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Author Topic: Time  (Read 724 times)

Offline SirMystiq

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Time
« on: July 08, 2003, 07:42:13 PM »
Im pretty sure this has already been discussed. But...

If I go back in time and kill my great-grandfather, will I have been born to have gone back in time to kill my great-grandfather?
Don\'t try to confuse me with what you call  facts, my mind is already made up.

Offline PSX_J
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Time
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2003, 08:41:34 PM »
The question is, would you dissapear if you traveled back in time, before you were born?

Now if you actually didnt dissapear and killed your grandfather or w/e, then ofcourse you couldnt be born...nor could one of your parents.


*EDIT* Oh wait, I just read your topic more throughly, thats a huge brain teaser....hmm I guess to kill your grandfather you\'d have to be born right.......this just proves that time travel is immpossible or ppl would come from the future.
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Offline SirMystiq

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Time
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2003, 08:48:36 PM »
The first is that the past is totally unalterable. Simply put--everything that has happened or must happen, including the time traveler\'s attempt to kill his great-grandfather, cannot be altered and nothing will change the course of history. In other words, the time traveller will experience a series of endless blunders in trying to kill his great-grandfather, and will never achieve the murder. Therefore, time will remain with it\'s series of events virtually intact.
The second possibility is more complex and involves the quantum rules which govern the subatomic level of the universe. This is when the time traveller kills the great-grandfather, and it follows that he creates a new quantum universe. More commonly, a parallel universe where the young great-grandfather never existed and where the time traveller is never born. This becomes the second universe and the original universe still remains the same.
Having explained these paradoxes, the question now becomes: "How does one travel through time?" The only way is to travel at speeds faster than the speed of light. The obvious problem with traveling very near the speed of light is that as you approach C which is the speed of light, time slows down. Then at C time stops. But how can one go faster if time has stopped?
Once the velocity becomes greater than C time moves backwards. This is were we come to the area of negative time.
In essence, all of this involves linear time. In linear time, you can\'t go back and change things. But what if time is not linear?



My friend asked me that question and then he showed me his response. Makes sense to me.  But wouln\'t that imply that the past, present, and future are occuring at the same time? If someone is able to travel to the past, that means the past must still be going on in order for that person to travel there. Also, that could mean that when we look at planets far away, we might be looking at their "future" b/c of the distance and the time it takes for light to get there.........
« Last Edit: July 08, 2003, 08:51:05 PM by SirMystiq »
Don\'t try to confuse me with what you call  facts, my mind is already made up.

Offline AlteredBeast
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2003, 09:04:22 PM »
Yeah, good explanation above.

If you are able, the universes would split and be parallel to each other with just that being different, no him, no you.

the past, present, and future don\'t all occur at the same time. The past is set. The present is never but the future is a possibility. but then of course, if you faster than the speed of light, the universe shrinks to a sliver and you wold probably shoot outside of it, since you wouldn\'t know where to stop, if you even could.

of course everything is theory and such.

Recommended reads are A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawkins

and Recommended viewing: Bill and Ted\'s Excellent Adventure.



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Offline SirMystiq

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Time
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2003, 09:11:49 PM »
What if time isn\'t linear though.
    Since the time we know is \'man-made\', then let us say that time is linear. Everything goes or moves in a forward motion from the present to the future. When we remember what happened, then it is considered the past.
    Now, let\'s examine time as it really presents itself.
    Some time ago (the past)...a history teacher told me that the past is happening right now. I asked him what he meant by that. His response was, "The past, present and future are happening as we speak."
    It\'s true. At this very moment, the past, present and future are interwoven. Therefore, time is not linear. Although, if you watch a clock\'s second hand, time passes in a linear forward direction. But, for one millisecond, that second hand is stationary--without a past, present or future....Or, with a past, present and future interwoven.
    Science is not exact. Another teacher once said that the word \'hypothesis\' is very imperative to science. It gives science the room for conjecture. That creative element that Albert Einstein so often used.
    Relativity speaking, past and future:
    A planet that we see through a telescope at this very moment has already evolved some millions of years ago. We are looking at that planet\'s future in our present since it\'s distance determines the time frame.
    A photograph captures a present time of an instant long past.
    Our mind plays the time game during the day, and at night when we dream....The subconscious is such an amazing repository.
    Okay, now on to the hypothesis.
    Albert Einstein\'s theory of relativity suggests that time slows down when travelling near the speed of light. So, if an object travelled at the speed of light (300,000,000 m/s) then time would stop completely. Just like in a photograph. Exceeding the speed of light may cause the whole process of travel to revert itself, and you would actually be traveling backwards in time. At this point, it is impossible to reach the speed of light since we are merely living in a prehistoric world compared to the \'man-made\' future. At this point, the only known substance that can achieve this feat is the Tachyon.
As of today, Tachyonic Acceleration is the only way to travel through time. Accelerating the Tachyons past the speed of light would result in a backwards time motion. But, tachyons are not people. We have to travel in something to get anywhere. The machine that will take us to the past or the future needs some consideration. It hasn\'t been built yet. Of course, there is the exception such as dimensional rifts. What if that dimensional rift existed? How do we find it? Where is that Vortex to propel one into the past or future?


