and I asked our Christian friend questions like these and found them amusing, but when I asked questions like these to another Christian friend, he was offended and I\'m not sure how well you\'d take it, Ironfist. :confused:

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No matter what the perception of truth is, the truth will always be the same.  There are thousands of different religions on the world today teaching many different things about who and what God is, but even with all of these different beliefs, God is still who he is. No matter what we say about him, he will always be the same.


I\'ll agree that Christianity, as a whole, has one God that is the same, but everyone looks at him differently.  But maybe one of the other religions that existed before Christianity has truth in it too.  There\'s a reason why there are religions that are older than Christianity still in existance today.

To be continued...
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Offline Rya
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #84 on: November 04, 2002, 07:59:02 PM »
a continuation...

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That is why you have to get the information from the followers (who you can\'t trust), then ask God if it is true.

Isn\'t that kinda like a double standard?  ;)  What if one were to go searching for God but decides not to follow a church?  Is that allowed?  O_o
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God has said that he cannot lie, so if you ask him, his answer will be completely true.

How will you know you got an answer if no mortal can hear his voice without having his head implode (that\'s what I heard can happen).
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With this question, you can\'t group all of the Christian churches into one category. Because some Christian churches believe in what you said, while others believe something different. My church believes that this life is a test, and also a preparation period for the next life to come. Here on this life we have certain things we needed to have done (like getting a physical body), and things we have to do (like baptism, and eternal marriage in a temple). Because no unclean thing can dwell with God, this life is like a test. If we are worthy in the end, if we pass the test, we will be able to live with God once again. If we are not worthy, we fail the test and will never be with our Heavenly Father again.

I\'ve never heard this before.  Thank you for the enlightenment.  :D
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I guess that even non-believers need to find their place and purpose in this world.

It\'s human nature to find a place and purpose in the world.  The Native Americans have long believed that they are part of Mother Nature and that every creature is a brother or sister.  Buddhists believe that even insects and spiders have the same right to live as humans do.
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One major one is because you all are my brothers and sisters. I believe that I knew you before we were born on this world (as a spirit in the spirit world) and that I cared for you all then. I do not want to go into the next life only to find out that one of my favorite brothers or sisters didn\'t make it because I failed to teach the gospel to them. That would brake my heart. Even though you all are just names on the internet, I love each one of you as brothers and sisters.

So do you think that the Pope Pius XII embraced Hitler as his brother even though Hitler acted against one of the Ten Commandments of not to kill?  And how about Osama bin Laden?  Did Christians fail him too?
And as broters and sisters in this world, why don\'t we see massive groups of Christians helping out the homeless?  Why are there still homeless people looking for a doorway to sleep in for the night when, as a sibling, it would be logical to take the homeless person into one\'s own home and help that person back on his feet.  With the Christians as the majority of the world\'s population, we shouldn\'t even see a homeless person on the street if we were to act as a family.
And as siblings, wouldn\'t you want what\'s best for me?  Let\'s say that different beliefs are different schools of teachings.  I want to go to UC San Diego because I think it\'ll suit me well.  You or any other Christian wants me to go to UC Berkeley.  Why would you want me to go to UC Berkeley when I know I\'m not going to fit in because of what I believe?  I don\'t want to have protests interrupting my path of going to my next class.  I don\'t want to go to a school that has standards that I can\'t possibly agree with.  Wouldn\'t a sibling accept and respect a sister\'s decision despite how much a sibling thinks it\'s a bad choice?
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Their salvation depends on it. ...I guess I would define salvation as "Making it to the highest degree of heaven, and in turn, having eternal life."

So taking from what you\'ve said, a person who doesn\'t believe in heaven doesn\'t need salvation.
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Are you sure these missionaries were/are from the LDS church?

Yup.  Pretty sure.  I was stopped by one missionary at school on my way home (or my way to class?) and he introduced himself and had a name tag.  I can\'t remember if he had said that he was from the LDS.  But after a couple of weeks, some missionaries, who were from the LDS, were going door to door in my neighborhood and asked if I had spoken to one of their representatives.  I questioningly mentioned my school\'s name to see if they know of anybody who was missionary-ing (?) there and he mentioned the name of the dude I spoke to at school.
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1. Young people going door to door preaching the gospel are a lot more, how should I say it, "convincing" than a 40 year old man would be. I think people would be more intimidated if 40 year old fat guys were trying to teach them about the church.  With first impressions meaning so much these days, it just wouldn\'t be as effective.