More ^^

Ok well let\'s say you can travel to the past and kill your grandpa...Wouln\'t that have already happened if you came from the future. If your past was that you killed your grandpa, then whatever you do in the future must have not been affected by going back to the past. Because since your from the future, going back to the past WAS your past..........i think im way off though.....

Also if you go back to the past and see something, go back to where you belong, would you remember going back to the past? And was it your future remembering going back to the past?
Don\'t try to confuse me with what you call  facts, my mind is already made up.

Offline Stupid Mop
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2003, 09:25:44 PM »
It must be one evil dude if you travel back in time to kill your great grandfather
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Offline AlteredBeast
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2003, 10:01:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirMystiq
What if time isn\'t linear though.
    Since the time we know is \'man-made\', then let us say that time is linear. Everything goes or moves in a forward motion from the present to the future. When we remember what happened, then it is considered the past.
    Now, let\'s examine time as it really presents itself.
    Some time ago (the past)...a history teacher told me that the past is happening right now. I asked him what he meant by that. His response was, "The past, present and future are happening as we speak."
    It\'s true. At this very moment, the past, present and future are interwoven. Therefore, time is not linear. Although, if you watch a clock\'s second hand, time passes in a linear forward direction. But, for one millisecond, that second hand is stationary--without a past, present or future....Or, with a past, present and future interwoven.


The hand may not be moving, but the gearsinside are. Time is never present and the past is untouchable. Time is man-made, that much is true. But how could going the speed of light change things that have already happened. I could see the theory in the future, but the past just doesn\'t cut it. it is set in stone.

When we view a planet, we are viewing the planet\'s past. I don\'t know how you could get future out of that. We are getting the light reflected off that planet from a start (or the light from the star itself) in that very instance in the time in light years (how far light can travel in one year) it took to come to Earth. Like Alpha Centauri is the closest star to the Earth (not counting the sun) and what we see of it every day is what actually happened 3.6 years ago (I think it is 3.6 light years away, science class was so long ago! :p).

If you were going faster the speed of light wouldn\'t you be going in the future? Everything else is going at normal speed, but time doesn\'t exist for you on a measurable scale. So you go on this paper thin universe over the speed of light (theoretically impossible, but necessary for time travel) in one spot (since the faster-than-light-universe has no size) for x amount of time, after coming out of it, the world should\'ve advanced y amount through ttheir own time. You wouldn\'t age and everyone else would.

I don\'t know if I am explaining this very clear or not.
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Offline Deadly Hamster
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2003, 10:44:30 PM »
My head hurts now :(

Im grasping most of this except how going faster then the speed of light would send you into the futurue...

wouldnt then earth time advance mere seconds, while, at the speed of light, you travel the univerese, and return, in those seconds? O.o

maybe im just too  confused, sorry.
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Offline Kurt Angle

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Re: Time
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2003, 12:59:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Im pretty sure this has already been discussed. But...

If I go back in time and kill my great-grandfather, will I have been born to have gone back in time to kill my great-grandfather?


I am sure Doc Brown and Marty Mcfly will be able to answer your question.;)

Offline Seed_Of_Evil
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2003, 03:10:25 AM »
It\'s a little stupid to discuss about things that cannot be performed, isn\'t it?
Todas estas cosas se perderán en el tiempo como lágrimas en la lluvia.

Offline videoholic

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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2003, 03:19:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Adan
It\'s a little stupid to discuss about things that cannot be performed, isn\'t it?



Well we still have several hundred post discussions on religion.:banghead:


How about this guy?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/07/07/mute.no.more/


You think he knows aything about time travel?  I mean he still lives in 1984.
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Offline Seed_Of_Evil
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2003, 03:24:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by videoholic
How about this guy?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/07/07/mute.no.more/


You think he knows aything about time travel?  I mean he still lives in 1984.


What this has to do with time travel? He\'s retarded. I also have a neighbour with a similar problem. There is a difference between go to past and think you\'re in past.
Todas estas cosas se perderán en el tiempo como lágrimas en la lluvia.

Offline CHIZZY

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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2003, 03:49:21 AM »
all I have to say is...

Where is bossieman when you need him?
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2003, 05:11:06 AM »
If in the present time got into a time travelling machine and went back to 1940 and killed Hitler, would I want to kill Hitler in 2003 if he is already dead by myself?No.That means I ve never went back to time to kill him because there is no reason to(he is already dead).But then....who killed Hitler if I never got back in time to kill him?

Confusing isnt it?

Offline videoholic

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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2003, 06:30:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Adan
What this has to do with time travel? He\'s retarded. I also have a neighbour with a similar problem. There is a difference between go to past and think you\'re in past.


It has nothing to do with it, but my head blew up from reading posts from the dude he can\'t find a job and I thought it was a fascinating story.  It\'s kind of like time travel.  Dude thinks he is in 1984.  That\'s a long ass coma.
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