Wouldn\'t this be considered selling the religion?  Trying to make it look attractive so people would join up?  Kinda like "Hey our guys look cute; wanna date him?  Join our church!"
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3. At such a critical time in their lives, it is helpful for them to serve the Lord and have the Holy Ghost as a constant companion. It helps them put a priority on their lives.

I\'ll have to admit that this is really good training in testing and practicing your faith! :D  BTW, define the Holy Ghost.  I ask a bunch of people and I get this weird answer from everyone I ask.
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My church believes that when Christ died, his church was completely wiped off the face of the earth. His apostles were killed (most of them in horrible ways), and the priesthood, and the different keys of that priesthood were no longer on the earth. The remaining members of the church apostatized and formed their own churches. Many Christian religions (like the Catholics if I recall correctly), will agree that the church apostatized, but they say that the priesthood was still carried on through the past 2000 years by worthy priests. Of course they are not able to actually show this. My church believes that from about 500 AD, to 1830 AD, there was no true church on the earth. Then Christ\'s church was restored on the earth in 1830, under the name of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Again, extremely enlightening!  I never knew this before.  :)

Again, IronFist, much thanks for your input and sharing your knowledge.  =)  I was hoping to make this response a little light hearted and I hope you (or any other Christian for that matter) don\'t get offended by what I said.

To Soul:
Quote
It\'s all about personal preference. You either believe in god, or you don\'t. Once someones made up there mind. It\'s pretty hard to change it.

I agree with your statement...it\'s all a matter of preference.
And back to IronFist:
Quote
I started it so we could openly discuss the different beliefs of people on this forum and why we believe what we believe.

I agree with this statement...education-GOOD! *thumbs up*
And though she be but little, she is fierce.

~William Shakespeare

Offline clowd
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #85 on: November 05, 2002, 01:51:53 PM »
Lets discuss religion.

Some religion believes the Earth was made in 6 24 hour days.  This is not true simply because of this scripture at Genesis 2 : 4

"This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created,  in the day* that God made earth and heaven.

*bold added

As you can see the entire creation of everything is summarized as a \'day\' or a span of time.  Not 24 hours

Offline Titan

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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #86 on: November 05, 2002, 02:01:00 PM »
If God created Earth in 6 days, what created God? Was he an alien that was doing an experiment to see how life turned out? Is he a supreme human that made us after him? Is he dead? Is he alive? Did he create all the stars and galaxies and planets in other star systems? Is he the one who gave us fire? (don\'t expect to answer these, just something to ponder :) )
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Offline clowd
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2002, 02:40:22 PM »
What caused the big bang? (dont expect to answer this,  just something to ponder)

Offline Titan

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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #88 on: November 05, 2002, 02:47:28 PM »
Hydrogen gas and other materials were under so much pressure that it burst :) Like a dam or when you sqeeze a tube of toothpaste. Things have a tendancy of blowing up.

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Don\'t expect to answer these, just something to ponder :)

I said that ^ so you don\'t have to post. You could think about that if you want. You don\'t have to be such an ass about it.
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Offline clowd
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Religious Discussion 101 (See page 7)
« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2002, 02:53:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Titan
Hydrogen gas and other materials were under so much pressure that it burst :) Like a dam or when you sqeeze a tube of toothpaste. Things have a tendancy of blowing up.


I said that ^ so you don\'t have to post. You could think about that if you want. You don\'t have to be such an ass about it.


Where did the hydrogen gasses come from?  What compressed them?

I dont have to think about what you said.  The answer to those questions is quite simple.  God said I am the alpha (beggining) and the omega (end) before God there was nothing,  just God.   See you were created to be able to concept a beginning,  while your creator had none.  So you think everything has a beginning.  I think some evolutionists even say that the Universe had no beginning?  You on the other hand have no answer,  just what you speculate MUST have happened since a creator is \'unacceptable\'

Your just like the scribes and pharasies who didnt care about the answers they were asking Jesus for but just wanted to find some fault in him.  I dont even know why I bother answering you.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2002, 02:56:20 PM by clowd »

 

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